Can I Transfer a Nomination?

Colleges and Universities A-Z Naval Academy - Annapolis
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<p>I've applied to both the Air Force and Naval Academies, and I am unsure as to which I'd rather go to if I'm accepted. I applied for nominations from my congressman and ONE of my senators, and ranked my academy preference 1. USNA; 2. USAFA; 3. USMA; 4. USMMA on each for the sake of consistency.</p>

<p>I was recently nominated to USNA by my congressman. I have a feeling that if my senator also nominates me, it will be to USNA as well. I'd rather have one to each USNA and USAFA. Can I contact my senator and notify her office that I'll prioritize USAFA for her nomination? Furthermore, if she nominates me to USNA, is that nomination transferable to USAFA?</p>

<p>Thanks!</p>

2

<p>FWIW, the guidance we are given (I’m a BGO) is that you should always apply to ALL the nomination sources for which you are eligible. </p>

<p>For others interested in applying in the future, you give yourself a much greater chance of securing a nomination - a required step in appointment - by doing that. I’ve seen it hurt candidates in the past who have only applied to one and not all of their sources, so I wouldn’t recommend it in the future.</p>

<p>As far as this question goes, I’m sure you could call or email the Academy Coordinator for your Senator and indicate your preference, but from my experience most of the nominations are already done for this cycle, and notifications are going out now. Perhaps your Senator’s schedule is different, though, and there is still time to change. What state are you applying from?</p>

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<p>It would be Senator Cantwell from WA. If I email her office explaining my situation, do you think they’d be willing to make a change for me?</p>

<p>The reason I said USNA as my first preference for both was because I wanted to be consistent. I didn’t want to tell one that my first choice was AFA while the other that my top priority was USNA–would that have been honest?</p>

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<p>Well the Senator’s office said they can’t make a change. However, do you think they’ll notice that I already have a nomination to one academy and will there not give me another to that same academy?</p>

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<p>It seems that you are attempting to “game” the system. Your first choice either is or isn’t the NA; you listed it as such, so now you live with the consequences.</p>

<p>It is not likely the Congressman communicates witht eh Senator’s office re: your nominatoin. If it was the othre Senator, the answer would be different. Sen/Sen communication happens regularly re: nominations. If they do communicate, however, what is more likely is that the Senator’s office simply won’t offer you a nominaton; figuring that you already have one.
Not to say that some don’t receive botha Sen. and Rep. nomination; it happens.</p>

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<p>I’m not trying to “game the system”. If I already have a nomination to USNA from one source, and have applied to BOTH USNA and USAFA directly, why would a second nom. for USNA do me any good?! Since they aren’t transferable, I would want it to be to USAFA…</p>

<p>Here’s why I put USNA as my top choice on both nomination applications: it’s honestly my first choice. But why have two nominations two it? How is that “gaming” the system in the least?</p>

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<p>The issue before is you is the uncomfortable position of having to examine your own personal desire and make a life choice - Navy or Air Force. Let me say, all interservice ribbing aside, that neither is a bad choice, but you, and only you, have to make one.</p>

<p>It’s commendable that you chose to say USNA was your first choice - to be consistent - but I suspect (having been through this myself and watching my own two oldest kids go through it) that you probably thought USNA was your first choice at some point in time. It’s probably time to reflect on what you really want to do.</p>

<p>It’d be nice to be able to have two SA’s to choose from, but at some point you’re going to need to make that choice, and it sounds as if perhaps that situation may be being thrust upon you now, and perhaps earlier than what you might have wanted.</p>

<p>Let me ask you this: If USNA comes through with an appointment, will you accept, or will you reconsider and perhaps think that maybe you should reapply next year for USAFA? You don’t need to answer now; take some time to think about the right fit for you. It’s going to mean a commitment to up to two years, and when you go to your first day of class in your junior year at an SA, the next 7 years (minimum) of your life. It’s a momentous decision. Take some time to think about it.</p>

