<p>(1) If you want a career in Investment Banking or big Consulting job, then OKlahoma is a bad choice. The tuition paid is nothing if you can get a IB job later on.
(2) To a lesser degree, if you want to get in a prestigous Ph.D. program, your undergraduate degree from Oklahoma is not helpful.</p>
<p>D is a high school senior and NMSF (only one in her class), and we struggle with this question almost daily - full ride to a "lower tier" school or pay the @ $180,000 4 year tab at many "upper tier" schools? Our thoughts run the gammet -</p>
<p>*<em>she's a small town Midwest girl - will she "fit in" with the kids who attend those "upper tier" schools? or will she find the many forms of diversity (religion, race, socioeconomic, etc.) exciting?
*</em>she's always been #1, the best, the brightest - how will she handle possibly being "middle of the pack" at an "upper tier school"? Will it be a blessing or a burden to be surrounded by equal or "more advanced" minds?
*<em>conversely, will she be challenged/stimulated at a school with 75-100 NMSFs, or simply bored to tears?
*</em>if we somehow manage to pay the 4 year tuition at an "upper tier school", will it REALLY provide her any tangible benefits in the future? How will we be able to finance graduate/professional school if savings is depleted on undergraduate? On the flip side, we would gladly foot the bill for a school that provides the environment that lets her soar.</p>
<p>Elder D attends large state U - lives in honors housing and enrolled in honors program. We have not been impressed with honors program. Seems to offer very little in the way of "social activities' - we were hoping this would be a way she could meet "like minded students" in a social setting. Honors classes are great when you can actually GET IN THEM!! Since enrollment starts with seniors, then juniors, etc., honors classes are often full by the time your enrollment date rolls around. That honors chemistry class of 20 is full and your only option is the "regular" class of 800+. Elder daughter goes with the flow and doesn't seem bothered by it, but we think younger sis would wilt on the vine in a class of 800.</p>
<p>I say that we struggle with this idea daily, but we struggle only in the silence of our own thoughts. We take her to visit the "free rides" and the $180K schools with equal enthusiasm. The final choice will be hers.</p>
<p>Midwest Parent</p>
<p>The final choice is hers, but please bring up these issues with her, positive and negative. Have older sister give input about her experiences as well. Only your daughter can answer these questions about herself, and she may not really have insight into these issues - honestly no one knows for certain about may of these questions until it is way past time to change anything!</p>
<p>But, the best any child can do with such life changing choices before her, is to think them through and talk them through, as his or her own personality leads. I strongly feel the parents' obligation (not even role or job, but obligation) is to set clear, realistic guidelines about finances and to mentor, soundingboard, mirror, whatever you want to call it, the child through this thought process. </p>
<p>Keep your enthusiasm equal, keep your opinions and preferences quiet, but your thoughts and the concerns you list are the things she should consider as she looks at each school. It is OK to not know the answers, it is a mistake to not ask these questions.</p>
<p>ssalernas, I think that's a great question. If Ok has other things to offer that excite your D, not just free-ride, than it's a great choice for her field. Pharmacists get hired because they pass the boards. They are in demand, and that's not leveling off soon. Nobody will care where she went to school. I know nothing about Ok, but if there are chances to interact with other bright kids, if she can stand the climate, if the culture seems right, don't feel guilty about taking advantage of this opportunity.</p>
<p>midwest parent,</p>
<p>i understand your concerns about the honors programs at the state u's. </p>
<p>don't forget to look also at the possible generous merit aid and financial aid at privates as well................some to check out.............univ. of tulsa, baylor, tulane.</p>
<p>be pro-active and contact the private schools that are of interest to her. they may surprise you with their generous merit aid or financial aid. </p>
<p>we found it helped to check the average ACT for students at the particular university.........and visit:)</p>
<p>If I remember correctly, the National Scholars at OU get priority registration--ahead of upperclassmen, so I don't think there would be a problem getting into classes like in some other "honors" programs. I think there are other schools that have this policy, too, so check with the program you're looking at.
