<p>well rounded kid with SSAT scores in 90's, All A's ,Music awards , No FA request - Waitlisted by 2 schools ( not HADES ) --- i know other kids with SSAT scores in 70's gotten admitted to the same schools. wondering whether race/ethnic background matters as schools compare applications within a "bin" sort of..hugely disappointing and time to move on i guess.</p>
<p>They honestly can’t accept everyone 
Unfortunately, although your child is a qualified candidate, even the lesser-known schools still get fantastic applicants, and they don’t have the space. </p>
<p>I honestly can’t stress enough: just because you have good qualities doesn’t mean the school “needs” you. Maybe the school has a smart, ethnic, musical kid who is full pay already. Schools accept people with specific talents. They want the class to be well-rounded, not just well-rounded students.</p>
<p>Is the kid applying as an international student? Did s/he take the applications seriouly enough (hint: did s/he indicate in any way that since this is a non HADES I’d be a shoo in)? Otherwise, you basically applied to too few schools. In a market like this, 2 is just not enough. Asian students are def over-represented but top schools take a “generous” number of excellent Asian students each year.</p>
<p>Thanks for the response. Kid is not an international student. May be two is too few to apply. Will be wiser next time when we reapply</p>
<p>Sometimes the schools don’t get a real clear picture of the awesome kid you know! They’re looking for every part of the app to line up, and for each part to “confirm” the other parts. So . . . good test scores: check; backed up by good grades: check. Interview that gives us a real “sense” of the student (interests, passions, personality): check; backed up by recommendations that highlight the same things: check; and essays that tie in too: check. </p>
<p>As competitive as admissions have become (any school that has an admissions rate below 30% is very selective in my book!), if any one part of the application doesn’t line up, then that can ultimately make a difference.</p>
<p>It’s easy to misjudge the depth of the admissions pool. If a good school’s fully enrolled, there’s no guarantee of admission. Many qualified students have been waitlisted or rejected recently. Personally, I think the unintended side effects of the national school reform efforts have driven families to investigate private schools. </p>
<p>Two is not enough to guarantee admission. This board tends to focus on a small number of schools. Other schools are also competitive. For example, I gather admissions to New York city prep schools are even more competitive. </p>
<p>When you reapply, you should evaluate what parts of your child’s application looked like everybody else’s application. Are there interests which he/she didn’t mention on the application, which are unusual, and would help define your child? Good grades, well rounded, full pay, good SSAT scores, nice kid–there are many applicants who fit that description.</p>
<p>Some of the wild cards are interview and recommendations. Even though you might think a teacher thinks well of your child, you really don’t know what they wrote and generally current Math and English recommendations are required. They very likely don’t know your child well. Did they express any reservation about wholeheartedly recommending your child? You don’t really know. Did you and/or your child personally speak with each recommender, talk about the schools, etc.?</p>
<p>How do you think your child did in the interview? Did you go in person? I really nagged my daughter about using “like” in her speech for months leading up to the interview (as in “You know like I’m taking like AP Art and it’s like very challenging…” once you tune into this it’s shocking how often even teachers say “like”). Did you practice interviews, try to have responses ready but not sounding canned? We–totally accidentally–happened to have recently taken an artist’s studio tour in our community that was incredible and from things the interviewers said to me, I think my d’s enthusiasm shone through and it gave her some unusual material to talk about.</p>
<p>Search, search, search for that unique something about your child, maybe even start cultivating a new interest or some type of community service. It’s sounds like your child is very talented musically but look for something additional that is a little different. Then again, did your child take their instrument to the interview, as I saw many students doing?</p>
<p>I totally agree with the sentiment that 2 schools is too few if you really want to get in.</p>
<p>Also, a reminder to everybody applying, you are often looking at what boarding school will do for you, but the schools want to know what you will do for them. Not just are you going to be a standout athlete, musician, or artist, but are you going to be a committed alumnus, are you going to jump in and participate in multiple activities? Make sure you have done your homework and can mention specific groups you want to join or classes you want to take or maybe even a club or activity you want to start at their school–the less run of the mill the better. Are you going to win a Nobel Peace Prize and bring honor and renown to the school? </p>
