Can I get in?

Transfer Students
1

<p>I am currently a sophomore at Wake Forest University. I am considering whether or not to transfer to UNC, UM (Michigan), or UGA. I would like to know what are the chances of transferring to any of the schools. I would rather attend UNC or UM. My GPA is about a 3.1 and I am currently involved in Student Union, a church in Winston-Salem, and Big Brothers/Big Sister (I am currently on the committee trying to get it chartered on campus). I graduated high school ranked 23/720 students with a GPA of 3.97. I got a 1310 on my SAT. I went to Parkview High School in Atlanta (our high school was ranked the 7th best high school athletic program in the country by SI). I was on the baseball team all four years and was on the same team Jeff Francoeur was on in high school (he currently plays for the Atlanta Braves). I was also in Beta Club, Mu Alpha Theta, and the Spanish Club, </p>

<p>There are numerous reasons why I want to transfer out of Wake Forest. The reasons are:</p>

<p>1) Campus life is atrocious here. Everything is Greek life oriented. This is magnified by the fact that Wake is such a small school and Winston-Salem is not a "college town." </p>

<p>2) Registration is impossible. I should not be stressing out and dreading whether or not I can get a class when registration comes around. This is a liberal arts school and there are certain divisional requirements that need to be accomplished by the time you graduate. I should be allowed to finish those divisionals by the time I declare my major at the end of sophomore year, but that is pretty much impossible because there are not enough divisional classes to enroll in. Thus, you are stuck with registering for classes that have nothing to do with your major or divisional requirements and you are wasting your time and money.</p>

<p>3) There is no diversity here, racially or socio-economically. The kids here are just filthy rich and there views on life are completely skewed to the views of average people. For example, I have a "friend" here who does not want to be around or be associated with people who look lower class and he calls them farmers. This is the same perception I have with the majority of students here. </p>

<p>4) To be on the Dean's List here it is a 3.0. For University of Michigan or UNC, it is a 3.5. Both of those schools are ranked academically better than Wake Forest. It is definitely because it is tougher here. Thus, a 3.0 here is equivalent to a 3.5 at UM. Do graduate schools consider this? I don't think so! Also compared to the other schools, our grading scale is A = 4.0, A- = 3.6, B+ = 3.2, B = 3.0, etc. So for kids at those schools who get a 92 in a class would get an 4.0 there, whereas here they would receive a 3.6. Let's see a 4.0 or 3.6. I think I would rather have the 4.0.</p>

<p>5) A lot of the professors here are ridiculously tough. I feel that they completely screw you over with subjective tests (essays/short answers) compared to objective tests where they cannot do anything about your grade. I know of a professor who will not give you a 95-100 on an essay here because in order for your essay to be considered a 95-100 it must be a publishable essay (To make an A here it is a 93-100). Thus, it is almost impossible to get an A. Another example is my political science class. For a test, I missed only 1 out of 20 multiple choice questions and then when it came down to the short answer questions I gave him everything that he wanted, but he took off 11 points because he said that there are other students who gave more examples or wrote more and it would be unfair to them if I got the same grade. My religion professor is the worst. He has stated that the one who writes the most on a test will get the best grade and he doesn't take into consideration the quality of the answer, just the quantity.</p>

2

<p>I can't answer your question about transferring, but in case anyone is frightened about going to WFU because of your post I'll just add:</p>

<p>1) Wake is 40% Greek. I never rushed and found plenty to do--both on campus and off.</p>

<p>2) I double majored in four years. Registration gets easier each semester, but if you think it's bad at WFU--wait until you are registering at a big school.</p>

<p>3) 17% racial diversity in the freshmen class. Still not high enough. 1/3 of students qualify for financial aid. Dump your "friend." There are plenty of open-minded people at Wake.</p>

<p>4) Yeah. I think grad schools do take grade deflation into account. The registrar's office includes average GPA with transcripts. The Health Professions advising page shows that students with a 3.4 GPA and above got into medical school at a 90% average. Considering the national success rate is around 50%, I think graduate schools know about grade deflation.</p>

