<p>Am I missing something here? How does one get into an honors college with less than a 3.5 hs GPA? With the thousands of applications to choose from, how does a student get accepted into the 4 year colleges without good grades, pretty decent SAT/ACT scores and good recomendations from teachers and counselor?</p>
<p>I realize that there are thousands of options for colleges, but the 9 that I recently visited gave pretty clear guidlines for acceptance and it looks pretty tough. Are the guidelines from the colleges for admission just hype? </p>
<p>Has anyone had a different real life experience in the last couple of years? I continuely hear of sad stories of rejections and kids resorting to a community college because of this.</p>
<p>One of the best tools IMO is on the college board website. I found the academic tracker where you can "plug in" all of the courses taken so far, the average gpa, SAT/ACT scores and then plug in a college and click "how do I stack up" and "am I on track". Some of my son's friends did that recently and are now "scrambling" to retake their standardized tests as they see on that tracker that they are a "far fetch" for acceptance. Anybody used that tool?</p>
<p>I would love to hear of some success stories especially for acceptance into an honors college as I got a very different story from the colleges themselves.</p>
<p>While CC is not an ideal atmosphere for this student, the fact is that he doesn't show signs of being able to get the work done. Yes, a number of kids get by in college despite this, but a LOT can't cut it. College requires a lot of discipline and maturity. This is obviously a very bright kid, but the signs for college success are simply not there right now.<br>
I'm sure there are some excellent colleges which will admit him, but even with the grade all depending on the tests, it isn't all math and science courses, and you have to keep up with daily reading and discussion assignments.</p>
<p>britbrat1961, "I would love to hear of some success stories especially for acceptance into an honors college as I got a very different story from the colleges themselves." -
- You are absolutely correct and your info is accurate. As I mentioned few posts before, my D is in Honors at state college and requirements of her Honors program were top 2% and ACT=32 or higher. They hardly have anybody there who is not valedictorian. She is valedictorian, her roomate is and anybody that she has mentioned so far from her Honors dorm is valedictorian. She feels that she is academically challenged much more than she expected. There is no reason to think that intelligent person would not be challenged at any college, it depends on classes they are taking. My D. is actually taking a lot of science classes. Both math and science were always easy for her in High School, including AP. They are much more challenging and require much much more work at college. Ds ability to work hard more than anything else is helping her at college. She has no plans to take her hard class - History at college level, thanks to AP, she is done with it.</p>
<p>I hear you and I am just confused as to why someone would suggest that a student would be accepted into a "high ranking academic college", let alone an honors programs with less than stellar grades. I am SO baffled by that!</p>
<p>I wasn't suggesting the child should go to a community college. I just said that someone I knew ended up at one because she went away to a university and still didn't to do schoolwork. The university said she had no study skills which really surprised the parents. They wished they knew that before she got out of high school. She is taking a class to learn how to study (along with other classes) and later can transfer if her grades are good.</p>
<p>I agree with a couple posters. I had a son who despised the daily homework which in our school is 30 to 50% of the grade in every single class. My son was an advid learner and took the advanced classes and also scored nicely on the ACT and SAT. He kept up with the reading, did labs, was well liked by teachers etc., but rarely did the daily worksheet or "cut an article" out of the paper kind of stuff that permeates high school. My high school junior just had the assignment to "decorate his book cover" and it was 10 homework points (he now has an F going into day 3 of school in THAT class). What's that all about? My son is thriving in college where he rarely has "daily homework". I am guessing that most CCs are not going to give this kind of kid the freedom to structure when and how they study. I would join the chorus of looking at the CTCL schools as a start. Also agree with the poster that talked about the large state schools which typically have larger class sizes and a less busywork environment. Finally, the time is running out to "shape" our kids into whatever it is we want/expect them to be. Sometimes it's best to accept that your child is this type of personality. We've all worked with the guys/gals that are "last minute Lucys/Louies" and can't seem to ever work ahead or think past the next item on their planners, so best to work with what you've got and try to adopt perspective. The arrogance of youth shines through, also, with the comment about not wanting to be with college students that are "not bright" and "hate learning". I get that kind of crap talk every now and then from my kids and I tell them they haven't earned the right to talk based on their grades and work ethic to make those kind of comments regardless of their IQ and that kids that are "not bright" and "hate learning" don't go to college so who do they think they are kidding. I tell tlhem to walk the talk. I also had to have a heart to heart with S1 regarding GPA because he had a couple schools on his list that I just flat out told him not to bother applying unless his GPA was 3.8 unweighted. It was his decision how much he wanted to put in to "get x" so to speak...I can't own their life - they own their life and their destiiny.</p>
<p>britbrat and MiamiDAP, honors colleges and honors programs are quite varied in their criteria for admission. Some are extremely difficult to get into, others have more flexible standards. In our state the very best honors program is at the Flagship U, and it is indeed quite selective. A couple of our regional state u's though have different requirements. For example, a student can be admitted on test scores alone, and this serves well those kids with non-traditional educations, or students who didn't do so well in high school, but are nonetheless extremely smart and a couple years later self-study for all the tests and perform at a high level on them.</p>
<p>So all honors programs are not the same, and this is why that option came to mind for the OP's son. Yes, you're right, at this point he won't be a candidate for the very best honors programs, but it might make for a better fit for him at a regional state univ. than just being in general classes.</p>
