<p>You are right neatoburrito - the secondary schools look at the profile of the school the student is coming from. Yes, it could indicate a weak school. It's one possibility.<br>
My son scored 75% on the math SSAT (in the 90's overall though due to high verbal and reading). He was getting A's and A+'s in math at a challenging private day school with an excellent reputation. I called and asked several schools about it - none of them - including a "top" school - were concerned.<br>
They want to know you can do the work at their school.<br>
I'm just pointing out there are many things low SSAT's/high grades could mean and it does not *always *diminish the grades.</p>
<p>I am positive that many Admission officers have had the experience of accepting a student with great grades and SSAT scores who then failed miserably at their school. There are many more success stories where admission officer(s) took a gamble on a kid that they felt had something that would and did make them a success at the school and beyond. Those are the stories A/O love to tell.
A/O are well aware of the caliber of the school from which many of the applicants come from when looking at grades. Again I concur with Linda S, not all kids test well when it comes to the SSAT, being unaware of the strategies of test taking which can be easily accomplished once taught. The schools are looking for well rounded individuals. It is fair to say that at the BS the OP mentioned the average students are academically high achievers. I reiterate that there are many great BS with impressive facilities and dedicated faculty that don't get enough praise on CC.</p>
<p>
[quote]
i reiterate that there are many great bs with impressive facilities and dedicated faculty that don't get enough praise on cc.
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absolutely!!!</p>
<p>Linda S, if your son was in the 90s overall, he was in a very different situation. The grades and teacher comments from "a challenging private day school with an excellent reputation" would put everything else in context. (Also, note that a 75 math sub score is above the opening poster's range of scores.)</p>
<p>Yes, you are right periwinkle, however in that case I was also commenting on Italianboarder's comment that low SSAT would diminish high grades and I disagree.<br>
The point I was trying to make is that a low SSAT score does not necessarily diminish good grades. There could be many reasons why and many other things they look at. That's all.</p>
<p>I agree with italianboarder that low SSAT scores diminish strong grades. I know of several cases where the SSAT scores were much more reliable in predicting a student's success/failure at elite boarding schools than were grades. And I know several dozen nearly straight A students who cannot handle the work at elite preps. For example, a public school student with all As--not a single B--from the most selective magnet public school in the Philadelphia area failed during her first year at one of the elite boarding schools even though she was quite comfortable socially. After repeating two courses during summer school after her first year at boarding school, she was allowed to reenter at the lower grade (she was allowed to repeat her freshman year at the same boarding school). This student's teacher recs were as outstanding as her grades, yet she was unable to handle the work. Her SSATs were below that year's median of 90 (I don't recall the average, but she was in the high 70s or very low 80s). And this was a mature student with solid work habits.
It may help to know that the SSAT (totally unrelated to the SAT) was created by a group of elite Northeastern boarding schools (including all mentioned in this thread) to offer a level comparison of students from different areas of the country & different school systems since so many students entering with high grades had trouble with the academic demands of these elite, academic powerhouse boarding schools. This proves italianboarders point, at least in the opinion of the most selective boarding schools in the country, and, in this case, that is all that matters.
