<p>Princeton's graduate math program is known to be the best in the country. But how is its undergraduate program? Is there opportunity to do high level math research with professors? How does it stack with other schools with good math programs like UC Berkeley or caltech.</p>
<p>How big of a difference does the undergraduate experience for a math major make?</p>
<p>If you are planning to major in math, you better really like math. It’s not something for those who are less than totally committed. Some of the introductory courses are taught by professors like John Conway, while others are taught by researchers, etc. at the university. From what I understand, the first few real math courses are the hardest (or up there), and then they get easier after that. But the math majors I know are content with doing nothing other than math, and that seems to be the expectation.</p>
<p>I heard everyone except Engineers are required to write a senior thesis. Is this true? So math majors are required to write a senior thesis?</p>
<p>^That is correct.</p>
<p>The undergraduate math program is easily one of the best as well. It’s as good as Harvard and MIT.</p>
<p>Does anyone have insight to compare the undergrad math programs between Princeton and Caltech? That is the dilemma my son is in. Obviously both are very fine programs, we just wonder what else to consider.</p>
<p>Putnam Mathematical Competition statistics.</p>
<p>The following table lists Teams with First place finishes (as of 2008 competition):</p>
<p>First Place Team (s)
27 Harvard<br>
9 Caltech
5 MIT<br>
4 Toronto,Washington U in StL<br>
3 Brooklyn College, Duke, Michigan State<br>
2 Brooklyn Polytech, Cornell, Waterloo<br>
1 UC Berkeley, UC Davis, Case Western Reserve, Chicago, Princeton, Queen’s</p>
<p>From what I know, caltech’s undergrad math is quite odd. There are more requirements, including differential equations and probability, some of which some math people would find odd. Without getting into details, Princeton’s math program stands out in the following ways:</p>
<p>The flexibility. There is no one class every math major needs to take; To join the math department, you only need to have taken one proof-based math class. Any other math classes for will do. After the introductory level, there are only 3 topics that a math major must cover to major in math at Princeton (Algebra, Real and Complex Analysis), and there are at least 2 different courses that cover each of these topics. Even if a student finds he does not like a certain sort of math, he/she rarely needs to take it. And if it happens to be one of the 3 required ones, he/she is not required to take the hardest version of it. Overall, you can come to study math as you would like it, learning the sort of math you want at whatever level you want.</p>
<p>The attention and welcoming attitude. The math department is one of the most welcoming departments on campus. This is not really easily seen, because the classes are usually very difficult, which turns people off even before they see what the department is like. There is tea every day, and professors come and talk to whatever students are around. If you’re having trouble on the homework, professors almost always give extensions, no questions asked. When you are a Junior, you choose to either write a short paper of be in a seminar. In the former, you work one-on-one with a professor, learning some new topic; I have heard very, very few stories of anyone ever being rejected by a professor to write such a paper. In the latter, a professor teaches a course (usually one the professor specializes in) with around 8 math majors in the class. It is usually a very conversational, easy-going course with little to no homework, and more talking about the math. When I brought a friend of mine from high school to Princeton, we sat down and talked with John Conway for a while, and all the other Professors were welcoming, and they didn’t even know my friend!</p>
<p>The teaching. This is definitely my favorite. The math department at Princeton teaches AMAZINGLY WELL. With the exception of one, maybe two, professors, the department is filled with professors that teach is such a way that the material is presented as clearly as possible. Even after that, they are always willing to stay after class and talk about anything that wasn’t clear in class. And even after that, they have office hours in which they make themselves free during some day just so students can come with questions. And, of course, you could always just write and e-mail, and they’ll answer. In the end though, the magic is in the classroom, when you get to those proof-based math major courses. The Professors talk about the material like it is part of their blood, giving explanations one way and another, and then explaining the wrong way to think about it that most people think of the first time they see the material. And then coming up with thought-provoking examples. Sure, the homework is tough, but you are getting as good of an education as you can possibly get.</p>
