<p>Thanks edad and soozievt. Your detailed responses are very helpful. I think framing these visits appropriately - for the purposes of gathering information - is useful to remember and also helps to make the visits less tense for the student. Do you think the visits with profs could be at all harmful for the applicant - if they come across as shy, for example? Would it be appropriate for the student to bring a portfolio of artwork to a meeting with a member of the art faculty?</p>
<p>edad, your points are very good. I'd add that I find it odd so many visits are done during summertime when the "feel" is gone, as all the kids are gone!</p>
<p>We basically did one school a day; two where very easy (like Haverford/BrynMawr; Smith /Hampshire. D spent nights in dorms and I went solo to hotels.</p>
<p>Bringing a portfolio is a great idea. I think there is little risk of a downside to the faculty visits. I also think the faculty is used to dealing with shy 17 year olds. We found all the sessions to be very relaxed. I think the same is true of the admissions interviews. They are not stress interviews. They try to have a relaxed, positive interview and get the kids to open up.</p>
<p>SV2..try not to think of it as them interviewing your child. It was more like the kid interviewing THEM....exploring and gathering more information. They shared about their program and know that kids are "shopping" for the right one. I'm not sure about the portfolio because that is more appropriate in an interview situation. I could perhaps see it if done this way....if the kid says, "can you take a look at some samples and tell me if you think I'd fit in here or what do you think I might need to work on as I prepare for college?" I'm assuming you are talking of art faculty in a liberal arts setting, not a program in which you enter via portfolio. Still, I think the main purpose is to talk about the program, not the kid. Sometimes the kid will talk about what he or she has done and can ask if there is anything else they'd recommend to do before coming into such a program, that sort of thing. </p>
<p>I am an alumni interviewer and I think a portfolio is a great thing to bring to an interview to share. It might be ok with a professor but I would not make it the focus or it comes across as asking him/her to assess you as if the purpose of the meeting was admissions and the purpose should be to learn more about the program, not so much YOU. But if the portfolio was used in a way to ask for any guidance as to the level of work or what advice they had to work on before college, it might be OK.</p>
<p>Susan</p>
<p>Yes, I was talking about art departments within a liberal arts setting. I thought that if my daughter brought a portfolio or photos of her work, she could ask the profs if she might be exempted from some of the usually required introductory level studio courses. She would find that highly attractive but not essential. I like the idea of bringing art work to the interviews - thanks.</p>
<p>SV2, that might be a real good legitimate way to show a portfolio in that circumstance, yes. If she doesn't approach it as...here is my art work, can I get in? type thing and more as getting some helpful advice with regard to the question on placing out of some coursework, then it fits more under trying to learn more about the program and questions to that affect. As long as that is not the focus (her work), sounds like it would work just fine.</p>
<p>Many excellent points and some tips I wish I had thought of on our visits. At the same time, there is a recent book, Blink: The Power of Thinking Without Thinking, about initiative thinkers. These are people who somehow are able to make good decisions, often under severe time constraints and with imperfect information. Similar to DMD77s experience, I found that my child ruled out a couple of schools within less than an hour of setting foot in them and couldnt leave fast enough. While it is natural to feel disappointed if youve spent all this time and effort arranging a visit and your child looks like they rather be anyplace else in the world after 20 minutes, look on the bright side. Your child may be one of those intuitive thinkers who will do well in life.</p>
<p>Our strategy was to see as many colleges as we could squeeze into each day. We did some tentative research on line and on paper. We planned our route, which was restricted to the Northeast with one notable exception in Pasadena, California. On day one we saw three colleges near Boston, same on day two, day three we only visited two, one in RI and one in CT. My son decided to apply to seven schools. He was accepted at six, waitlisted and ultimately denied at the seventh. We returned for more in-depth visits before descision day and ultimately felt very good about his choice. He is happier then we had ever dared hope he would be with his choice. It's pretty easy I think, you'll know when it feels right, just do a bit of homework beforehand so that you know you will be well placed academically.</p>
