Can it ever be too late?

In a few months I am graduating from Temple University’s Japan Campus as an International Business Major. Starting a few weeks ago I’ve been going through bad memories of struggling with depression and a negative environment in high school. I often get consumed with jealousy of those who go to more elite universities especially now that I have been focusing on grad schools and job-hunting. There’s always a part of me that wishes I could have tried harder and understood the value of getting into a good university.The low-status of my school has always bothered me, but now more than ever I have been spiraling into a depression not able to get the regrets of the past off my mind. I’ve even tortured myself by watching YouTube videos of student life at Harvard, just wishing I could be a part of it.

What I would like to know is if I’ll ever have a second chance to enter in a top school. Can I go back and retake my ACTs, apply for a second undergraduate degree at a top school and get in despite my low HS GPA? Is it possible to go from a state school to an ivy league for grad school with a college GPA of 3.44 and an amazing GMAT score? Or is it time to kiss those dreams good bye?

I have been an underachiever but intellectual and “ahead of the class” from a young age, but I don’t know if there is a realistic way for me to get into an ivy or top 20. I really don’t want to lose hope, but I also want to know the honest truth.

First of all, if you are about to graduate from university, then no one cares any more what your high school grades were, and no one will ever ask you about these again. High school will not hold you back at all going forward.

Secondly, life at the ivy leagues is not always completely wonderful. Don’t believe everything that you see in a youtube video, or at least don’t believe that this is a complete story. The US in general seems to have a rather exaggerated obsession with the Ivy League. There are 8 very good universities in the Ivy League, but there are hundreds more very good universities that are NOT in the Ivy League. For the vast majority of students the best match is not in the ivy league.

Studying in Japan seems real cool to me, particularly for an international business major. This sounds like it was the sort of opportunity that makes other people jealous!

Depression is very common. At the risk of repeating myself from a different discussion: Many famous and very successful people have suffered from depression. A professor that I know has told me that the majority of his smartest and most thoughtful students have suffered from depression at some point in their life. If you search through CC then you will see a few other threads about this. Have you been treated? Treatment takes time (particularly getting the treatment right), but can be very helpful for most people who suffer from depression.

You have very good grades, and an important major. You have international experience. Do you speak more than one language?

In principle you can go back and get another undergraduate degree. However, if you like your major or anything more or less related to your major, then graduate work such as a Master’s degree is likely to be more practical. Most of the top universities in the US, and elsewhere in the world, have graduate programs that surpass their undergraduate programs (if not in size, then at least in quality and prestige). If you are interested in international business, you could consider top universities in the US, but you can also consider top universities outside of the US.

If you have suffered from depression, then you should get this treated effectively before you look to graduate schools (or a second undergraduate degree).

Yes. Address your depression first. At some point, you hopefully will start working. Maybe you will work at that first job for a year or two and move onto an even better job. Then look into MBA programs – study for the GMAT and see if you can get accepted into the top programs that you dream about.

DadTwoGirls,

Thank you so much for your reply. I feel a little better. I am not entirely fixated on ivy league, I just want to go to a top school with smart and ambitious students. Do you think a 3.44 GPA out of Temple offers me a good shot at a top school for an MBA or second undergrad degree? For a school that is as mid-range as Temple, would the GPA standards be higher in comparison to other applicants? I really want to focus on getting a good GMAT score, how much can that compensate though?

Also, I have been treated for depression throughout middle school and high school, but then stopped receiving therapy as it was ineffective. Thankfully after after the age of nineteen or twenty repeating cycles of melancholy have ended and now I just go through short episodes. At the very least I could say its manageable, I just want to go and do something about the sources of my depression and I think a part of that is my lack of achievements.

I do feel lucky to be here in Japan and I am currently working on passing the highest level proficiency exam for Japanese, but its going to take some time as I have just failed the second highest level by few points in December. Would this at all help my application? I was under the impression that being bilingual is too common to stand out.

“being bilingual is too common to stand out.”

There are a lot of bilingual people in the world. However, the number of bilingual people with a degree in international business is a lot smaller. The number with this degree who have lived in the US and in Japan is smaller still. My wife is bilingual, and has said that this was helpful for every job that she has ever had (she is not in international business, but being bilingual is probably even more helpful in your field than in hers). Also, having lived in Japan gives you another view of the world that cannot be achieved any other way. That is one reason that I mentioned the possibility that when you get to look into graduate schools you might want to look at schools outside of the US in addition to schools in the US. There are many great universities in the UK, Australia, and Canada, just to mention one set of options.

I have heard that having an appropriate score on language tests is important to demonstrate your ability. Passing the second highest level in the proficiency exam sounds like something that you should be able to do with a bit more practice.

“For a school that is as mid-range as Temple, would the GPA standards be higher in comparison to other applicants?”

I don’t think that you should think of Temple as mid-range. Think of it as a very good university that gave you the opportunity to study in Japan. For international business that is huge. Some guy sitting in a dorm in Harvard Square can get a strong education, but he can’t get the same experience.

To be honest I have not ever thought about getting an MBA, so I am not sure what it takes to get into a top school. I would think that work experience would be an important consideration – at least it SHOULD be an important consideration – I don’t want the world run by people who studied theory straight through without working in the real world. I have heard that the GMAT is quite important also.

Thank you again for your suggestions and advice. I really want to focus all my energy on the GMAT now. I know my experience in Japan is valuable, but I want to get good job offers in the US and with a Temple degree, the companies I have my mind on seem so far out of reach when comparing alumni from Temple and other schools.

Also, after interning for GE in Tokyo I wanted to join a GE leadership program in the US but was told that my application likely won’t be considered without coming from a GE “target school” or having an officers recommendation. Its things like that which really make me regret my past choices in high school.

“Also, after interning for GE in Tokyo I wanted to join a GE leadership program in the US but was told that my application likely won’t be considered without coming from a GE “target school” or having an officers recommendation.”

Can you get a senior person from the GE Tokyo office to put in a recommendation for you?

That’s maybe possible, but I’m not sure about an officer’s recommendation.

Getting to an Ivy League grad school with a 3.44 GPA will be a stretch I think. But there’s lots of good schools with wholistic admissions processes that will be a bit more realistic and still provide awesome opportunities.

You need to talk to a counselor…you need to get over the obsession with undergraduate and get a job and or go to graduate school. Stop focusing on one program/college and go to your College’s career office and start signing up for interviews.

And what is wrong with Temple anyway?

Your experience is fascinating! Graduating in Int’l Bus in Japan?!? Love it! Yes, please seek help for your feelings and concerns, and prepare to move on to the next phase of your life. No, don’t get another undergrad. You have an awesome track to something better. Are you looking at international money center banks? Stack the deck on the competition with an MBA. Ivy or not, look forward, not backwards.