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<p>USNA84</p>

<p>That’s a thought that’s been crossing my mind for several months, almost years. You’re absolutely right. However, in order to minimize the possibility of me denying an appointment to an academy in order to reapply to one that I simply didn’t get a nomination to due to my method, what would you recommend I do? i.e. maximize chances of getting nominated/appointed to both so I wouldn’t have to reapply the next year. Of course, the decision will have to be made no matter what… I’d simply rather not have “do I want to wait another year” as part of that decision process.</p>

<p>Thanks for the insightful reply, by the way.</p>

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<p>I hate to sound all “Dad” here, but you’re the only person who can make that decision. You’re allowed to be selfish in this case; make the decision that suits you best. Don’t worry, if you turn down USNA, somebody else will get to go. The tragedy would be that you go, decide you don’t really want to be there, and decide to leave USNA. Then, the appointment gets wasted.</p>

<p>We spend a lot of time telling our kids to keep their options open, but at some point you will need to start making choices that close off some of those options. My advice: think about it, decide what you want to do, commit to that decision and don’t look back.</p>

<p>You’re really deciding about which service you want to serve in ultimately, irrespective of how you get commissioned. The academy decision should be a step in that process, not an ultimate goal.</p>

<p>So, think about it, talk to people you trust to give you good advice, and make your choice. That’s about the best I can tell you.</p>

<p>PM me if you want and we can exchange contact details and speak live.</p>

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<p>And, while this may be redundant to your insights and understanding, USNA and USAFA are very different experiences …as are USN and USAF cultures. VERY. Once one gets this, this speicific choice might become crystal clear.</p>

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<p>USNA84, thank you. I may take you up on this.</p>

<p>Whistle Pig: I’ve read Bob Norris’s article about the differences between the USN and USAF, but do you have any thoughts on the cultural differences and demands of each branch, specifically for pilots? Throughout this process, I’ve tended to focus primarily on the academies themselves, but still can’t fully comprehend the differences between them (haven’t visited). Could you briefly elaborate on the differences in academies as well?</p>

<p>USNA84 or anybody else is welcome to add their thoughts. I can’t tell you how much I’d appreciate it.</p>

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<p>Because if USNA is “honestly” your first choice, then you don’t need the USAFA nomination. Either the USAFA nomination is irrelevant or you are not being honest with yourself. </p>

<p>Two nominations [not sure if this is official word or not; I don’t recall], seems to increase your “value” to an academy. [Again, I’m not sure if this adds to whole person score or not] Think about it, the Academy does not get to see you except through the eyes of teh BGO and the nominating sources. If two nominations support you, that gives the Admissions Board some additional insight as in: “Wow, this must be a really great kid if BOTH Rep. and Sen. have nominated this kid.” Ergo, IF NA is your first choice [as stated], then you should be excited about getting two nominations. </p>

<p>But, the real point is that you listed NA as first. You either meant it or you didn’t.
good luck.</p>

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<p>If I do not get in this year and decide to apply to both academies again next year, would it be considered dishonest to apply for two nominations but put AFA as first choice on one while putting NA as first choice on the other? I’m honestly that torn between the two.</p>

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<p>I think “dishonest” might be a strong word, but consider this. The Academy Coordinators from the Senators and Congressmen do speak with each other - particularly in those competitive states - so it might appear odd if you told your Senators one thing and your Congressman another. </p>

<p>Again, with my unsolicited advice, pick up the phone and call them. Explain to them that you are undecided - if you are. You aren’t the first person who’s had this dilemma, and you won’t be the last. I had to choose between West Point (nominated by my Congressman) and USNA (nominated by my Senator), and I received appointments to both.</p>

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<p>I’ll differ in my opining. Call it what it is. Dishonest. Not too strong at all. Why pull this punch? The HONEST answer is simple. And it cannot be that BOTH USNA and USAFA are a candidate’s #1 choice. </p>

<p>Sorry, but this is as plain and straightforward as can be. Ironically, in asking the question, hoaxbuster is closer to knowing the truth than responding and trying to ride the proverbial barbed wire fence.</p>

