Campus Visits - another approach

Parents Forum
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<p>Sometimes I do enjoy reading the thumbnail sketches of campus visits. Unfortunately it does appear that the majority of visits do not yield much more information. I am amazed to read about visiting 6-7 colleges in a week. Many opinions seem to be greatly influenced by the appearance of the buildings and the personality of the work-study student tour guide. If a school is worth the visit, I think a more in depth visit is wise. If you are interested in a different approach, my long narrative and suggestions might be of help.</p>

<p>I will describe our (DD, DW and I) first college visit. We drove into the area the night before and had time to look at the surrounding community and drive through the campus. Later we reviewed the college brochures and information we had downloaded from the web. My D discussed possible interview questions and how she might respond. The next day we showed up at the admissions office for the intro and tour. We met the admissions director and verified our appointment for an interview. After the tour we assembled with the other 30 or so students and families for a Q and A session. At the end of the session my D's name was called and she went in to talk with the admissions director. A few minutes later we were called in. By then the AD had his recruiters hat on. By the end of the hour he had all but promised admission and a decent merit scholarship. He had outlined a couple of simple steps my D should do to make that happen. We were a little surprised because this college was probably more of a reach than a match. After the "interview", we noticed that the admissions office was all but empty and most of the families had left for their next campus visit. We went for our appointment with a faculty member. We got a tour of the department and some very interesting information about the academics. He called ahead and made arrangements for my D to meet another faculty member in a different department. Later in the afternoon we meet some students and got to visit a dorm. We found out why the dorms were not included on the official tour. We meet another student working in the gym and had a long chat. Normally we would have stayed longer but by then it was late in the afternoon and we felt we had accomplished our mission. We left campus and compared notes. The different information and impressions from 3 sets of eyes can be amazing, but we did have a fairly detailed idea of the academics and campus culture. When we got home, my D sent thank notes and took this college off her list, because it was not a fit.</p>

<p>Based on this and our subsequent visits, I have a few suggestions for making a visit valuable. First do the homework first. Second make appointments with admissions and at least one faculty member. Our first visit may not have been typical. Usually the admissions appointments turned out to be of limited value, but the faculty appointments were invaluable. In addition to the information, the faculty member often helped as an advocate during the admissions process. Next spend time trying to assess the campus culture. This can be tough, but you can learn a lot if you are not in a hurry and spend time on campus with your eyes open. Finally try to assess all the information and get past the first impressions formed from a rainy day, the amount of ivy on the walls or the quality of the tour guide. My D was really good at assessing the culture probably because she had previously stayed on several campuses for reasons not related to admissions visits.</p>

<p>In spite of all I have said about a thorough, systematic visit, intuition and a gut feeling can be important. I remember walking onto campus for one of our last campus visits. My D said she was nervous. This was the school where she belonged. I don't know how she knew, but a day later we all agreed. Fortunately she was offered admission, is attending, and the fit was indeed near perfect.</p>

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<p>edad, agree with all you've said -- but I think you have to break down vists between the "getting a feel" visit and the "rubber meets the road" visit. We'd love to do the detailed visit you describe (with the attendant background work) for all of the schools on S' list, but it would simply be impossible in terms of time and money. So we're doing the open house/canned visits to as many schools as we can over the next year in an attempt to whittle down the list. Once accepted, THEN we plan on doing the real nitty-gritty tours, hopefully with an overnight for S.</p>

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<p>Considering all the arrangements and travel time, it really does not take that many more hours to do a more thorough evaluation. I do consider the visit and optional but potentially important part of the application process. Even some casual contacts made can make a big difference in the odds of acceptance. "Once accepted" may never happen without some work.</p>

<p>I am sorry if my post appears overly opinionated. I forgot mention that one of my reasons for starting this post was the hope that other parents would add their suggestions for getting the most out of the visits.</p>

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<p>Thanks for the advice Edad. I didn't make any contact with faculty members with D1 (although she did sit in on classes) but will work on that for D2. I think that you need to dedicate an entire day to a college to do it justice. Do too many two in a day & you'll be so tired and cranky that the hometown community college will start looking good!</p>

