Can someone explain to me what I am doing wrong? Should I even bother finishing my my degree?

College Majors Engineering Majors
1

Hello,
I am a 3rd mechanical engineering major who is heavily interested into going into the nanotechnology field. I chose mechanical engineering because it is a very broad and powerful field. I have heavily interested in nanotechnology and I would love to pursue that field for a career; however I am having little to no luck actually getting anyone to even talk to me.

I have done my research and I have learned that nanotechnology is a field heavily associated with M.E.s . I have talked to retired defense engineers who have stated that the field isn’t new to them because they have worked with nano-tech for decades; however it is now gaining the interest of other industries.

I have quite a bit of M.E. project experience; however I am have the worst luck trying to gain nano-tech lab or research experience. I have contacted hundreds of professors across, companies, labs, universities etc, across the country but I have received very little replies.

I have contacted many people in my university (professors, career center, etc), companies around me, and some former engineers but none have been of much help. Few have told me to just stay on the path of typical mechanical engineers and stick to cars, boats and “stupid” toys as they put it. It seems as if other professions dont want engineers to come into their field.

I have tried to connect with people on linkedin; however very few have replied and the ones who have are not engineers and have no idea what I should do. Most just say best of luck and move on while I keep searching for an opportunity.

How can I reach out to the scientific community…I feel as if there is a force field allowing certain people in but not me.
Is there anyone who can help me? Or should I do as others say and give up on this path?

I am at my wits end and I am ready to give up. I do not want to continue chasing and empty dream and I am losing motivation very fast.

What should I do? How do I network? How can I better adjust myself to the American industry which is soley based on who you know not what you know?

Sorry if I seem upset… I am just not able to mentally keep up anymore.

Thank you for reading and replying

2

Is it a field that might largely require a graduate degree?

3

@boneh3ad no, if you want to be on the biological side of the study then yes; however from the engineering stand point no.
When a biotechnology BS holder is compared to mechanical BS holder for, lets say the biotech industry. the biotech BS holder has a leg up but the diversity the M.E. brings from other fields is prized as well.

4

Nanotechnology means different things to different people. The only way to get into a field like nanotechnology or green energy or neuroscience (or any “buzzword” fashionable field) is to focus on the specific problem that is your interest. You can’t “break into” any field. If you are not precise in your target, people will not help you hit it.

I suspect you have not defined a problem. If you are contacting people, you need to engage them from their point of view. Why should they help you?

If you say “I am interested in nanotechnology. Help me.” there is little to work with. If you say “Prof. Smith, I am very interested in surface finishes that minimize crack formation. I notice that in your paper “______” that you published last year, you used the formalism of Orowan Loop formation to show how nano-texturizing of aluminum surfaces increases ultimate strength for T6061 samples. I am a student interested in pursuing nanotechnology and would be interested in finding out more about how I can help better understand these phenomena. Could you tell me about opportunities to intern in your lab this summer?” there is a response, an interest, and a call to action- Prof. Smith can work with that.

Maybe it is how you go about approaching it? Are you giving people ample, copious reasons and ways to simply say “Yes,” or are you asking them to work very hard to figure out what you want, need, and why they should they take the time to even start a dialog (when there is nothing in it for them)?

Does this mean you spent a day in the library understanding specific underpinnings, poring over technical journals and working through the theory, or does it mean you spent 5 minutes reading a magazine in a dentist’s office?

As to this statement:

I can guarantee it is not solely cultural, and your conclusion is more “sour grapes” than fact. Have you demonstrated “What you know” in your communiques? Many of young age and experience, even native-born Americans, have the same issues. If you want, find a researcher of your home nationality (you will still have the same issues).

Think from the receiver’s perspective, and you will succeed. If you have to, set up a problem- a science fair level experiment. If you are a student, see if you can get free time in a nanotechnology lab to do it. Then present a poster paper in any student venue or conference. This paper can be used as an introduction to the professors. As you progress, if you “just do it”, you will meet people along the way who will help you.