<p>This is a good early litmus test as to whether a SA where honor, honesty, openess, the truth, whole truth, nothing but the truth are pursued with vigor …is the right place. And maybe a better post-graduate exam to see who “got it?”</p>

<p>The question is a forced choice answer, not a non-choice answer. And if the 2nd time around it remains a non-choice? Well, that may be telling, too. </p>

<p>Can only have one #1 girl …unless maybe one is Mormon or muslim? We all get the problem. We’ve all been there. Not wanting to make a decision. Unfortunately, “Undecided” is not an option.</p>

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<p>Thehoaxbuster: While the definition of honor may remain constant over the decades, the SA selection process and nom selection process has changed. Some people giving you advice went through this process when the number of applicants were much smaller and MOCs actually reviewed you for your first SA choice and “alternative” choices. Now many (most?) MOCs have SA specific nom review boards that are only considering you for one SA.</p>

<p>Add in the SAs needing to increase their URM enrollment and the obstacles to you receiving an appointment are different than what some of the other helpful posters experienced 20-30 years ago. Another possibility: What if you were a female applicant in 1980 when the SAs were making a concerted effort to recruit women; would your situation in 1980 be the same as a white male applicant for the class of 2015?</p>

<p>I’ve sent you a PM with a link to another discussion about your question of whether you should list different SAs on different MOCs preference forms. Good Luck.</p>

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<p>Once again, rarely, I think WP is correct. He even states in [mostly] a reasonable fashion his point. [Although Mormon’s officially disavowed polygamy over a century ago.]</p>

<p>Hoaxbuster is much like the proverbial dog holding a bone while seeing its reflection in a pool of water. Dropping the bone to grab the bone from the other “dog”, Buster ends up with no bone in pursuit of two.</p>

<p>Logically, your proposed course of action makes no sense. [If I were teh BGO writing this one up, I would definitely question your course of action and submit it accordingly.] You give up the SURE NA nomination in year 1, in order to pursue a POSSIBLE AF/NA nomination in year 2? Silly.</p>

<p>WP correct [and as I stated earlyier], NA is either your first choice [honestly!!!] or not. If not, then pursue the AF nomination next year and be done with it.</p>

<p>In any event, all of this discussion will be for naught if you actually receive an appointment. Let’s see how fast you go to the mailbox and accept if you receive that.</p>

<p>Always interesting.</p>

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<p>Choosing which SA to go to is a tough choice, made all that much tougher when your limited frame of reference is based on (maybe) attendance at Summer Seminar (or the WP and USAFA equivalents), a campus visit (not as likely when you live far away), and perhaps talking to grads, current Mids/Cadets, or the BGO/MALO/ALO.</p>

<p>Maybe some colleges ask applicants if their institution is the applicant’s first choice, but I suspect most do not. Sure, Early Action or Early Decision is one way to determine whether or not somebody really wants to go to school at a particular university or college, but no one is likely to pin you down as to whether Harvard or Stanford is your first choice.</p>

<p>The reason Congressmen/women and Senators ask on the nomination packages is to a) make sure they know which school to nominate the applicant for, and b) in hyper-competitive states to “screen out” those who don’t have USNA/USAFA/USMA/USMMA ranked as their number one choice. Our previous Senator in Virginia used to call kids - or have his proxies do it - and ask them if they would consider USMMA instead of USNA. The tactic was to gauge whether or not the kid really wanted to go to USNA. A yes answer to the question “Would you consider USMMA?” would get them removed from the USNA nom list. That’s despicable in my mind.</p>

<p>So, while you might question the “honesty” of an 18 year old (kinda crazy to do so, IMO), I think the better approach is to do exactly what I recommended and go away and think about it.</p>

<p>The “USNA must be your first choice” mentality sounds a lot like USNA69 to me. What do these kids REALLY know about being at USNA at this point? “Nuthin’” (mostly) is the answer. Cut the kid a break. The process is tough enough as it is.</p>