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<p>I totally agree with edad. Take the time to set up visits via your son/daughter who can develop an email schedule with pertinent faculty members. Spend the night. Have time to just observe beyond the tours. Son discovered after visiting a great school and talking with two faculty that the place, though wonderful, was not the place for him. And if you don't have the money, then do the best you can. Fewer in depth visits. He applied to 8 and visited 4.</p>

<p>I've said this before but in retrospect, he applied to too many schools. This was mainly for financial aid reasons. His best deals were those schools that were either reaches or matches. They know.</p>

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<p>one neat way to visit a college is to attend a camp that they offer. you may have to plan ahead a little on this one, but it is a nice way to see the facilities, meet some faculty, and "experience" the community. it may not work for everyone, but it was a neat experience for my son. he got to spend 3 or 4 days at one of his top choices, and he feels even more confident that this school is the place for him.</p>

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<p>My D went to camps at two different schools both of which she ended up hating. My nephew went to a camp at one those schools and will apply there. The camps are not "real"--it's a bunch of high school students on a college campus. You can see facilities but not personality.</p>

<p>As a parent of a first-impressions-matter daughter, I will defend our 11-schools in 5 days east coast trip. We didn't have a lot of time, and she wanted to see a lot of schools. She was roundly criticized some years back on this forum for having refused to get out of the car at one school ("too preppy, mom"), but I look back at that moment as one of the finest of the trip. We spent little time in official visiting until we'd looked around and had a cup of coffee, then read the bulletin boards. We left one school quickly after realizing <em>every</em> bulletin board we found was covered with requests for rides home. (It was the only school where we found that; in other schools, there were only a few requests.) These may have been snap judgements, but her final list was pretty consistent: Reed, Lewis and Clark, Bard, Wesleyan, Swarthmore. Her reasons for each school may have been idiosyncratic and quickly formed, but she got there. (For the curious: Reed because there was a pet cat in the admissions office, L&C because they offered her a merit scholarship and had EA and are in Portland, Bard because she saw some kids fighting with mock swords in the woods outside during her interview, Wesleyan because her friend's brother went there and liked it, and Swat because they have a light switch on the side of the library.)</p>

<p>My son was very different. He applied to Cal Tech and MIT without bothering to visit, saying that he'd visit only if he got into both. He couldn't figure out why anyone would visit, since "programs and professors are all that matters" and you can find out about them online. I've known several other engineers who felt the same way (including my husband, who had never visited RPI when he went there).</p>

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<p>We are doing the standard visits + interviews. But my cousins have two daughters --one now in Med school who just graduated Stanford and another still at Emory. These girls did not visit any colleges before applying or go for interviews and then did overnights at two or three places after acceptances came before committing.</p>

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<p>EDad, I could not agree with you more. Our visits were always for an entire day and included way more than just the tour and info. session. Much planning went into the visit ahead of time, as well as emails and what not to relevant people. Sometimes, the initial visit involved an overnight with a student (if we knew someone attending or friend of a friend type thing). Every school had one thorough visit. Then a couple "first choices" got a second visit that included an overnight and even more things like observing classes. We pretty much did what you did. I read lots where people just do a "drive by" (those I do not get) and others where they just took the tour (and some who even made some impressions based on the tour guide who is the only student they met). We never did just that anywhere. Each visit had certain elements included such as appointments and meeting with current students. </p>

<p>Here are my college visit suggestions....</p>

<p>For each visit, there are things I would try to include. If you can do similar things at each school, then the student can compare apples to apples, as opposed to one visit being much more comprehensive than another and naturally looks better by default. </p>

<p>First, a starting point at any school is to line up reservations for the information and the tour. These alone are not enough in my opinion but as a baseline, they are informative. Then I would have the student write a department head or faculty member in the academic field in which she is interested and speak about her interest in their dept. and wanting to learn more about it and asking if they are willing to meet on her upcoming visit. We did that at every school with my child and it was fruitful in learning way more about the program. Often she also was able to meet with students in the department and talk informally with them about the program. These were all followed up with personalized thank you emails, and referred to in the Why X College essay (or if none required on the application, then in the cover letter to the application.) </p>

<p>At several schools, particularly on second visits, she lined up observing a class in her field of interest. You can find these out on their websites or ask the department or the admissions office. Once she located a course she wanted to see, and if the time worked into our day, she wrote the professor ahead of time and asked if she could sit in. These were followed by thank you letters as well. </p>