<p>I haven't read Blink, but am familiar with the basic concept -- and I do think that gut level response is important. While we parents may be thinking about academics and the quality of the facilities, the most important thing for the student may be a sense of belonging and fitting in. Once the visitor experiences the gut level reaction, cognitive dissonance will kick in to lead all other evidence and experience to be filtered through the lens of the newly formed bias. More time on campus will either supply 20 good reasons to love the place - or 20 great reasons to hate it. </p>
<p>I think what is most valuable for we as parents to do is to stop being visit-managers and planners start being listeners: instead of discounting those first impressions, listen to what is behind the sentiment the kid expresses, and we parents should be talking to our kids, not the people on campus. That doesn't mean that planning and prearranging isn't valuable -- just that we need to give our kids maneuvering room, and back off once the kid arrives on campus. </p>
<p>My daughter noticed when attending college info sessions that she seems to be the only 17 year old arriving on campus without parents in tow... and while I have totally lost the ability to direct what she does on campus once she gets there, my d. felt that her solo visits are to her advantage. I have supplied my daughter with appropriate emails and phone numbers and let her do her own scheduling. There are probably all sorts of things that I might argue she should have done, but didn't.... but she seems to be fully in command of the process.</p>
<p>calmom - well said.</p>
<p>you know, I think you hit upon exactly what my S was doing. He didn't worry himself about the academics - we had vetted that before ever venturing out. For him, it was all about where he wanted to <em>be</em> in exactly the "fitting in" sense you speak of and, as we have mentioned here in other discussions, where he could imagine himself growing into the 22 year old he is to become.</p>
<p>You know, because he is a Katrina kid, he is on another very different, and very good, campus right now for a full term. He is doing quite well, and the academics are excellent. But he can't wait to get back to his "real" school, for just the reason you identified.</p>
<p>btw, Blink is a very interesting read <em>even if you don't need it</em></p>
<p>After reading some of the posts, I have realized why the short, drive-by visits are so common and perhaps necessary. Prior to the college visits, my D was already familiar with several schools:
1 1 week workshop at a large urban U
2 1 week program at a private rural LAC
3 4 week summer program at a medium college in a small city
4 2 yrs of Saturday classes at another urban campus
5 5 days visiting friends at an LAC located near a big U college town
6 30 short visits to the large nearby U</p>
<p>She had seen quite a few additional colleges for a few hours or a day. My D was ready for in depth visits. I guess she had a lot more experience than the average student. Our approach may not fit, but I would still recommend trying to slow down and perhaps make fewer visits with more depth.</p>
<p>I'd also caution against getting too far in-depth at a reach college - simply because you may be shopping for something you can't have. And what you learn while visiting Harvard might make the match and safety schools pale by comparison. So I would say if the odds are more likely than not that your kid will never get in.... save the in-depth stuff for the spring. Though a walk through and info session still makes sense -- no point applying to reach schools you don't even like superficially.</p>
<p>"And what you learn while visiting Harvard might make the match and safety schools pale by comparison."</p>
<p>Actually, we found just the opposite. The quality of what my d. saw at match and safety schools was so much higher than at H., that she finally didn't even apply. But the thing is, you'd have to actually look at what lies under the hood, rather than simply being wowed by the name.</p>
<p>Fit is just so important. What looked like the #1 choice fell close to the bottom of the list after two visits. And what was close to the bottom soared to the top. We discovered that a certain "sameness" among the viewbooks masked very great differences both quantitative and qualitative, in academic offerings, in advising, in opportunities, in student bodies, and in campus culture that we never would have discovered without the extended visits.</p>
<p>Gosh, when you live in CA and kid wants to go to the East Coast, and still needs to decide for sure things like size, location, etc., spending one day for each school would have meant me going on some kind of college application disability insurance:). So those of you who bewail your northeast state, remember, you get to do better research for the game....</p>
<p>our experience was similar to mini's. S was nonplussed with H, P, & Y and the others of that stratosphere -- "gut" level response, each for a different reason.</p>
<p>I agree with mini. My D visited one Ivy. It's a great school but was in many ways a poor match. My D applied anyway but it was towards the bottom of her wish list. </p>
<p>I think it is very important to visit the reaches. If there is a really good match, admissions may realize that also. Remember they are also looking for kids who fit their needs and don't always make selections strictly by the numbers.</p>
<p>Alumother--EXACTLY! </p>