<p>To aglages, true, my frame of reference is 30 years old, but I am a BGO, a parent of a grad (2010), and a current Mid who is soon to graduate. Both were accepted to USNA and USMA (and not with PNOM’s but MOC noms), and we live in one of the most competitive states for USNA - Virginia. Those circumstances and choices happen a lot more than perhaps you know.</p>

<p>So, there’s nothing wrong with wanting choices, but you do have to choose at some point. Maybe we could try a little more carrot and a little less stick when giving advice… ;)</p>

<p>PS - I sit on the selection board for nominations for my Congressman, and we (alumni and retired officers) meet with candidates in November/December. It’s not a panel interview, and we don’t interview all the candidates - we get a list of 8-10 kids and the other two teams interview 8-10 other candidates. We do the interviews in pairs to get more than one perspective, and more often than not, I am teamed with a WP or USAFA guy. So, we interview candidates for all of the Big 3 SA’s, not just the one (or service) we are from. I think it’s a great process, and we often hear from kids that they are undecided on which one to pick, but we do try to get them to tell us which SA is their strongest preference.</p>

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<p>I’ve emailed the Senator’s office with the simple request that they change my preference rank (they said they can’t do that). If they nominate me to USNA, I feel like I’ll do one of the following:</p>

<ul>
<li><p>Call my senator’s office asking if they will kindly find a way to switch the nomination to USAFA</p></li>
<li><p>Call my congressman’s office asking if they would switch the nomination to AFA.</p></li>
</ul>

<p>Is this possible?</p>

<p>I live in a fairly populous district in Washington State, so this could be tricky. It’s just that every day, I’m finding more and more that I should have put AFA as my first choice. I want to be a pilot, and while catapulting off a carrier would be a great way to serve my country, I feel that the Air Force has more options available to me if I end up not qualifying for a pilot slot.</p>

<p>Also, If I decide that I’d truly be happier as an Air Force officer than a Naval officer, I could decide to go to regular college for a year and try and transfer in to AFA.</p>

<p>As low as the USAFA acceptance rate is all ready, would it be further lowered for me being a transfer student who has already applied once? My qualifications would be increased if I waited another year (i.e. I’d have a stronger resume for sure).</p>

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<p>You can always call, but that ship has probably already sailed, to coin a phrase. Probably too late, in other words.</p>

<p>Ok, so I will say this to you regarding Naval Aviation. The choices in Naval Aviation are every bit as diverse as those in the Air Force. Jets, helos, props and land-based aircraft. I was a Naval Flight Officer and served with the Air Force as an instructor at the Navigator School from 90-93 out in Sacramento, California. So, if you’re thinking that the career opportunities as a pilot are better in the USAF, I would tell you that’s probably not the case. Both are pretty equal.</p>

<p>So, here’s my USNA “snob” disclaimer. I will also tell you this about the Air Force. It’s a service dominated by pilots. You may be medically qualified to be a pilot today, but in two or three years’ time, you may not. My dad was an Air Force officer. His words, “If you’re not a pilot in the Air Force, you’re not s**t.” He was a Navigator, BTW. A big part of the reason I did not apply to USAFA. I didn’t have 20/20 vision, so pilot (at that time) was not an option.</p>

<p>The Naval Academy offers probably the most diverse range of career choices of any of the big three SA’s. You like options, right? USNA has more options than you can shake a stick at. Pilot, NFO, SWO, Submarines, Marines, Special Forces.</p>

<p>Not sure about USAFA and reapplicants. I know USNA loves reapplicants. You need to take a “Plebe” curriculum, i.e. Calculus, Chemistry, foreign language, English, History, etc., and do well. You’ll significantly increase your chances if you do.</p>

<p>Sounds like you’re making your decision, but don’t give up on USNA just yet. Talk to some USNA grads who are pilots. I can get you in touch with some if you don’t know any. Drop me a PM.</p>