<p>She wrote an email to coaches or other extracurricular interest areas and asked if they would meet with her on her upcoming visit. She summarized about herself in the note and her interest in that particular EC at that school. She had many meetings like this at each college. If she knew any current students from our hometown area, or even a friend of a friend attending the college, she asked if she could either spend the night in their room (did this at many schools) or at the least, meet up for a drink or lunch in the cafeteria so she could chat with a student about the school and that student might also show her around. (She has now done this as a current student herself for prospective students we either know or people I've met on CC's kids....one in fact is coming next week and she'll host her and show her around, take her to classes, etc.). The overnights gave her a glimpse into the campus life and she got to talk with many students that way, and could see if she felt she fit in or liked it. When she did not do an overnight, or even when she did, we ate in the cafeteria (checked that part out!) and she went up to random kids and told them she was looking at the school and would they mind telling her how they liked it, etc. This way she got many kids' perspectives, not just one's, and they were random and not like the tour guides who are "cheerleaders" for the college. For some club teams, she contacted the captains (can find that out online) and asked if they would meet up with her on the visit and they always said yes (In fact, in all the above cases, people always said yes). So, when she met with a captain of a club team, besides learning about the level of the team and what it was like, she was also meeting one more current student and the discussion went beyond the team. I was there for those meetings actually and learned way more than an information session would provide in terms of perspective. A student could do this with any of their extracurricular interests. We even met with dance faculty or even chairs of dance "club" groups on campus. I recall the dance faculty person following up my D's thank you note with one of her own that said she was going to be mentioning my D to the admissions office. A student could meet with current students in music clubs/organizations, newspaper staff, community service organizations, religious clubs, and/or with staff associated with activities. </p>

<p>As well, most tours do not show you inside the dorms and dorm life is a big part of the college experience. What we did was to walk around and go up to dorms and when we saw a student about to enter, my D walked up and introduced herself as a high school kid looking at this college and would they mind if she could briefly peak at their dorm room to get an idea and everyone would always say yes and we saw many different dorm rooms on each campus. Not only did we see the living options but this was yet another chance to chat with current students who really added lots more perspectives and information. By the end of the 24 hours, we had a very full exploration. </p>

<p>The last thing we tried to do at each school was to look at the surrounding area as that is also part of going to a college. For instance, if visiting Lehigh, we checked out downtown Bethlehem to get a feel for what there is there and what there is to do, same with College Town near Cornell, or downtown Ithaca when at Ithaca College, walking around the streets in New Haven near Yale, or downtown Ann Arbor when at UMich.</p>

<p>To recap...for each school...
The parent may line up in advance: info. session, tour. SOMETIMES, there are also on campus interviews and if those are offered, line one up for the student or he/she can herself if by email.
The student writes/lines up in advance: meetings with professors, coaches, current students she may know or others given as a reference, arrangements to observe a class, meetings with team captains of the club teams, meetings with either faculty or students who run the extracurricular organizations she might be interested in (ie., dance, music, debate).
SPONTANEOUS stuff to do at the school: eat in cafeteria, talk informally with students, ask kids entering dorm buildings if can see rooms, pick up school newspaper, take a look at the area surrounding the college.
Follow up each meeting with someone with a thank you note that picks up on specific things she learned about that school or program and what was appealing. Same with if the student observed a class.Same goes for interviews both on and off campus. These should NOT be generic where you could plug the name of any college into the thank you note. </p>

<p>If visits take place prior to applications being mailed, these should be referenced in either the Why X College short essays or in the Cover Letters to apps.</p>

<p>Susan</p>

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<p>I will add that D1 went back to three schools she was deciding between in April for accepted students events (was second visit for two of these and third visit for one) and these re-visits and overnights and events were a beneficial factor in her final decision making. They were instrumental and worthwhile. I think when my kids did decide where to go, they really knew quite a bit to come to that decision and in fact, both are really happy now with the choice now that they are in college.</p>

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<p>To me, edad's approach is an Ideal I would have liked to live up to. But it would not have fit my S, not one little bit. So there are different valid approaches for different kids, different families, different travel constraints. </p>

