<p>My daughter is attending a school that has been rated unacceptable by the state authorities. The rating is due to the number of students who failed the state standardized test in math and science. My daughter received recognized status for her scores on these tests. The school has serious drug and gang problems, a high drop out rate, and teachers that understandably are more concerned about those failing the tests than the high achievers.</p>
<p>My daughter is very goal oriented and wants to attend either Dartmouth or Middlebury. Are we jeopardizing her chances by leaving her in this school? We are not in a position to move at this time.</p>
<p>Any ideas on how to make the best of this situation would be appreciated.</p>
<p>Is your daughter doing well by national standards (as opposed to the state standards which are not very good gauge of the competition she would face for admission to collleges such as Dartmouth and Middlebury)?<br>
Does she have access to challenging classes? If not, does she have access to college classes that she might take? Does she have teachers willing to give her more challenging work as needed? Does she have a good, supportive GC?</p>
<p>If the answer is yes, she should not worry. Sometimes, it is actually an advantage for a bright kid to be attending a subpar school. The students may get more support from teachers delighted to be working with a student who loves learning, for example. The GC may be able to write an absolutely glowing letter; from the point of view of adcoms who are looking for diversity, such a student may also stand out. </p>
<p>If, however, you have concerns, please provide more details. There are parents from TX in particular, who could be helpful. When Curmudgeon gets back from dropping his D at her college, he could respond to your post.</p>
<p>Keep in mind that your D will be evaluated in context of the opportunities that she has been given. While it is sad that she has to go to school under such adverse conditions, she has proved that she has risen above it. </p>
<p>This is where the school profile is important as Dartmouth & Middlebury will see that she has done well in an underperforming school where not a lot of students graduate or do well on the standardized tests.</p>
<p>How are her grades and scores?</p>
<p>Overall the most important thing is to worry about if she is safe in this environment. If her safety has become questionable in this school, outside of moving what are your options? If changing schools is not an option and she must stay, she should continue to take the most rigerous courses her school offers and do well in those classes.</p>
<p>My answer to your daughter is YES. Every HS in our city has been labeled either underperforming or unsatisfactory under the new national standards. My S goes to a Title I "underperforming" school with very little support from GC's - 500 students per GC, and a high drop out problem. I agree with Marite - IF your D can get adequately challenging courses, she will do fine and probably make close connections with a couple of core teachers. As a parent it means you have to KNOW what's going on at the school - who are the good teachers, who is in the class, what are they talking about changing .... because you will need to advocate - be a part of the LSAC or whatever parent group is there, serve on a committee where you get to know the vice principals, etc. Good luck - she can do it!</p>
<p>I shoud have given more information. My daughter is a freshman. She took the SAT as a seventh grader, but didn't do anything spectacular. That is only national testing she has. She plans on taking the SAT and the ACT in the spring. She is presently taking the hardest freshman load in the school: Honors English, Honors Biology, World Geography, Geometry, ( no honors available) Debate 1, (only Freshman), French I, and tennis. AP classes are available next year, but according to parents of other students, there is little homework and the students don't bother to take the AP exams because they can't pass them. The counselors appear supportive, but we have only met them once. She can take dual credit classes at the local community college once she is a junior, so we will be exploring that option. I really liked the suggestion of asking the teachers for more challenging work. You're right, they might really enjoy working with a motivated student. I know the counselor was impressed when we pushed for her courseload.</p>
<p>I would suggest she not take the SAT as a freshman. All her scores will be reported so if she takes them again and again, she will be appear to be obsessed with grades and scores. We must assume that as she progresses through the curriculum and matures, she will do better. She can practice using RealSATs if she wishes, but my advice would be to wait until she is a junior to retake the SAT.
If she is interested in having more challenging math, you should check out the Math Forum; I believe you have to subscribe (it used to be free); but there are Problems of the Week that provide more challenges for interested students. There is also an Ask Dr. Math section for students who need help.
