Can we stop using "STEM" when writing about job prospects?

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Can we stop using “STEM” when writing about job prospects?

For example, in posts #155 and #156, we see apparently contradictory claims about how well “STEM” PhDs do in getting jobs:

But it is likely that different areas of “STEM” were being referred to (the writer of #156 later mentioned in #166 that they were referring to “life sciences”). The different fields that may come under the term “STEM” have job markets of widely varying characteristics, so claiming that “STEM” majors have good or bad job prospects is really an insufficiently detailed claim.

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Probably makes sense. FWIW my answer on the other thread should have also included physical science PhDs too.

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Yes, can definitely see differences between life sciences, engineering and so on.
I think part of the issue is oversharing. Another part is something which happens often. Someone mentions a specific area of “STEM” and then someone else says no that’s not correct (when in fact they are under a different umbrella under STEM).
Would be great to have various discussions based on very specific fields.

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Not as bad as trying to toss in “STEAM”.

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When it comes to job prospects "S"cience, whether life or physical, probably fits better with arts/humanities/social sciences than TEM.

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Part of reason we often use the acronym “STEM” is because it’s sometimes difficult to classify whether something (e.g. computer science) is a science, technology, or engineering.

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However, for the purpose of job prospects and job markets, the various STEM subjects are quite different from each other. CS and biology may both be STEM subjects, but their job markets are very different.

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In terms of job prospects I think CS fits in better with Tech. I think of Science to mostly mean laboratory sciences.

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But some CS graduates choose to do research. Even some who go to Google or Facebook are working on research projects, rather than some commercial products.

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Yes some, but especially at the undergraduate level, I don’t think that the percentage is that significant. Also, while they may be doing research, their employment prospects and compensation are more reflective of tech than lab sciences.

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Count my S in the ranks of CS grads conducting research in a SV company. However, I’m not sure you can say the research is totally divorced from product that may appear in the future.

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From this thread, it looks as though having the STEM umbrella term makes sense. That is unless someone is specifically talking about a specific query. Lots of talent here cutting across various fields.

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There is nothing wrong with having an umbrella term like “STEM”, “liberal arts”, “humanities”, or similar. The problem comes in how the umbrella term is used. Sometimes “STEM majors” seems to be used as a general catch all for almost anything desirable about major selection. To the point of this thread, saying STEM majors have good job prospects is an example of this. Some STEM majors are associated with a higher salary or high job demand. Other STEM majors are associated with lower salaries and less job demand.

Some example numbers from the Berkeley survey at https://career.berkeley.edu/survey/survey are below. I am defining unemployed as (% Seeking Employment / % Not in Grad School). Some STEM majors had high starting salaries of $116k+ with low unemployment, while others had starting salaries of under $50k with more than 1/3 unemployed (with only BS), which is similar numbers to theater and other not-in-demand non-STEM fields.

Better Job Prospects
CS: Median Salary = $116k + $20k bonus, 8% Unemployed, Common title = SW Eng
EE & CS : Median Salary = $117k + $20k bonus, 12% Unemployed, Common title = SW Eng

Overall Average Across All Majors (Both STEM and Non-STEM)
Median Salary = $73k, 26% Unemployed

Worse Job Prospects
Env. Sciences: Median Salary = $42k , 35% Unemployed, Common title = Research Assist.
MCB: Biochem: Median Salary = $45k, 38% Unemployed, Common title = Research Assist.
Theater: Median Salary = $44k, 35% Unemployed, Common title = Actor

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There’re also significant pitfalls in subdividing STEM for job prospects. Variation in compensations is largely driven by the laws of economics, namely the relationship between supply and demand. No one can forecast how any imbalance will develop or disappear for a specific field 5 or 10 years from now. What is hot and in demand today may not last when a student graduate. Additionally, students majoring in the sciences and math generally need further graduate level education to be useful and employable in their chosen fields. Those who don’t typically find work in fields other than the ones they major in, which also explains the lower compensations.

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While that is true for any type of major-related (or otherwise) job prospects, generalizing over “STEM” rather than a more specific major or more closely-related group of majors often makes the claim weaker or less accurate. The ups and downs of the CS-related job market are of little direct relevance to biology majors, and it would be a mistake to refer to the “STEM” job market when describing the ups and downs of the CS-related job market.

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Depends on the conversation. Maybe it’s a better discussion to suss out specifics for a specific thread rather than asking folks not to use general terms?
I often don’t get into specific detail ( for privacy). Never had an issue understanding anyone else either. Sometimes folks will send a DM or I will to ask more specific questions.
Just a thought. Yes, biology is not CS but biomedical engineering and bio is not the same thing either. Both have very different salary levels and opportunities.
Personally, I’d love to see very specific threads (like the one on musical theater) that get into very specific fields and majors. I think that would be very useful.