5

I am still not convinced that a graduate degree is not part of the problem, either. Everything you have really mentioned so far has to do with “nanotechnology research,” and the term “research” typically implies a graduate degree. In other words, if you are trying to get a full time job in a research lab in some branch of nanotechnology for when you graduate, your problem may simply be that no one wants to hire anyone with just a BS degree and therefore little experience in the research process or in the more specific nanotechnology-related courses. I am not even sure what companies may be doing nanotechnology work, but are they generally still in the R&D phase of development of such products? If so, that also means the employees will likely overwhelmingly have graduate degrees.

If you are simply frustrated trying to find undergraduate research experience, then you are probably just asking the wrong way and I defer to pretty much everything that @ItsJustSchool‌ just said.

6

@itsjustschool Nanotechnology is manufacturing non-biological things to a molecular level. I am kind of offended you think I dont know how to approach people. I know how to approach a company from their point of view, I just dont like the process of have to kiss up instead of letting my actions speak for themselves.

Going “yes sir, I love what you do sir…oh I have to just stare at paper all day? Of course I will do it sir…anything for your company sir”…that is a BS attitude which most employers enjoy.

I ask them broad questions and concise questions to get to them to address the field and specifically what I would do. I have looked at what companies like abbott do and what kind of product they make. They make is seem so complicated when in reality is a small robotic valve that reacts to certain distress signals sent to the brain from the damaged area.

More and more M.E.are looking to creating mechanical hearts, livers, shoulders, and knees to assist people with various medical issues.

–“Have you demonstrated “What you know” in your communiques?”…I am part of several organizations, international competitions, honors student, and yet that is not enough. I have experience through numerous projects, but its not “work” experience.

–“If you want, find a researcher of your home nationality (you will still have the same issues).”

I am American…

–“If you are a student, see if you can get free time in a nanotechnology lab to do it. Then present a poster paper in any student venue or conference”

Yea, ok man. In the region I am in, unless you are from Harvard, Stanford, etc and going for a PhD and you ask for time in a lab, to volunteer, or gain experience…then you are looked at by professors as a student who “doesnt know his place”…its BS.

I would love t go abroad to HK again. I studied their and go to see how they hire people.
-The cross out any indication that gives away where you from, which university, and your race…not indications of those things allowed on the resume…they cross it out.
-They eliminate any work experience that is not related to your field. So if you are a nursing major and you worked at Starbucks…guess what they coffee shop experience is crossed out.
-All they leave on your resume is: projects, awards, and related experience/activities. (Greeks, sports clubs, etc are not really considered field related)
-All they leave on their to contact you is a serial number and email.

Then they get foreign professionals from the field you are applying and make them sort out the best resumes to worst.

They completely eliminate the “who you know” factor.

I would love to go back but said reality is that I do not have the experience in the professional workforce to go…

7

My experience is that much micro- and nano-fabrication is performed in other-than-Mech. E. labs (chem labs, UV interference-based stepper patterning followed by DRIE, etc.). My experience is that facilities that are funded by National Grants have time available for students (and even to industry on a rental-by-hour basis). My experience is that university professors and staff believe part of their jobs is to help curious students.

I am responding to you based on the limited information you choose to provide. Based on your comment:

perhaps I am better at offending than at helping you. I am sorry.

Good luck.

8

Have you looked at REUs? If you can get one, it’s a great way to get experience in a field.
http://www.nsf.gov/crssprgm/reu/reu_search.jsp search nanotechnology
Deadlines are usually January and February

9

http://www.vanderbilt.edu/vinse/reu/
http://www.egr.uh.edu/reu/overview
http://www.nnin.org/reu/reu-application/nnin-reu-site-descriptions-2015

10

My suggestion is that you not worry about nanotechnology right now. Focus on what research is available at your university and find a professor in whose laboratory you can volunteer. Ideally you can choose someone who is doing research in an area which you find interesting and where you can learn methods which could eventually be of use in what you really want to do. If that is not possible, just find something. You have to start somewhere. Go in person, emails aren’t as persuasive, and volunteer if you have to. Remember you are asking them for a favor not something that is owed you.

Frankly, as a physics professor involved in nanotechnology, I get a lot of emails asking for a place in my lab and I cannot accommodate everyone. I prioritize students from my own department, then those who might be worth recruiting as graduate students eventually. Most of the inquiries, I have to turn down without much thought.