<p>When you find the really unique qualities about your child, look for a school that particularly values those attributes. Is your child fascinated by zoology? Go for Millbrook with its own zoo, etc. Make sure you find schools your child can get excited about in a very specific way and the schools will pick up on it.</p>
<p>My son, some years ago, applied only to St. Paul’s one year and did not get accepted but he still wanted to go to BS. We studied all about it and the next year he applied to 5 schools and we went for personal interviews–a major financial investment for us, airfare, buying him a suit, etc. Still didn’t get into SPS and one other, but accepted at 3. My daughter just now applied to 4 schools and was accepted at 2. In both cases we needed substantial FA and in both cases only 1 school came through with enough, but happy endings for both kids.</p>
<p>My mind also leaped to the interview & recs, because it’s definitely not just about the numbers. You say “not HADES”, but some of the other schools are just as hard to get into. </p>
<p>Race may have played a role. Any applicant from an over-represented demographic is climbing a steeper hill. Brace yourself for college applications…</p>
<p>Thanks again for comments. Throughout this whole process , i felt the recommendations are always the wild card - we can see and control every part of the application except this one. The teachers in public middle schools get to know the kids for 3 months and how well informed are they to write recommendations ? Dont know for sure but this could have been a factor.</p>
<p>The “uniqueness” thing is another issue. The kid does not have one interest. He has multiple interests. they are supposed to have multiple interests at this age and that is why we have liberal arts colleges to help them figure out what they are interested to specialize in. It is too early and dangerous to get them focused on one thing. Kids mature at different speed and it is important to encourage them to explore.</p>
<p>Lastly , we let him be his natural self and did not coach him for the interview. Again, these are adult like behaviours preparing for job interviews and should we be making kids put on some unnatural behaviours ? i guess this is competition and we probably should have paid attention to this.</p>
<p>I’m probably going to be flamed for this comment.</p>
<p>Another possible factor for boys especially, is the competition from significant number of kids who apply to repeat a grade. I see parents of repeats having a big hand in the decision to repeat (after all, it’s the parents who will be on the hook for an add’l year of tuition payments). I would predict these parents would helicopter more over the application process.</p>
<p>Well I will most definitely flamed for this comment.</p>
<p>You say ssat’s in the 90’s and grades all A’s and two non-Hades schools. So take “hades”, (by the way viola should be vilified for this term alone) to mean the top academic boarding schools, not just the 5 making up the acronym, and assume that your kid’s grades/scores are within the accepted scores at those schools. Then take “non-hades” and assume that the scores are above the accepted scores. Then what you have is a kid who is not looking for fin. aid applying to a school that is academically “lighter” than the kid. The school will obviously wait list the kid, since they are concerned about their yield. It’s referred to as the Tufts Syndrome.<br>
If you still want one of those schools - write them a letter saying they are your first choice and you will send a check immediately upon receipt of the contract.</p>
<p>@GMTPlus7, I think competition from boys willing to repeat a grade is significant, but I don’t think it’s because their parents are “helicoptering” more. I think it’s because boys can change radically between 13 and 16. A boy who has started the large growth spurt which usually hits in 9th grade will have a very different physical presence than a boy who hasn’t.</p>
<p>@MHMM, I don’t think we can assume it’s the Tufts Effect in action. I know the good private schools in our suburban area have many applicants who score in the 90s on the SSAT, are musical, and nice kids. Many could pay full tuition. Many of them are Asian, but by no means all. The good suburban districts have many good students–and they’re applying to the same schools. </p>
<p>For example, I’m not privy to their information, but it wouldn’t surprise me to hear that Lawrenceville would turn away many full-pay public school kids from the immediate area who could do the work. Likewise, Groton or Milton or Roxbury Latin or Sidwell Friends or Nobles or Concord Academy… This site plays up a few schools, but many schools are selective.</p>
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<p>This could certainly have been a factor. Also, remember that some public school parents and teachers think that parents are driving the decision to “go private.” I think teachers in high school are more likely to give the students the credit which is due. I know that some teachers in our public middle school thought we were pushing our eldest to apply to boarding schools, whereas we knew she had first raised the issue in fifth grade! </p>