It is also important to note that an SSAT score in the mid-60s and above indicates a high degree of intelligence; certainly enough to get through law school or medical school if the student has a strong interest in that area and is willing to do the work necessary. It is hard to imagine the academic demands placed on the students at the most academically selective boarding schools. Many of these students find their first year at ultra selective colleges & universities to be easier than boarding school.</p>
<p>The other thing that I would be concerned with about lower scores would be the student's preparation to date. If the student's current school does not really prepare the student at a very high level, and the student does not have outside enrichment, then the other students may be way ahead in certain things like math and science. An avid reader, who is also a good writer, might not be so far behind regardless of school prep in english or history courses. However, math and science are another story.</p>
<p>Of the many posts that I've read on this forum (and that's quite a few), Ops' post #16 contains the best quote ever...</p>
<p>"Tierlevelitis is contagious"</p>
<p>below 80% is a little risky for the ones in TSAO</p>
<p>We were told by one of the top schools that they look for an 85% or higher. If a student has a lower score, (that they believe is a fit) then they will do additional research to see if they feel that the student can handle the work load.</p>
<p>The important thing to remember that there are a lot of great schools out there. Most of the people we know in BS never even considered or cared about andover or Exeter. Be open minded and you will find a great place for you.</p>
<p>I gotta agree with that one. I mean out of any school those are the ones with some of the biggest application pools to pick from... Alot of people apply to those schools. Not every 20% of people going to boarding school apply to A/E though... I took my SSAT saturday and I was the only person applying to Exeter, and only one girl applying to Andover. Most wanted to get into "Southern" Boarding schools. McCallie and Episcopal were the only schools that everyone(except myself) were applying to.</p>
<p>The key to what Warriorboy said is if the score is lower they will research. It doesn't automatically exclude you.<br>
Mid-80's puts you in the game EVERYWHERE. Below that does not rule you out, the school just needs to do more research.</p>
<p>"Below that does not rule you out, the school just needs to do more research." But they won't necessarily do that research, for an applicant whose scores are remarkably low for the school, unless your application appeals to them. This is probably where hooks come into play.</p>
<p>It's a matter of time. The OP posed the situation of an applicant with scores between 50 and 70 on the SSAT, applying to Andover & Exeter. Andover's website lists 12 admissions officers, most of whom have other duties to perform. Andover receives 2,386 completed applications, almost 200 applications per officer. However, many school admissions offices try to have each application read by different readers. One school claimed four people reads each application! I don't think we're looking at Andover, so I can't vouch for their practices, but I doubt it's less rigorous than other good schools. Factor in other duties, and the time needed for admissions interviews, and road trips, and conferences, and these people don't have huge amounts of free time to investigate every applicant in detail. </p>
<p>If their music people have been giving them grief because they haven't been getting musical students, that may make the application of a talented oboe player more interesting. It may be worth their while to contact some of the named references, to get a feeling for the applicant's potential. Likewise, an outstanding athlete, who has good character references, may not need to worry as much about scores. So on for the rest of the usually named hooks, and probably for some applicant who seemed truly nice, or who struck the interviewer as worth investigating.</p>
<p>However, a kid with average scores, 50%, who doesn't stand out from the pool in other ways, shouldn't get their hopes up about acceptance from the elite schools.</p>
<p>What is better to get into a school with:</p>
<p>Good SSAT's with ok grades, or SSAT's on the lower side and good grades?</p>
<p>I would say it depends on the profile of your current school and what classes you are currently taking. If your school has a good profile and you are taking upper level classes, good grades and "lower side" would be better (depends on how "low" you mean).<br>
In general, good SSAT's and Ok grades can indicate a smart kid who isn't trying. Not horrible, but would need to be addressed in the interview/essay.<br>
But then it depends on the school as well. Most schools put less emphasis on the SSAT than grades.
Just my opinion.</p>
<p>In my oh-so-humble opinion, I think that good SSATs means a smart kid who's undermotivated with sub-par work ethic whom doesn't try in school, and a kid with lower SSATs and good grades means a capable kid that's motivated and trys their best in school possessing great work ethic.</p>
<p>The former meaning they have 'potential' but you may need to pull it out of them (not sure if many schools would want to take that on), and the latter meaning that there isn't necessarily room for GREAT improvement, but they are eager and very easy to work with great work ethic and will always give 110%.</p>
<p>As always, this is never the case 100% of the time and each kid is unique - meaning the one with the higher grades could have just been having an off day, and vice versa with the 'OK' graded kid - but nonetheless, I'm sure it's applicable to some degree.</p>
<p>Is it possible to get a scholarship with a low SSAT score. Is it possible to argue that I had a bad morning that is why I performed below average. What can admission officers use as a common denominator for different grading systems etc.</p>
<p>My 2 cents:</p>
<p>Yes, all of these schools use SSAT scores as one measurement by which to judge and compare applicants. However...</p>
<p>SSAT scores indicate how well a student performs on an SSAT test. SAT scores do NOT indicate how well a student will perform in college and I suspect that there is a similar correlation to be made (or not) with SSAT performance.</p>
<p>Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.</p>
<p>Iowa--yes, financial need is supposedly determined by a financial formula, but if a school really wants you, you may be offered more aid.</p>
<p>Such an interesting thread. baseball mom, I agree with you about SAT not proving how well a student will do in college, but I think the SSAT is different, and does actually have a value in this sense. Students scoring below 50% usually have some deficiencies, and need extra support in high school. Students below 20% usually have some fairly serious LD. Students who score above 85% are often so bright that they scare me! So a lot can be read from students with scores in those extremes. But for those scoring 55-80th percentile, I agree--they are just bright kids and who knows how they will do in high school?</p>