Finally, I pretty much agree with @boneh3ad that an interdisciplinary field like nanotechnology still is highly dependent on Ph.D.s. That may change as more companies get into the field but right now a lot of it is interdisciplinary R&D and that is often best done by Ph.D. level engineers or scientists.

11

If you are offended by somebody’s honest and completely non-confrontational help, then I have a feeling you are going to struggle getting any advice that you consider meaningful, here or elsewhere.

That is not at all what he was implying. When you are communicating with these labs, the goal is not to be a brown-noser as you have just described. Instead you are trying to demonstrate that you have put in a little bit of effort on your own time to try and familiarize yourself with their research or product, and that familiarity is what has helped spark your interest.

We, of course, don’t know what kinds of things you have been saying in your communications with these people, especially given how vague you have been here, but judging by everything you have said, it sure seems like the most likely issue here. The odds are that if you are just asking broad questions about the “field” of nanotechnology, they aren’t going to be very motivated to bring your into their lab or help you out since it likely does not show that you have put in much effort on your own. I put “field” in quotes because nanotechnology isn’t even really its own field, but is rather a whole bunch of fields loosely related by their focus on products or processes on the nanoscale.

Further, if your attitude that what they are doing is not actually complicated is coming through in your communications at all, that certainly isn’t going to help you.

This isn’t what we mean by “demonstrat[ing] what you know” in this context. Being a member of clubs and an honors student is one thing. Coming across in an email or a phone call like you have some basic level of familiarity with the topic and are not just fishing is another issue. So again, it comes down to us just not really knowing what you are saying to these people or even exactly what you are trying to accomplish.

I know you just said you were American, but this sure doesn’t sound like a typical American university. At all of the schools with which I have any experience, labs taking on undergraduate researchers is fairly common.

So, it seems you are rather resistant to all of the advice so far, and it seems in large part to stem from us saying things that you feel you have already addressed. However, you haven’t really shared much information with us, so let me instead pose a few questions for you that maybe will help people out:

[ul]
[li]What sort of positions are you trying to acquire here? Are you trying to get undergraduate research positions for before graduation? Post-graduation career opportunities? Just trying to get some information about the field from working professionals?[/li]
[li]In the case of these companies, what sort of employees are you actually contacting and have you had any prior contact with them or are you essentially cold calling (or emailing) them?[/li]
[li]What sort of questions are you actually asking them?[/li][/ul]

Maybe knowing a little bit more could help us help you.

12

@boneh3ad Sorry for my attitude but I have tried for 2 year now and not one company, university, or research professors has replied me…you can understand where I am coming from.

I have researched every company I have contacts and every university researcher I have attempted to contact as well.

I contact them in a sincere manner and introduce myself, my major, and where I want my career to go.
Then I state what I know about their company and relate my goals back to them.
Follow that with what I would like to gain from the company. (an question interview, volunteer experience, etc)

What I am trying to do is gain some biotech lab experience because most work relating to nano-tech is in the bio industry right now. I ask if I might be able to volunteer, shadow the workers, or even just clean the equipment and they have all said no. I have tried to do it for free…but they would rather hire someone.

All my experience that I have list on my resume are personally what I have worked on directly and information I gathered. I do not take credit for things i do not do.

My university is in California. We have an influx of students coming here. Number of positions have decreased and student numbers have increased.

My options are becoming very limited. As a student I have heavily focused on nanotechnology that I am not interested in other sides of M.E. I fear i will have to leave the country to get a job.

I have 1 year before I graduate but I can not find anywhere to gain experience and not one person has even attempted to give me advice.

For me it is deja vu all over again. in high school I graduated with a 4.1 and got into 18 universities; however I received no federal aid to attend many of those universities. Now I have M.E experience but no one is willing to give me a chance.

13

I have never seen a professional company that wants that. Some individual managers do, of course - you can never completely eliminate the power-mad. What companies like is people who are not “too good” to do the boring or messy or unpleasant work alongside the important stuff that they are going to pay you thousands and thousands and thousands to do. Engineers and scientists, while vulnerable to flattery like anyone else, are mostly concerned with how well you will help them accomplish their own work, not in just having you around to do menial tasks and decorate the office.