<p>5) Wake is hard. I wouldn't have it any other way.</p>

3

<p>When did you graduate?</p>

<p>1) 40% of Wake is Greek life yes, but that value does take athletes in consideration as well. That means the percentage is even higher. That is a huge percentage of the school involved in Greek life. Yes UNC is a bigger school, but their percentage is about 17% (the national average for state schools is about 15-18%). What activities did you do on campus and off? Intermurals are pointless because you play only 3 games and then you are done unless you get in the playoffs (not to mention they are dominated by fraternities and sororities). I do not drink. Thus, parties are definitely no fun because that is all you do at parties. There is nothing to do in Winston-Salem. I don't know how you had fun in this town but the closest place to where you could have something considered as fun is Greensboro, which is 30 minutes away and with gas prices nowadays, it is quite expensive.</p>

<p>My point with this Greek life subject is that a greater percentage of the student body is Greek and they tend to form close bonds with their "brothers and sisters." I am not saying you cannot form friendships with these people, but they are not going to be "close" friends. The friendships that you would like to form. I have a friend who is now in Kappa Sig who said that he would have transferred had he not joined the fraternity this semester because there is absolutely nothing to do here. However, he does drink so it is much easier for him.</p>

<p>2) I don't disagree that registration is probably as bad at bigger schools, but at least there are more classes you can sign up for. Also, everyone gets an equal chance because you register at the same time. I remember freshman year, when a kid in my hall took 17 hours of classes but only 1 of those classes were for a divisonal. The other 13 hours he took were joke classes because all of the other classes were full and he could not take classes he wanted to take. Yes registration gets easier each semester because seniors get to register first, then juniors, and so on, but as a senior or junior, it doesn't matter because at that point you are registering for your major/minor classes anyways. Can you imagine a freshman who gets the last pick of classes because he randomly gets a scheduled time that is the last one possible? I would hate to be that kid.</p>

<p>3) The diversity is getting better (you have to take into account that athletes are considered into that percentage as well and athletes do take a huge chunk of that), but if you step into "the pit" nowadays you can see segregation among the students. It is not intended but subconscious. As for the plenty open-minded people? That is very hard to say. </p>

<p>4) I can agree with what you said</p>

<p>5) There is a difference between hard and being "screwed." You cannot tell students to briefly discuss a topic by giving x number of examples and then take 11 points off because someone else in the class wrote more examples or wrote more period. I went into my professor's office to discuss this and he told me that I had written down everything that he had asked for but had to take points off because some other student had written more and it would be unfair to that student.</p>

4

<p>Demon Deacon:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>I'm interested in what you found to do, both on and off campus, that was so entertaining. I know that Dawgs07 is not the only Wake student that feels that there is nothing to do here. I have many non-greek friends that complain that there is nothing to do on the weekends. If you don't go to frat parties or want to rent a DVD every single weekend then good luck!</p></li>
<li><p>I don't doubt that you were able to double major in 4 years. However, I believe the point that Dawgs07 was trying to make is that the point of going to a small, private, liberal arts school is defeated if frosh. and soph. students are unable to get into classes they are required to take to obtain a liberal arts education. </p></li>
<li><p>I'm glad you agree that 17% of racial diversity in the freshman class is not yet enough. However, I would like to point out that many of those students are athletes that most of us do not have the opportunity to interact with or, in many cases, even see off the football field or basketball court.<br>
Also, it may be true that 1/3 of students qualify for financial aid. And none of my friends have the view that Dawgs07's friend expressed. But that doesn't mean that I haven't experienced it. Many of the students here (driving around their BMW's, Lexus' SUV's, and Range Rovers) are often rude to fellow students (this I have experienced more times than I would like), and go about their life with an heir of superiority. </p></li>
<li><p>I'm not interested in not working hard. I'm interested in getting good grades. If I have to work hard (which I do) to do that, then so be it. But here at Work Forest, I work hard, and I get nothing in return other than professors giving impossible, subjective tests (seemingly for fun and to bewilder students) and mediocre grades. I want my grades to reflect the amount of work I do and my mastery of the class material. My grades here do not reflect that. I fear they never will. </p></li>
</ol>

<p>P.S. I AM ABSOLUTELY NOT ALONE IN THE WAY I FEEL ABOUT THESE POINTS. There are many other students just like me. I have talked to many of them extensively about these topics and they express the same frustration.</p>

