I got into Caltech a week ago and am anxiously waiting on Princeton, so I may be counting my chickens before they hatch. But I couldn’t resist.
I am heavily leaning towards studying math, getting a PhD, and becoming a professor. Math rankings always put Princeton above Caltech, and when people list top math schools they always say Princeton and often leave out Caltech. Why?
I assume the strength of a school’s undergrad math education can be judged using the following criteria:
Faculty
Research opportunities
Student body
Class offerings
Teaching quality
2 and 4 seem comparable while 1 and 5 seem marginally better at Princeton. I am not sure about 3.
What am I missing? Is math at Princeton really much better? Should I make my decision based on nonacademic factors? If so, I’d probably choose Caltech since its intensity appeals a lot to me.
“Math rankings always put Princeton above Caltech”
Are you sure you are not looking at graduate department rankings? Caltech’s undergraduate math offerings appear to be among the strongest in the country.
An evaluation like the following wouldn’t seem substantive enough to base a decision on, but it is one ranking-type compilation that is specific to undergraduate programs and includes Caltech, but not Princeton, in its math section: “Great Schools for 20 of the Most Popular Undergraduate Majors” / The Princeton Review.
Oh, I am looking at grad rankings. That would change things. But people do seem to hold Princeton’s math, including undergrad, in very high regard, usually higher than Caltech. It’s hard to shake off.
Caltech’s students enter with the highest (CR+M) scores in the country. Their 25th percentile level is a noteworthy 70 points higher than the 2nd place school. This is a case, however, where Caltech’s small undergraduate population should be taken into account.
@merc81 I do think the average Caltech student is stronger than the average Princeton student, particularly at math. But I would guess that the strongest Princeton students are comparable, if not stronger, than the strongest Caltech students. At any rate, I would not expect enough difference to influence my decision.
What do you think Caltech having the highest percentage of math majors who go on to get PhD’s says about their math program?
I agree with your analysis of the statistical attributes of the students at the respective schools.
“What do you think Caltech having the highest percentage of math majors who go on to get PhDs says about their math program?”
This is actually not my favorite statistic, in that it fails to account for graduates who have simply decided to pursue opportunities that do not involve PhD studies. However, in your case, considering your stated goals, it does indicate that Caltech, at a minimum, would be entirely suitable for you along these lines.
The book, “Surely You’re Joking, Mr. Feynman!” recounts the Nobel laureate’s experiences at Caltech, and may be of interest to you at this time. For Princeton, there’s “This Side of Paradise,” of course, along with its references to conical structures.
Feynman was at Princeton too He was a grad student there. His experiences seem to agree with widely-held perceptions of each school, but that was a long time ago, and I expect things have changed.
Interestingly enough, Feynman did his undergrad at MIT, grad at Princeton, and taught at Caltech, and MIT, Caltech, and Princeton have always been my top three choices. (Though the order has changed many times.) MIT rejected me, so I can’t follow exactly in his footsteps, but maybe I can do some permutation of the three. Of course, that would be quite hard. But it’s fun to dream
Your denial at MIT simplifies your possible permutations by an order of magnitude. However, should you ever decide to introduce Cornell to the set – where Feynman also taught and from which he delivered his most famous lecture series – your complexity would be restored.
Also Feynman was a physicist… He just happened to be ok @ math, but I don’t think his thinking was that of a mathematician… Not sure if you wanna follow his footsteps for math haha.
For undergrad math, I’m pretty sure in terms of prestige they are comparable. I would just try to get feedback from math undergrads from there to see if the quality of instruction is good, and the environment is good.
He was a grad student there. His experiences seem to agree with widely-held perceptions of each school, but that was a long time ago, and I expect things have changed.