You might be portraying yourself as too under-qualified or indifferent. Undergraduate engineering research is generally paid, and asking for a free position may imply to them that other professors have considered you for a paid spot but found you lacking.

Have you looked at independent study courses at your school? You may be able to use such a program to work with a professor doing the kind of work you want.

Bear in mind that foreign hiring practices are different than US practices for specific reasons. In a lot of foreign countries, colleges are highly regulated for uniformity of curriculum and standards - that is not the case here. Likewise, resources are more likely to be spread evenly, whereas in the US universities are so radically different from each other that knowing where you studied is crucial to knowing what you have actually learned.

The US also (in my experience) looks for different things than many foreign companies. An HK employer might not care that you listed your volleyball experience on your resume, but a US company might find it significant. For example, my own employer likes varsity athletes - they figure anyone who can get an engineering degree with a competitive GPA and experience while competing at that level will be a good person to hire! Conversely, someone who listed winning their IM volleyball league on their resume might well lack the people skills to work well in the company, especially if there is to be customer contact!

Frustrated or not, if you come on to the forums and want advice it is best to drop the attitude and consider how your posts are being taken - if no one is “seeing your point” then it is probably the way you are presenting it.

Oh, and if you are a 3rd year student, this is about the time you would start being a candidate for something like nanotechnology. As a freshman or sophomore, it was doubtful that you had enough education to be useful to a lab.

If you are that focused on such a tight specialty then you are setting yourself up for trouble. Just like applying to colleges or grad schools, it is always dangerous to pin your employment hopes in a single tight field - as an undergraduate, you are expected to be well-rounded and adaptable, if they want specialists employers usually prefer a grad degree.

You have not on here indicated your GPA, class standing, relevant coursework, etc. One of the issues with offering advice is that it depends so much on what you are presenting. I would suggest listing here a micro-resume, it will help us to see your strengths and weaknesses.

14

@cosmicfish Ok…

Well first off “the important stuff that they are going to pay you thousands and thousands and thousands to do” …average salary for a M.E. in California after the recession, according to various salary sites, is less then $59,000. My mom came here form India in 2004 and works ar rayles and earns more as a deli clerk. I know salaries in the U.S. for science majors is a joke, I am would not have gone to the university if I was not motivated and busting my butt.

“You might be portraying yourself as too under-qualified or indifferent” & “professors have considered you for a paid spot but found you lacking.”

  • First off I never asked for pay…i directly ask for a free position so they dont have to pay me… I am basically “wh0ring” my talent out
  • According to numerous defense engineers I am qualified for the labs…with my extracurricular activities I am an excellent candidate; however turn around and ask university PhD…I get responses like “stop wasting your and my time.”… “do you honestly think I would allow you into my lab” etc…
  • There is not lab based engineering professor at my school… everything is set for manufacturing and HVAC…not what I am interested in… not even the slightest.

“As a freshman or sophomore, it was doubtful that you had enough education to be useful to a lab.” & “but a US company might find it significant.”
-No I actually applied to positions that fit my education level
-I was a USMC officer candidate for 2 years… that alone took 365 days of dedication before I torn my acl

“If you are that focused on such a tight specialty then you are setting yourself up for trouble. Just like applying to colleges or grad schools, it is always dangerous to pin your employment hopes in a single tight field - as an undergraduate, you are expected to be well-rounded and adaptable, if they want specialists employers usually prefer a grad degree.”
-I am extremely flexible as a M.E. engineering student. I have no problem communicating, doing well in other majors course.
-Grad schools… yea no every one i have contacted to simply talk to a professors, advisor, or to schedule a meeting in polite and professional manner has said no to even continuing to talk about the topic at hand.

  • I have emphasized I want to to go into nanotechnology; however I always state biomedical and biotechnology to keep it broad

I am an honors student at my university … one of only 70 to come into the program when from my freshman year to out of the several thousand that go into the school

15

“My suggestion is that you not worry about nanotechnology right now” - Ditto.

I bet you have some great skills. But it seems like some bad breaks have put you in a foul, defensive mode. Take advantage or campus services for career counseling, perhaps general counseling, and also exercise opportunities. It sounds like you are getting wound up, and at this point maybe you just need to cut yourself some slack. If you are doing well with a decent GPA, you will be fine. Best of luck!