<p>There is also a more subtle point. The characteristics public school teachers praise in students may not be the characteristics the admissions committees look for (this varies by school.) For example, our public school placed great emphasis on teamwork. “Works well with others” is a term of high praise. The private schools are often looking for leadership, independence, and initiative. </p>
<p>In this case, you might want to think of asking people to write your son’s non-school recommendations who know him well. At best, it would be someone who has experience writing recommendations for students applying to private schools. Any music teachers would be my first choice. Or someone who could attest to character, such as Boy Scout troop leaders.</p>
<p>“grades all As”</p>
<p>How many other students in your child’s class receive As? Schools and teachers vary. At some schools, very few kids get As, which means a B average could be fine. If many students receive As, it may not send a strong signal.</p>
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<p>I wholeheartedly agree. Note that some large schools do look for students with advanced specialization–nationally ranked athletes, or notable musicians. There are many schools which do not expect students to be prodigies, and even at the large schools, there are also spots for well-rounded students. </p>
<p>I wasn’t urging you to drill your child in resume-building. Most of the members of the admission committee know your child only through the application. How memorable is your child’s application? Remember, it’s a very competitive pool. If a score in the 70s on the SSAT is sufficient for admission, that means that every applicant who scores above that could be admitted. Most schools do not see themselves as solely academic institutions. Did your child’s application essays give the “right” answers, or did they give “personal” answers? There is a difference. </p>
<p>If someone hadn’t met your son, would his essays be memorable? (Don’t write his essay for him!!! Don’t try to edit his essay!!) </p>
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<p>I would say, no, you should not try to coach your child into unnatural behaviors. If he can make eye contact and talk with adults, he should be fine. </p>
<p>One question, though, is this: How many spots were really open at the two schools your son applied to? Many day schools will admit siblings and legacy children at a higher rate than new families. Remember that they need to fill sports teams, too. A school may have a 40% admission rate overall, but the chances of admission are not evenly distributed. A star baseball pitcher whose father attended the school may be nearly guaranteed admission. A musical student from the community may be competing with other musical students from all the surrounding towns for the few spots left over once the siblings, athletes, legacies and candidates from feeder schools have been placed in the class.</p>
<p>If your child has to give a presentation to their class, aren’t they going to practice it ahead of time? And won’t they be striving to be natural and at ease rather than stumbling over words or drawing a blank? That’s all I’m talking about for prep, not trying to become an actor.</p>
<p>Some schools post typical interview questions online. We looked at several listings, talked about them, and made flashcards for ones that needed some polishing. Not much different from when we made flashcards to learn mountain ranges. </p>
<p>Two fairly standard questions are why do you want to come to XYZ School and why should ABC School choose you? My daughter applied to 5 schools. Each had its own attraction and we wanted to keep their special features straight by composing and practicing answers for each school, not to be recited verbatim, just to have that memory to draw from. My d WANTED to do this to ease her nervousness, and she decided which questions to practice. </p>
<p>As for uniqueness, I was trying to say my kids are somewhat lacking in this area. But I think when my d could say she was really looking forward to taking their molecular genetics course–and this was entirely genuine–it made an impression, especially since her main focus right now is artistic in nature. But I’m not sure that would have come to her mind when she was sitting there in the interview, nervous as all get out, without some advance preparation.</p>
<p>You need something a little memorable, beyond music, beyond yearbook. Not necessarily specialization, just something a little out of the ordinary. Maybe even a book they read that they use to support points they make, if it’s a book every other kid isn’t reading.</p>
<p>I totally agree that the whole application process is daunting and more than once I thought schools should just set a minimum standard, take all the applications, put them in a hat, and draw out their new class. Admissions is definitely a big business. However, the school my d will attend has a very distinct flavor and they may need the admission process to maintain it.</p>