5

<p>Dawgs and ElleBee:</p>

<p>First off, Dawgs. I am honestly sorry you are unhappy at Wake Forest. I do wish you the best of luck in the transfer process. Anyone who is unhappy anywhere in college, ought to consider transferring.</p>

<p>Wake Forest isn't a perfect place--and I wouldn't want to try to convince anyone that it is.</p>

<p>I sympathize with you about the "subjective" grading. A liberal arts school with lots of humanities requirements tend to be graded that way. Personally, I'd hate to see a multiple choice final exam in something like English, Political Science, or Philosophy. A lot of people get B's when they were used to getting A's in high school. I always trusted that the professors had years of training to make those sorts of judgments--and frankly, the students who got grades higher than me typically either worked harder or were just brighter than me. I'm not saying that you haven't had an unfair experience at Wake, just that they were rare in my experience.</p>

<p>A lot of my social life revolved around sports and the arts. With sports, I'm not just talking about basketball--I enjoyed things like soccer and field hockey too. And if intramurals aren't enough, join a club level sport. I had practice several times a week and travelled a bit on weekends.</p>

<p>Wake Forest and Winston-Salem also have a good arts communities. I actually went to plays on and off campus (North Carolina School of the Arts is amazing). If you are into arts at all, I highly recommend working backstage for a theatre production (they always need help) or auditioning if you like being on-stage. The drama group (both professors and students) are (imo) cool, open-minded, and pretty tight-nit. They hang out together and go to galleries or plays around town.</p>

<p>My advice anywhere you decide to go is simple: get involved in something you enjoy whether it be sports, arts, the radio station, the outdoor club, volunteering, or whatever. When you find like-minded people, you are more likely to have social outlets you enjoy on weekends. If you continue to hang out with the newly rushed KAs, you will have friends who like to get trashed on the weekend.</p>

<p>We all agree that Wake could still be more diverse, though any improvement that has happened recently cannot be attributed to athletes because those numbers would be flat unless Grobe and Prosser are suddently recruiting a much much higher percentage of minorities than in years past.</p>

<p>Self-segregation is a problem at Wake Forest. One of my friends at Duke (where diversity numbers are much better) says the same thing there about self-segregation. In the end, you may have to seek out diversity. Try attending some BSA activities just to mix up your social group a bit.</p>

<p>College, imo, is what you make of it. Wake Forest has what most people need--but sometimes it takes a concerted effort. </p>

<p>Just a couple of minutes on the WFU homepage, give me these things you can do this week (Sunday through Saturday):</p>

<p>Sunday: Field Hockey at WFU (in the final four) and "Big Fish"
Monday: either a film screening of "Osama" or several one act plays in the Ring Theatre
Tuesday: Secrest Artist Series (Afghan Musicians) and Film Documentary "Walmart: High Cost of Low Price"
Wednesday: Italian film series (Novecentre) or Student Band Showcase (Shorty's)
Thursday: Artisan Fair, Spanish Film series, Tibetan monks creating Sand Mandala.
Friday: On campus women's basketball game, mock trial judged by new SC Chief Justice John Roberts, and jazz concert at Reynolda House.
Saturday: On-campus women's volleyball, dance recital, and student chamber music concert.</p>

<p>I think the Field Hockey game (NCAA playoff) and the jazz concert are the only ones that cost anything--and they are under $10 in cost.</p>

<p>That's a lot of cheap things to do on or around campus. And I haven't even looked in the WSJ, NC School of the Arts homepage, or the Triad weekly magazines . . .</p>

6

<p>"So for kids at those schools who get a 92 in a class would get an 4.0 there, whereas here they would receive a 3.6."</p>

<p>Sorry to break it to you...but I teach at UNC and any student with a 92 in my class gets an A- which will give you a 3.7, not a 4.0.</p>

<p>Also, UNC isn't very racially diverse as you may think. The school I went to as an undergrad was much much much more racially diverse than here. UNC is a very preppy-white school with some minorities, but I don't see it being any more minority driven than Wake.</p>

7

<p>Clearly, you have never been to Wake. How can you say a public school is as racially diverse as a private school? UNC is a preppy-white school with little diversity? Visit Wake. You will then see what a preppy-white school looks like. </p>

<p>If you look at the stats of your own school, you will see that there is more minorities at your school then Wake. Wake has only made an attempt at increasing diversity this year with the freshman class, but if you go to the upperclassmen dorms you can definitely tell the absence of diversity.</p>