BTW, I think the climate in OK is quite nice (except for the twisters. . .) The winters are generally mild and sunny with occasional snows, some hot days in August and Sept., spring comes early, kind of windy in general,--IMO preferable to dark, cold, wet, endless NE winters.</p>
<p>I think people are putting too much emphasis on undergrad school. There are smart people from all kinds of colleges going into top graduate programs because they have the grades, scores, and passion for a subject. If $ is not an issue for your family, congratulations. But taking one of these big NM scholarships at a "lower ranked school" like OU, UF, or ASU (and remember, these schools are still in the top 10% of all colleges in the country) is not going to ruin someone's life--it could be a very smart move to graduate debt free, help ease burden on parents, not have to work during school, etc. Nothing wrong with living in a different part of the country and being part of the "diversity" there, too.</p>
<p>Midwest parent,</p>
<p>The questions you pose are the great unknown of higher education. A certain school doesn't garantee anything, what the individual does there determines it. If you think your child is going to be looking at additional years of study beyond the first four, then getting those first four in as inexpensively as possible is not a bad way to go. </p>
<p>Most secondary studies require some sort of testing for postgrad studies. Not every kid from an ivy aces these tests or does every kid from a small LAC, or state U fail. It comes down to the individual. Look at your choices and look at things like class size, professor interaction and past classes. A LAC might have a class size of 11 in sciences taught by a an excellent professor who knows your child very well. Another place might have 50 in the class which is taught by a grad student. </p>
<p>Our first finished in the top 10% on the Mcap, he benefited from the small class size and 1 to 1 attiention from his professors. He attends a small LAC. Actually smaller than his HS. </p>
<p>What works everytime? absolutely nothing. It is going to depend on what you want and what will be best for your goals and what you'll bring to the party. </p>
<p>Alot of schools besides UO offer full rides for NMF. Also you'll find the market has changed for the better the last few years for NMF at alot of schools. Many schools combine scholarships and "special" NMF grants to compete. It's a valuable currency that NMF status. Shop around and check what fits. You will have a problem however, there will be so many great choices that you will struggle making a final decision. </p>
<p>It's a great problem to have.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I think people are putting too much emphasis on undergrad school. There are smart people from all kinds of colleges going into top graduate programs because they have the grades, scores, and passion for a subject. If $ is not an issue for your family, congratulations. But taking one of these big NM scholarships at a "lower ranked school" like OU, UF, or ASU (and remember, these schools are still in the top 10% of all colleges in the country) is not going to ruin some one's life--it could be a very smart move to graduate debt free, help ease burden on parents, not have to work during school, etc. Nothing wrong with living in a different part of the country and being part of the "diversity" there, too.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>
[quote]
Most secondary studies require some sort of testing for post grad studies. Not every kid from an ivy aces these tests or does every kid from a small LAC, or state U fail. It comes down to the individual. Look at your choices and look at things like class size, professor interaction and past classes. A LAC might have a class size of 11 in sciences taught by a an excellent professor who knows your child very well. Another place might have 50 in the class which is taught by a grad student.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I just love these two posts soo much. They really encapsulate some broad minded, progressive thinking. </p>
<p>BTW, the greatest William Blake scholar I have ever met earned all three of her degrees in record time at the University of Tulsa. </p>
<p>One of the biggest John Milton scholars going teaches at the University of Memphis. She took a heck of a long time graduating from one humble school in Southern California. </p>
<p>You can pick a major and research the scholars behind the major. There are actually pretty good scholars at some of the more humble schools. It is all what you make of it. I think that informal networking should start before you even pick the school. When you are making out those lists of schools and all of that, think of what you are actually going to study, what you like, and then look up the backgrounds of the main Professors at the school. Why go by brand name and nothing more? A brand name does not automatically mean you get in to the top grad school of your choosing at all. And, a brand name surely does not mean you automatically obtain fine employment upon graduation, you have to really work hard while in school to accomplish that.</p>
<p>merlinjones raises a good point. I have friends who teach at what many would call 3rd tier or lower schools. Many of these folks are among the tops in their respective fields and have outstanding track records of placing their students in the very top grad school programs in their areas. Many are graduates of elite privates who took jobs in areas of the country with which they fell in love and simply stayed, often in the face of "better" job offers. I visited a department recently of one of these schools and found almost the entire faculty to be top notch and doing some very interesting, often cutting edge, research while at the same time making a heartfelt commitment to teaching. True, many of the students will not be of the type recruited to work with these professors, but those who are are getting a great education and will have every opportunity (if not more) than if the student had attended elsewhere.</p>
<p>Although my son did not hesitate to take a full ride at our state univ rather than spend easily over $140,000, I did. So every now and then I look at the yearly summary of his honors college and see that 85% go on to grad schools including MIT,Caltech, Harvard law and medicine,Yale, Cornell, Berkely, Princeton, Duke and others. </p>
<p>So my suggestion is just that....get into the website of the school and see where their grads are working and going to grad school. This should help you make your decisions without the prestige guilt that you may feel (especially if you are spending too much time on this website as I do.)</p>
<p>Please remember that the students cohort in a large public U Honors College setting will not be made up of ONLY the 100 or so NMF's the school can attract. D attended the Barrett's Honors at ASU. There were many other scholarship winners there besides the NMF's like herself.She was totally satisfied with her peer group and liked being exposed to others throughout the general college population for classes and outside activities.She graduated with top honors,after incurring no loan expenses.She successfully transitioned to a fully paid fellowship for her PhD program at a top 25 private midwestern U.Her grad admission success doesnt seem to have been hurt by her undergrad.
The opportunity for the student wanting pre pharm at UO is outstanding.I havent heard of the NMF scholarship being extended past 8 semesters anywhere else.D's first roommate at ASU just finished her pharm degree after tranferring to U of A after soph year.She was NMF as well, and was able to usee the final 4 semesters at U of A for the pharm program,but self paid for the final 2 years. Shes off to New Zealand to do research.</p>
<p>Lurker here with NMF D at University of Evansville. Their full-tuition NM offer is extended for an additional 4 semesters (a total of 12 semesters) for students who are admitted "Direct Entry" as freshman into the Doctorate in Physical Therapy program. (The curriculum does require 3 summers of part-time study starting after junior year and that tuition is not covered). With tuition currently at $22k+ /year, clearly a great opportunity for NMF's with a very specific career goal.</p>
<p>I agree with Cathymee that not many colleges extend scholarships past UG work (8 semesters), but like Hoosiermom I have heard of a few. Our son received a scholarship offer from Texas Tech University that covered UG and graduate work. It was unsolicited so I don't know the details.</p>