<p>We did an East Coast drive trip of 6 school info session/tours plus 2 drive-bys in 5 1/2 days. We did a south/west air trip which alloted 1 day/school including travel time. We did two schools/day a couple times. At a couple schools, we did a <em>little</em> more depth, exploring on our own/happened on a prof/happened on a research lab. We spent time in surrounding area of several schools, which was important to my S (he is not an isolated campus kind of guy).We did zero "thorough" visits and I have felt a little guilty for that, but it is just not the type of visit that he wanted or needed. Hey, he refused to spend another minute at some schools he really liked! Some kids are instinctual, some kids don't think much of this more is better approach and some kids, mine included, are adaptable. There are many schools which would fit him and a few which were turnoffs - quick visits id'd those.</p>

<p>It is absolutely true that he didn't have an in-depth understanding of the schools we visited. But for him, the system of "surface visits" worked. A two-night overnight at his chosen school in April (STILL not an in-depth view of the school; he did what he wanted to do which did not involve covering all the bases I would have liked) confirmed his gut. He "knew" where he wanted to be very quickly. Sometimes we can overanalyze. More may be better, but more is not necessary for everyone.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
Then I would have the student write a department head or faculty member in the academic field in which she is interested and speak about her interest in their dept. and wanting to learn more about it and asking if they are willing to meet on her upcoming visit.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Soozie and others - could you talk more about this? Are professors at highly selective colleges with large numbers of applicants (eg Yale, Brown) really willing to meet with high school juniors? What kinds of conversations do they engage in? Isn't a lot of the information about the department available on the website and course brochures, etc?</p>

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<p>Well at top LACs yes, they are available. Your sons and daughters need to have a reason to visit. They need to email way in advance. It can make a difference. I don't know what my son talked about but he visited with several professors concerning music for around an hour. I was outside looking at the scenery. By the time he was done, he knew he needed a more music concentrated place no matter how great a school's reputation was or what the website said. He was given specific details that would never have come out without a one on one. He still had a great visit. So did I. It was worth it.</p>

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<p>SV2 wrote: "Soozie and others - could you talk more about this? Are professors at highly selective colleges with large numbers of applicants (eg Yale, Brown) really willing to meet with high school juniors? What kinds of conversations do they engage in? Isn't a lot of the information about the department available on the website and course brochures, etc?"</p>

<p>For my D, yes, anyone she asked said YES and this included department heads, and included selective schools. Given your examples....at Yale she met with an architecture professor AND observed classes after corresponding. At Brown, she met with the head of engineering (I may be wrong in that he was head of civil engineering....was three years ago now). Tufts....met with head of architectural engineering, same with architectural studies. At Lehigh, dept. head of architecture met with her...same with at Conn College. Met one on one w/ architecture professor at Smith, another one she observed. Ones in engineering at Harvard were willing but out of town on her visit day. Information indeed is available on websites and brochures. But like with anything, when you engage in a two way conversation, you can ask any specific questions that relate to your interests, explore more in depth, get advice on any preparation you might do, any opportunties that might exist in that program to do such and such, and sometimes they explained various paths she may take....I was in many of these meetings (not all) and found them very informative which was her purpose. She had a list of questions going into it. Some even showed her around the department. She then met students to talk to, as well. </p>

<p>For my other D, this would not have been so possible with BFA programs in musical theater. However, she was able to contact some faculty who let her observe their class. One arranged for her to talk to a current student. Another school let her have a meeting (with me too, not that I expected to be a part of it) with an admissions person in that department. But her situation was very different because so much rides on the audition. One faculty person invited her to attend a workshop with their entire student body in the dept. that had a guest speaker. </p>

<p>Hope this helps. Most were very willing to respond and help to inquiries from a student who wanted to explore the program more. My kids did NOT do this to gain ANY advantage, but simply for their own knowledge. As it turns out, when they did write about why they liked a school, they were able to base it on specific things they did there and learned. That was a nice upshot but not the purpose of the exploration. </p>

<p>JMMom...I do agree with you that this plan is not for all kids in terms of time or personalities. My second child was not into walking up to random kids to see inside the dorms. She did do overnights with kids she knew and observed classes with kids she knew in the programs but did not care as much about eating in the cafeteria or seeing the dorms like my other kid did. At two schools, after the audition, she did not care about walking around to see the whole campus as she mostly cared about the program. So, kids do differ and what each family does will differ in this regard. Some families must see many schools in one week, particularly because they are traveling thousands of miles to make the trip. We were fortunate to be able to not do more than two schools per excursion and to devote one full day to each school but this is not necessarily possible or even ideal for others.</p>