8

<p>Well, as you can probably tell, I am not an arts type of guy. So I guess this town is not my kind of town. </p>

<p>Have you ever been to a BSA event while attending Wake? I will personally say I have and trust me, those students make no effort to interact with you. I have even made an effort myself, but you cannot carry out a long conversation.</p>

<p>I am glad you have pulled up the events from the student webpage, but honestly, can you tell me that those are "social events?" With the exception of the mock trial with Justice Roberts and perhaps the field hockey game (only because it is the final four and playoffs), nobody ever goes to ANY of those events. If you do, you will be like one of five. I know because I have tried as well.</p>

9

<p>Demon Deacon, </p>

<p>I am acutally from the town of Winston-Salem and granted there is not much to do here. Going to Hanes Mall? Ooooooooo..yay for shopping if you got the money. Sears is the darn good way to go! :p The only good thing that does gives students to do is the Dixie Classic Fair but even that loses its luster. Downtown....great place...only 5-7 streets are considered SAFE enough to travel. I am not saying that downtown is bad place to hang out..it has a lot of interesting activities if you are interested in the arts. Intermural events....yes, that's good...if you can find a group of people to do it with. However, I am not an art buff. I personally don't like to hang out in a museum looking at countless pictures for two hours (don't get me wrong...art rocks. I love it but I prefer to be doing something else). </p>

<p>I have lived here at 10 years...it's boring around here...you will have to travel to Greensboro or Charlotte to get something out of the fun life here in the Triad. I find it so boring that even going to the arcade to play DDR is boring.....</p>

<p>School work and tests. There is a problem....and some people might disagree with me on it. Some classes, their grades are determined by 3 or 4 tests. If you study your hardest but never seem to test well, which is my case, it's hard. For example, Psychology class here, I studied my butt off but never seem to do well on the tests. Granted...some people might say that I am not focused or not studying the right material...however, I rather have more opportunities to do extra work or projects to "make up" for that test. To have 3 tests determine your score and if everyone of them were hard....that person just got screwed...right in the butt. </p>

<p>I will agree with Dawgs on this one.....Greek life is definitely the ONLY way to go to meet people. I have met countless people because I am part of Greek Life. However, for those who aren't....they seemed to be ostracized and are often bored. As for preppy students here....there's a bunch of people here who are rich and a bit snobbish. Only a few are acutally nice, decent people. I have tried going out to parties and meeting people..but it's so awkward sometimes when I, as a minority, approach them...they seem to walk away and talk to another person. </p>

<p>Another thing.....I don't even barely know my suite mates....I know probably two of the 6 guys in the hall....one is cooped up all the time with his gf...the other two...well.....they don't want to EVEN GO into our hall. </p>

<p>Yes, if you go around and actually do stuff, you will meet people...however...if one is not greek life or can't find intermural sports buddies...it's very hard.</p>

<p>All in all, Wake Forest is a tough place to live as well as learn...there are many obstacles. Some people will endure them..some people will move on..it depends on their opinion at it. Personally, if one is not happy...move on and do something else. </p>

<p>As for UNC, great school....I have a bunch of friends who go there and they have a great time there...at UNC I feel like there's more people I can relate too. Of course, everywhere you might go, there will be a white majority. However, UNC's 27% minority is a heck of a lot better than just 15% minority here at Wake.</p>

10

<p>Ok...Stuff to do here:</p>

<p>I have a girl friend here that plays a club sport and she is just as miserable as I am and is looking to transfer also. So I would have to say that Club sports are not always the answer. And when it comes to going to the soccer games and women's basketball games (which btw about 3 students attend), who wants to go by themselves? I love going to the men's basketball games. I think the screamin' Demons is one of Wake Forest's strong points. But, Good luck if you're not big into sports!<br>
Also, I don't know anyone who is as involved and has as big a passion for theater as you do. If you're into it,great!....but if not,again, good luck. </p>

<p>I have some great friends here. They have an attitude and life view similar to mine. But it is absolutely impossible to not experience the life views and attitudes of the the students you go to school with that are not your friends. And frankly, the majority attitude sucks. </p>