<p>Some may consider me a helicopter parent. They are entitled to their opinion. I have raised 5 children, not all mine by birth, and this one needs more hands on attention than the others. I didn’t force anything on her but really don’t think she could have wrapped everything up without me. Obviously some kids do it all on their own. I felt I knew better than she how important BS was for her–it sounds weird, but isn’t that a lot of what we parents do? She wanted it, she’s ecstatic about where she’s going, she’s matured incredibly through this process, and I am confident she’ll take it from here (for the most part). She just needed some help negotiating the process.</p>
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<p>Because successful applicants are more than just stats and EC’s. Schools look at the whole student and evaluate them against the other applications in the pile. Your child was waitlisted and therefore qualified and wanted. In a different year your child might have been offered a spot on the first round. There just aren’t enough spaces - even for full pay kids. </p>
<p>Schools post average scores on their websites but those are not absolutes and having a lower score does not make a student less qualified. Also, it is perfectly legitimate to consider that of comparable candidates, one might just be a better fit in terms of school culture. Or that one might have fewer resources at home. Or one might “need” the experience more. Or one might have just connected with the faculty a little bit more. There is no way to know.</p>
<p>There are many families on these boards who didn’t give up after the first try. Perseverance is key. But also moderating your expectations. Two schools is too few. All the applicants are smart. Your child was one of thousands who didn’t land a spot. Nothing to figure out. No formula to compute. Nothing you or he could have done to change the outcome.</p>
<p>BTW - Kids prepped for interviews tend to fare more poorly because they come off stiff and artificial. Frankly, it’s annoying to get those kids (with or without hovering parents and/or consultants). Outside of those parents - when thrown curve balls (and we do throw them), many stumble and can’t recover in an interview. We want to see the “real” kid, not the adult enhanced version.</p>
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<p>At the risk of standing up for my much maligned profession, I’d like to gently challenge the above statements. Your beloved child’s teachers very likely don’t know your child as wholly and well as you know them after living under the same roof for 13 years, but there’s probably a lot they do know. There’s a reason for the well-worn cliched answer in educational circles that when asked what we teach, we answer “I teach children.” From moment one, teachers are observing and gathering information about your kid. As a parent, it’s natural to wonder how any teacher could possibly know your kid well enough after only three months. But as a professional, ask yourself how well you would know the details of a project you are working on at your job after 3 months. True, you’re not yet the expert you’ll be, but you aren’t a blank, either.
I’m not denying that there’s a range in quality in my profession (much as I secretly suspect there’s an equally wide range of quality in Bank Presidents), but at every professional conference I’ve ever attended, I’ve gotten to know plenty of public school teachers who are very insightful about the kids they teach. Your child’s teacher won’t write the same thing you would write, but there will be value in it to the AO all the same.</p>
<p>Admissions Offers are professionals. They are also in the business of knowing kids. Even on short meetings they can tell who is coached and who is really reluctant and who is shy or nervous but actually a shining star. They even know (and have great affection for) what 13 year old boys are like. They are trained and they get very good at reading signals-verbal and non-. They are not looking only for specific shibboleths of the insider class. For many years, I was in charge of a very selective summer program and got to read a lot of recommendation letters. I never encountered a recommendation of tepid comments for a kid I found exceptional in the interview, but I read a lot of fulsome praise for kids who came across as unexceptional when I finally met them. My experience is strictly anecdotal, but I did always get a sense of who was writing the letter in addition to who the letter was about.</p>
<p>Sadly, recommendations are not the only part of the application you can’t control. You also can’t control who else is applying. A waitlist means that your child is what the school is looking for–there just happen to be far too many well qualified children for far too few spaces. I agree with those who recommend applying to more schools in the next round, and I am sorry for your frustration.</p>
<p>Thanks to all who replied. It was good to get perspectives from a teacher too. My son has gotten over the disappointment and mentally preparing to go to the public school with his friends. I have told him couple of things the way i dealt with these kind of disappointments in my life 1) Never give up 2) if some one does not take you , it is their loss. He will be fine. </p>
<p>Congratulations to all the kids who got admitted and wish you good luck in your future endeavors. Those who are rejected or waitlisted, it is not the end of the world…Keep the spirits up and the same advice to my son applies to you as well.</p>