16

This can’t even be remotely true or else no one would do engineering and would just be deli clerks instead. Either that, or your mom is a manager int he department and that represents the salary after a number of promotions and years of experience, which you are now comparing to the average starting salary for mechanical engineers nationwide.

Did you even read what he said? He said that by asking for a free position, you may be implying that you previously were turned down for a paid position. Lab positions are almost universally paid positions for a number of reasons. When talking to professors, don’t explicitly ask for free, just ask about whether they have any openings for undergraduates in their labs at the moment.

I find that hard to believe, but it is literally almost impossible for us to help you unless you share with us things like your GPA and what exactly are all these extracurriculars you mention. If you give us a bit more information like that, we may actually be able to shed some light on your situation, but if you remain closed off to us, we are really going to have a hard time helping.

If you knew from the start that you wanted to get into a nanotechnology-related field, then why didn’t you take that into account when choosing schools?

17

First, I am going to echo boneh3ad here - either your mother is the most overpaid deli clerk on the planet or there is some error here. Second, sneering at $59k with an undergrad degree is not going to win you favors anywhere. The vast majority of college grads are less likely to get a job in the first place, much less one that pays so much. If that pay irritates you so much, why did you go into engineering? Why not just work for your mom in the deli?

Yeah, you completely misread my post. They should be paying you. In engineering, if you can’t paid for an internship or research spot or whatever, then you are doing something wrong.

Well, second hand recommendations don’t really tell us anything. I’m a defense engineer, I know lots of other defense engineers, I’m working on my PhD and know lots of university PhD’s, and so far I am not seeing anything that lets me know you are qualified, much less an “excellent candidate”.

At this point I have to ask: are you here looking for help, or sympathy? If you are looking for help, we need to know more about you - what is actually on your resume, your GPA, your university, etc. If you are just looking for sympathy then this is probably not the best forum, as we tend to be more problem solvers than shoulders to cry on.

What school is this? Is it primarily a trade school, like DeVry? If there are no research labs then you can basically write off nanotech until grad school!

There are extremely few positions at those levels, and a lot of competition, so the people who get them tend to be the people who are above the listed educational level.

Semper Fi!

Grad schools won’t talk to you until you are a senior, and even then most will ignore you. It is not personal, most professors don’t really have the time to invest in talking to a potential student until they have been through the application process and been confirmed as a legitimate candidate. And even the ones who want to reply may well miss your email in the hundreds of solicitations they can get every day.

18

@colorado_mom Thank you

19

@boneh3ad‌
-mom came here in 2004. She is a clerk and union leader/representative. She has only had 3 promotions in her career.
-I ask for a free position so that they don’t have to pay me…so I am basically a volunteer…I valued my talent and ask was dropping below minimum wage…didn’t get anything…when I said free I got some labs to look at me, but not commitment.

  • GPA: 3.34 (my university has a very system: A- is a 3.7...B+ (3.3) no way to compensate for the grade)
  • I am a part of FSAE, ASME, Robotics team, American clinical lab society (I cant remember the exact acronyms), USMC officer candidate (like I said ..torn ACL), Honors society, volunteer for 3 organizations, winner of 3 national awards and a student who has gone abroad (3.85 gpa)

-I have currently 3.5 years of mechanical engineering lab experience (manufacturing, design and stuff), 2 years of wood work shop experience, 1 year of chemical lab experience…I also speak 5 languages and have 7 majors projects under my belt…I have also had experience being a project leader, manager, and organizer.

-My university…Do you really think I am happy where I am. I knew in high school that this world is who you know not what you know. I had a chance to attend major universities in the east coast and California and I couldn’t go. I was forced to attend the university I am at because of my damn family (which has always held me back…I am not a family person) and having no financial aid from FAFSA and receiving nothing every time I reply.

-I applied to 67 interships …not one
-119 scholarships…not one
-45 lab volunteering attempts…not one
-Failed questioning attempts… 74
-my morale…0
-positive outlook…next to none
-connections…none (I am a first generation)
-Honors society…more liberal arts, nursing, or business based
-family support…0
-friends support…next to nothing
-Career center help…0
-Professional help…0

there…now you know everything.

20

@cosmicfish read what I put to boneh3ad