<p>I am involved with Student Union, a college women's bible study, and some other campus clubs. It hasn't helped much. And I do not hang out with the newly rushed KA's who get drunk every weekend. Greek life has an undeniable monopoly on social life at Wake. I do not appreciate it that you have made the assumption that I (nor any of the others that have responded) have made "a concerted effort" to enjoy their stay here at Wake. I have attended BSA events. The minority students make no attempt at interacting with white students. It's actually rather uncomfortable. I am dating an Asian student here. I met him through a pre-school program with the intention to make new friends before school started and get a head start on enjoying my career here at wake. I have made other minority friends through him. Had I not participated in this pre-school program I would have NO minority friends. I am white and have a bi-racial family (by adoption) and racial diversity is very important to me in my life. Again, do not tell me, or perspective students, that making an "effort" will solve all of these problems.</p>

11

<p>Maybe I'm an artsy dork, but yes--I would say that "Big Fish," "Wal-Mart: High Price of Low Cost," the Secrest Artist series, and a jazz performance at Reynolda House are all decent things for a student to do. And though there won't be half the school at tomorrow night's Secret Artist concert, Wake has both a band and an orchestra with plenty of people interested in free, high quality, international music. Wake is a liberal arts school, and I'm always puzzled by people who go to a liberal arts school who don't have the slightest interest in the fine arts. </p>

<p>And while Wake Forest was never been a haven for dating, I do know people who actually asked someone on a date--even if that just meant going to a movie down Reynolda Road. I'd guess ElleBee (who I sense is female) would verify that most girls at Wake would welcome something like that on a Friday night.</p>

<p>Since you asked, though, I'll also add that I had (and still have) several close friends who added to Wake's diversity. I attended a couple of BSA events --though probably not as many as I could have--and the group seemed friendly enough to me. Honestly, I am surprised by your experience.</p>

<p>Like I said, I feel bad that you haven't enjoyed your experience thus far. I do hope that you find what you are looking for whereever that might be. I enjoyed my experience and found that I simply didn't have enough time do everything that I wanted to do.</p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

12

<p>Ella Bee and others:</p>

<p>I'm sorry that you and others have had such a bad experience at BSA events. Perhaps I was lucky. I don't know.</p>

<p>I know how you feel about Greek life seeming to dominate campus, but I also know that there are plenty of people who are looking to do something else. Most of my friends were independents and we'd do our own thing on weekends whether it be sports, arts, movie rentals, video games, or--yes--even some drinking. Once you graduate and have a job, I hope you remember even those times fondly.</p>

<p>I hope things get better. And while things might not get better even if you keep trying, they definitely will not get better if you quit.</p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

13

<p>Well to answer you question, Dawgs07, I think you probably have a good chance at those three schools but a lot will depend on your situation and outside circumstances. For instance, how many other kids apply. Are you a minority? What state are you from? What courses have you taken at Wake? All these things will probably have a large impact on your status and could push you over the edge.</p>

<p>As for the other parts, everyone has different opinions on schools. I go to Wake and just last year was thinking of transfering. I love it now, but I can certainly see where you are coming from. Personally, I wish Winston was more of a college town but it isn't. I am greek and I certainly feel that it has played a large role in my happiness here at school. Keep looking around, Wake still might surprise you, but best of luck to whatever you decide.</p>

<p>-Deacon86</p>

14

<p>Blah Blah Blah!!!</p>

15

<p>I know this is an old thread, but curious where dawg ended up? My son just finished fresh. year at Wake. Started off rough--tons of work and yes very hard grading. Though profs have always made themselves available and he was able to get into any class he really wanted off of waitlist. My daughter in law went to Chapel Hill--totally different atmosphere--much heavier partying, very little advising, and many classes where notes were posted online and students didn't even attend. Once she got into major classes, the class sizes were smaller and she had better advising.</p>

16

<p>I've never been to Wake. But I can tell you that a lot of schools are "Majority greek" or have an A- grading policy- including really good schools like Stanford. I think a part of college is learning how to deal with these things because even if you transfer out, you will, most likely, have to face one or more of these same problems. In any humanities class, writing is an integral part of the curriculum. YOu can't analyze text by multiple choice. If you knew this professor was grading based on length, why didn't you use it to your advantage and just write more on the next exam...</p>

<p>Every school has its problems and running away really doesn't fix anything.</p>