<p>PS...I thought of you because I think I was in your area a few days ago!</p>

<p>Susan</p>

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<p>dmd -- you might appreciate the fact that my s tells everyone he chose Penn because they throw toast on the field at football games. That's not the real reason, but that's what he tells people. And it WAS one of those little quirky things that just hit him the right way.</p>

<p>I think edad's visit sounds wonderful, but not realistic for us. I'd love to do indepth visits, but distance and money made it really difficult in the past, and impossible now. Next year we will be cramming in visits as best as possible, but the ones that happen might be short, and have more to do with location (convenience to us, or being able to hit several schools with one plane fare) than anything else. We're looking for alternative ways to learn about schools and demonstrate interest.</p>

<p>DoDDsdad gave me a great suggestion that I'll throw out here for any other overseas parents: visit schools' study abroad programs! You can meet some teachers and students that way, and talk about the school. Also, ask schools for alumni in your country and schedule interviews. These are two things we are planning to do, once we have a clue what colleges to look at.</p>

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<p>One of the most useful things is to visit the campus at night. Walk around and see how it "feels" -- how many kids are also out walking around? How many kids are in the library studying? Is the library quiet at night or more of a social meeting place? Are there things going on in the student union? Are there loud parties going on (bad sign during the week)? Do you feel safe walking around after dark? What is open on campus at night? How busy are the computer labs, etc. Some of this happens during overnight visits, of course, but just walking around after dark can also be very informative and eye opening.</p>

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<p>SV2, we never encountered any difficulty arranging faculty appointments at even highly selective schools. I was almost always impressed with the amount of time faculty members or department heads spent with us. You may be able to get a start in making appointments by contacting admissions. This works at smaller schools. At the larger schools you will be better off going directly through the departmental office. Sometimes emails are available. Often you need to make phone calls. My DW did all of this advance work. There was no way for my D to do this while she was in school. You may need to be flexible in finding dates and times which are best and you may not be able to meet with a specific faculty member of your choice. None of these visits were stressful or needed a lot of prep. Your S or D does not have to be commited to a specific major to benefit from this. In some cases the faculty member did a mini-interview with my D. Most often all 3 of us were present. We gained very valuable information and after a number of visits and talking with different faculty members my D got a much better idea of her interests and possible majors. Do not plan on using these visits to gain an advantage with admissions. If you create that impression, you may not get a very favorable response. </p>

<p>If you have not done any of these faculty/departmental visits, it is difficult to explain the value. Once you do a couple, it will be clear. At no time did we ever feel like we were imposing or unwelcome. I think the faculty get few requests and do enjoy showing off and promoting their departments.</p>

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<p>I second everything EDad just wrote. We really learned a lot in these sessions for my D's benefit, nothing more. It even helped her a bit to figure out which major or direction she might go in....at the early stages was considering engineering or architecture and then leaned just toward architecture, partly as an outgrowth of these sessions with faculty and dept. heads and observing, talking with students and everything. Professors seemed very interested in sharing about their programs and answering questions or even giving advice to her given her goals and questions. My D wrote all the emails with these people. The logistics with the schools and the travel plans and all, I did the phone calls after consulting with her because she was never home during the work day. </p>

<p>And I wholeheartedly agree not to view these appointments as an advantage with admissions. Do them for yourself. When I said that she was able to refer to these specifics in her Why X College essays, that is true, but it is part of anyone needing to learn as much as possible why a school is a good fit or not and to be able to express that. That need not come from the visit. If it did, mention it. But don't visit for that reason. I feel, she had all to gain. It is like shopping for anything. In this case, the kid is going to spend four years there, so might as well find out about each aspect....the dorms, the kids, the environment, the academic offerings in your field of interest, the extracurricular groups you hope to join, the area where the school is located, and so on. </p>

<p>Susan</p>

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<p>Carolyn, great suggestion. You do learn alot watching what is happening in the evening. You had a great list of things to look for. I would also add that is interesting to observe the extend of campus security at night.</p>

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<p>soosievt, good point. We are so involved with the difficult of admissions that it is easy to forget we are the consumers and we need to do some shopping.</p>