For AP, go to AP-central at the College Board website and look up the curricula; check them against what is offered in your school.</p>
<p>It might be worth looking at some of the excellent boarding schools that are known for offering financial aid to deserving students. She sounds like an excellent and motivated student and it wouldn't hurt to look at that option.</p>
<p>Another welcome, smalltownmom. You have come to the right place for a forum full of people with tons of knowledge, insight and willingness to share.</p>
<p>A thought. There are individual discussion forums for many colleges here on cc (including Dartmouth and Middlebury). Some of them have Admissions Officers who regularly read and respond to posted questions. I don't think Middlebury or Dartmouth have that. Someone here may know of other LACs, similar to those two, where a "College Rep" posts on the forum. If not, I suggest you try Johns Hopkins University's forum. Admissions Daniel posts there regularly and is very helpful. I think you might get valuable advice if you post a question similar to what you posted here, maybe with a title like "Admissions Advice for student from underperforming high school." Ask what advice he would give for course selection, use of APs vs. dual credit or both...., for a student in your D's situation, who would eventually like to attend a school of that caliber.</p>
<p>The Admissions Officers at most schools go by the title "Admissions Counselors" and this aptly describes how many of them see their role. They <em>want</em> to counsel and advise. I'm guessing that your D's high school isn't one on their regular circuit of high school visits ;), but perhaps you know of, or can learn from nearby Texas parents here on cc, of college fairs/tours held in your area. Although it's not typically Freshman and their families who attend such events, it could be very helpful for you. You could t try and get a few minutes with one of the counselors to get advice. I also wouldn't rule out calling the Admissions Office at Dartmouth and/or Middlebury during a non-busy time (which might be right now?). Ask for a telephone appointment with an Admissions Counselor and describe the kind of advice you are seeking. Busy times would be January to April, when they are receiving and evaluating applications.</p>
<p>Best of luck and hope to see you here with any other questions and concerns as the process unfolds for your D.</p>
<p>In many communities, institutions offer enrichment programs after school or during the summer for ambitious kids at underperforming schools. The guidance counselors at the school may know about them, or you can just put your ear to the ground. These serve many functions: in addition to supplementing your child's basic education, they also provide a community of like-minded kids (which is important for support and staying on track), provide contact with adults who can give your child more personal, sophisticated guidance than the GCs at a troubled school have time for, and often serve as recruiting sources for prep-school scholarship programs and college-sponsored enrichment programs for older kids.</p>
<p>
[quote]
AP classes are available next year, but according to parents of other students, there is little homework and the students don't bother to take the AP exams because they can't pass them.
[/quote]
If your daughter takes the AP courses and also gets an AP test review book, which she studies along with the class assignments, she should be able to pass the AP exams. My daughter was gone for half of her junior year (foreign exchange), so she could not take the AP English course, and she came into AP Psych mid year. She bought the review books and scored a 4 in English, 5 in Psych. When she talked to the other kids, she found out that the kids in the AP English class hadn't been given any of the basic vocabulary and terminology that was in the study guide she bought. So the point is, for purposes of passing the test, a good study guide can fill in where the teachers are leaving off. </p>
<p>If your daughter is very bright and motivated, then being in a poor school will provide an opportunity for her to stand out from the rest -- if she also takes advantage of outside opportunities or creates her own, then she will have good chances of getting into an excellent college. It's not an ideal situation, of course, but it is the sort of thing a smart student can rise above.</p>
<p>Also, take information from other parents with a grain of salt. I heard similar stuff from parents of older students at my daughter's school, but in hindsight I think some of the parents were blaming the teachers or school for their own child's lack of motivation. A motivated kid would take an AP test whether or not other kids at the school have passed, and would simply put needed effort into study and prep; a motivated kid would also use time effectively if there was no homework - for example, by doing extra reading on the subject. A kid who doesn't bother taking a test because he thinks he will fail is one who has given up without trying. The criticism that the parents have for the school and its teachers may be legit, but that still doesn't explain why the kids or their parents did not take the initiative to supplement the instruction on their own.</p>
<p>Regarding the standardized tests, I think your daughter can take the PSAT without there being any 'record' that gets sent with a college application. It would give you an indication of how she does on a national exam. Note that it's only given in October and intended for Juniors to take, so you'll need to seek that out yourself.</p>
<p>A lot of good advice here. I want to chime in that taking a college level course in the summer ( a nice, solid academic course), and finding a program where other advanced kids from all over go, would be helpful. She will get an idea as to where she stands among students like her. The PSAT would be a good test to see where she stands. As a freshman, she would not be expected to score that high, so you'll have to reduce the sttandard. Also at the end of this year, she might want to take some practice SAT2 tests which will let you know how adequately the school covered the material. Biology is a subject covered by SAT2.
There are two schools of thought about coming from a "bad" highschool. You can outshine your class mates more easily. That GPA could look very good. Since selective schools look at those things favorably, that could be a plus. But there are a number of other kids in your kids shoes who are applying to the top colleges too. Some of them not only stand out in their class, they also stand out in the applicant pool. If your student does not, coming from a "bad" school, is not a hook to bring her to the accept level. If you leave in waaay out area that rarely sends kids to college, say in rural Mississippi, that may catch the adcom's eye. Not so, if you live in an area where there are many other highschools that send kids to top schools. The other issue that may tip the outcome favorably is if your child is considered "disadvantaged". If neither parennt went to college, or adverse home conditions exist, those are grounds for a second look at the app.</p>