<p>There are other reasons why I feel the undergrad math program at Princeton is amazing, but those are some of the ones I feel are the best. Caltech is great, of course, and I really don’t know enough to criticize it. However, I know plenty about the math program at Princeton, and, at the very least, I absolutely KNOW that your son will not regret going to Princeton for math.</p>
<p>William Lowell Putnam Competition </p>
<p>Sixty-ninth Competition - 2008
Teams
<p>Sixty-eighth Competition - 2007
Teams
<p>Sixty-seventh Competition - 2006
Teams
<p>Sixty-sixth Competition - 2005
Teams
<p>Sixty-fifth Competition - 2004
Teams
<p>Also, I would like you to know that german_car generally only answers posts with negative things about Princeton. Usually, he picks and chooses different statistics that would make Princeton look as low as possible. If he wants to spend his time doing that, that’s great; I’ll just mention that, if you took first AND second place finishes together (or top 5, if you would like), Princeton would be higher in the ranking. Also, you could check out recent year’s Putnam competition results, and make your decision that way. (Really any reasonable metric would show that the program is one of the top. Or actually, I recommend you come visit campus during preview and talk with the department - I’m sure some professors would be more than happy to talk with your son.)</p>
<p>@ TheMoment
Thank you for sharing. I will share you this with my son. He will be pleased. He will find out in ~2 weeks if he will be joining you.</p>
<p>@ german_car</p>
<p>TheMoment…I really gave a nice description of the Princeton math department. I will also add that there is a clear expectation that you are not just there to do math. In fact you are not allowed to take more than 12 math classes as an undergraduate. Princeton is for the student that wants a top notched math program in the context of a liberal arts program that is strong in many areas.</p>
<p>Also in the words of my son, “Princeton is a party school.”</p>
<p>It’s somewhat similar in that regard when compared to Caltech. Caltech is known for its rigid science courses that are a requirement for every student there. It has a scientest-esque approach on its teaching and focuses on how it can influence students to view things in a rational and methodical precision. In Caltech as well, you don’t just learn math; you learn a new way of looking at the world (which is not uncommon for the top schools). These two colleges, however, have entirely different teaching philosophies.</p>
<p>One of my favorite things about the math department is the common room. I’ll go there to do my homework, hang out with math majors and grad students, get a question answered, talk to Conway, or get some tea.
Also, it’s super easy to get involved in the department. As a freshman, I have a grad student mentor who I have lunch with every once in a while, am part of Noetherian Ring, an organization of female mathematicians at Princeton, am the math club president, am involved with Princeton Math Circle, a program for local middle and high school students, volunteered for PUMaC, know a bunch of math grad students socially, and am going to be an RA/TA at SWIM, a summer program for high school girls run by Princeton, this summer.
The math department is intense, but it’s a really tight community and I absolutely love it.
I also completely agree with TheMoment…I’s post.</p>
<p>Thank you for this discussion. I am considering Princeton with Harvard and Yale to do maths and physics. This has definitely pushed Princeton up my list. At the moment though, it is just whichever one I get into!</p>
<p>I’m not exactly sure why you have Yale as high as Harvard and Princeton. It’s certainly a good school and has a top program, but it’s (almost?) always ranked lower than Harvard, Princeton, MIT, etc. in the natural sciences.</p>
<p>I agree. But those 3 are the top 3 that I have applied for. I have always thought that Yale focusses more on the arts? and this is what I was trying to make sure of. I am just ckecking if my ranking of them is correct, and these threads seem to have confirmed my impressions; Princeton/Harvard > Yale for science maths. What I meant before is that if I only get into Yale I will not be at all disappointed, but my problem (Oh what a sweet problem though) comes if I am accepted into 2 or all of them. Then I get a tough choice. ATM, 1 - Princeton/Harvard 3 - Yale 4 - Cornell 5 - Duke</p>
<p>Yes, math majors do write a senior thesis - which is super helpful if you want to go to grad school in math. </p>
<p>Any pre-frosh who have questions about the math department at princeton, email them to <a href=“mailto:mathclub@princeton.edu”>mathclub@princeton.edu</a> and we’ll get back to you as soon as we can. Or better yet, at Princeton Preview, come to our rubik’s cube tournament / board game night (depending on which weekend you come) and hang out with us and get your questions answered.</p>