<p>My D wants to go to Boston over spring break, ostensibly to visit colleges, though really, I think she just wants to take a trip (hey, me too :) !) I imagine that if we go it will be not all that in-depth with the college visits, since this will probably be the only east coast visit, and we do want to have time to maybe do a couple of other things since she has never been to Boston, and I have been there only once. Plus, there is that falling in love thing and getting your heart broken with some of the super selective Uni's that I want to try to avoid. So we'll probably cruise by Harvard and MIT, just for the heck of it, and after all, they are easy to get to, and take a little closer look at Tufts and Wellesley (chances slightly more realistic of getting in)-- and gosh, I would love to somehow fit in Middlebury in Vermont (because of the language interest-- though it is another potential heart breaker, just looks so perfect) and Vassar (we have friends in Poughkeepsie). How to do it at all, let alone try for "in-depth?" So far, we have done two "in-depth" visits--Humboldt State (brother goes there) and UChicago (other brother goes there) . . . And I continue to pitch St. Olaf and Grinnell to her, and want to something "in-depth" at those schools with her at some point as well. . . I have a feeling the real "in-depth" visits will probably occur after she gets in someplace . . .</p>
<p>Alumother, that's why my daughter is traveling alone. Now I admit that I figured she was nuts to think she could take off two full weeks in fall of her senior year to go visiting colleges, but she figured it out. </p>
<p>My daughter checked out 5 colleges in DC, Baltimore & NYC in late September, and I just dropped her off at the airport where she is flying out to Boston today for what I assume will be another 5. (With still shifting priorities, she cancelled her Wellesley interview, but I think she's added Tufts and BU. In any case, I've given up on trying to track her Boston itinerary: I just printed out a transit map where I marked the various college locations). I admit that this is only possible because (a) she knows people in the various cities who can provide a place to stay, even if it is a matter of being hosted in a dorm room at some other college, and (b) she is only interested in urban colleges in major cities, thus allowing her to rely on public transportation to get around. </p>
<p>I'm not saying that all west coasters can do this -- my son didn't visit any colleges until the spring, and applied to many sight unseen. That worked out o.k. I still stand by the idea that the kids are going to see what they want to see, and if they make up their minds that they are in love with the University of Timbuktu based on a post card, a visit won't deter them. My daughter completely revamped her college list because of the visits -- great in theory -- but in a parallel universe I don't think she would end up miserable if she applied to the original and now-rejected slate. The foreign exchange experiences with both kids taught me that it is amazing how well things can work out when you simply pick a country, pay your money, and let someone else pick out the precise destination. So many kids end up at their last-choice safeties that it is silly to place too much emphasis on the pre-application visit; much more rational to make up your mind after being admitted. We all end up where we end up in life, and the things that work out the best, including careers and marriage, are as likely to arise from serendipitous factors as from carefully laid plans.</p>
<p>"So many kids end up at their last-choice safeties that it is silly to place too much emphasis on the pre-application visit"</p>
<p>Without the visits, I am pretty sure my D would not have been accepted by one of her far reaches. At two of her reaches, she was all but positive that she was going to be accepted and this happened at the visits - - many months before the official paperwork. I also attribute several thousand dollars in merit scholarships to the visits. She might have been accepted without the visits, but I doubt it.</p>
<p>Edad, its wonderful that things worked out so well for your daughter... but anyone who has followed these boards for a few years knows that there are many capable students who feel after a visit or interview that their admission is virtually assured, only to be stunned with a rejection or waitlist letter in May. It is easy to attribute a successful outcome to something we've done along the way--- but my son's most pleasant surprise came from a college that he had shown little interest in -- no visits, last-minute application, no interview, etc. -- which offered him the most generous financial aid package of all. He actually did consider that college a top choice - but our concerns about distance and expense had led him to assume that the college was out of reach financially, and admissions was by no means guaranteed. </p>
<p>I'm not questioning the fact that campus visits and interviews can help demonstrate interest to a college -- but the point is there are other ways to accomplish the same. Also, while the strong demonstration of interest is important at most colleges, it is not that significant at the uppermost level, where yield is high and competition tough, simply because those colleges can assume that most of their applicants have a strong desire to come.</p>