<p>That said, unfortunately the OP has said there are no honors programs at their state univ's, which eliminates the possiblity... unless going out of state is an option. I wonder, are there any exchange programs with neighboring states that will offer discounted tuition to out-of-state students? I know we have a program where students from quite a few neighboring or nearby states get a hefty discount, making their tuition fairly close to in-state students.</p>
<p>My viewpoint might be a little slanted because my kids did not attend schools where there were a lot of meaningless "busywork" assignments. The daily reading and short papers were very essential and ensured that you kept up with the classroom discussions. I can understand a student's reluctance to decorate his book cover!</p>
<p>MomofWildChild: yes, my S too had points taken off his grade one quarter for not bringing his covered book to class by the deadline! (It was in his locker, but the teacher would not let him go and get it.) The idea that this kind of nonsense actually affects GPA and class rank ... it's simply ridiculous. </p>
<p>In general, I was happy with our HS, but there were occasional teachers who threw this kind of BS into the works. In my S's case, it wasn't a question of not doing the reading or something important like that.</p>
<p>I think it's true that public u honors programs tend to have admissions criteria which are set in stone. Private colleges do not. LACs, which receive a smaller number of apps, are less likely to set rigid acceptance criteria. </p>
<p>IMO, admissions officers don't give out acceptances to reward high school performance. They are trying to take a snapshot of where a kid is at a particular point in time and the probable trajectory of his future performance. They really do look at the whole kid. A kid who won the state science fair AND is a mock trial champ is a pretty rare commodity. I remain convinced that IF the scores are there, at least one reach LAC will accept him. I think one in need of males is especially likely to do so. </p>
<p>Obviously, I can't guarantee that. However, if it were my own kid, I'd certainly try. IMO, this kid will do just fine in college. Again, I can't guarantee that, but I certainly don't get the impression that this kid is unwilling to work. He just needs to be more engaged with what's going on in the classroom.</p>
<p>There are honors programs in private colleges that would take a kid like this. My oldest, whose grades weren't so hot, (hovering around 3.0) but had decent SAT, and also was a good writer was invited to be in the honors program at Universtiy of Puget Sound years ago, for example. He did not end up going there, however.</p>
<p>I wouldn't worry too much about the middle tier of private schools being like the <em>college prep</em> classes at a public high school. The college prep classes at our local public include everyone who is not in honors or AP, and are not really college prep classes (IMO) at all. There are many kids in those classes who do not want to be in school at all and have no interest in learning. Those types of kids don't last long at most colleges.</p>
<p>Consolation hit it on the money. If you give my S is given a final or paper, he does an excellent jobs, but struggle with the "small" things like worksheets or book work. I don't know if he really studies,but if he doesn't understand something he will smash his head into the book for several hours, even days.</p>
<p>He is only a junior and isn't failing classes,but just isn't getting the grades he could. Luckily it has been a bit of a wakeup call and he is doing a bit better. </p>
<p>That said, he wants a larger university because they will tend to have upper level classes in some subjects and diversity. Some LACs will work I imagine,but </p>
<p>Right now he is unsure of what he wants to do, He is thinking about Physics,Engineering,Political Science and European History. He is very picky with Physics and Engineering in particular. </p>
<p>I personally think he will make a great grad student,researcher or employee,but he has to get that far. His is definitely a leader, which is tough when you are only 16 since the obvious limitations.</p>
<p>Op, if it were my kid (and there were certainly parallels!) I would stop worrying (or try to stop worrying) about college per se and focus on his life as an adult in general.</p>
<p>Paying your taxes? filling out lots of stupid forms, getting them in on time, keeping track of many ridiculous pieces of paper. Getting the cable connected? A half a day off of work sitting around waiting for a guy in a truck who has a cellphone but refuses to call you to tell you that he's running an hour late. Getting a tooth filled? Two trips to HR to get the right form (hint- it's a different form than the one you filled out two weeks ago for a cleaning) and then arguing with the receptionist at the dentists office that even though the form used to be on a blue background it's now on a white background and s/he can call the insurance company to confirm that. Then have the claim rejected because two digits were reversed in the social security number. And finally- credit card rejected at the grocery store for no apparent reason requiring MORE stupid phone calls at the end of a long day of work.</p>
<p>Unless he plans to "live off the grid", many of our daily adult activities involve the same stupid worksheet filling in, getting documents in on time, not leaving critical papers in your locker when you are presenting to senior management, etc. Although I loathe much of HS busywork, as I watch my kids, now graduated from college and navigating professional jobs and real life, I realize it all had a purpose. If you don't fill out massive numbers of forms when you start your job you won't get a paycheck next week like everyone else. If you don't hand things in on time to your boss, s/he will start giving you bad or stupid or lame projects instead of the really interesting fun stuff which goes to the highly motivated and ambitious.</p>
<p>I would encourage you to help him find coping strategies to deal with the mindless stuff he's handed as a good preparation for real life. He will do fine in college- he's intellectually curious, has a great mind, and will love the professor/student discourse.</p>
<p>Read the threads from mothers of boys and you'll see lots of scenarios similar to yours. We've all been there with above average intelligent boys who just can't seem to wrap there arms around the tasks...jee...I know lots of adult men who struggle with that too..hummmm....</p>
<p>blossom, great perspective on the importance of learning to deal with the boring busy work!</p>
<p>The OP's son reminds me of a colleague's son--graduated high school with a 2.something but was a NM semi-finalist. He went to our state flagship; due to the criteria that many have pointed out, he didn't even qualify for Honors there initially. But he thrived at college; he graduated with a 3.9 and just graduated from an Ivy League law school. The key for him was finding a major that interested him (and that there is a lot less busywork in college classes in general).</p>
<p>Even at the large publics you can avoid the kids who aren't there to learn--they won't be in the difficult majors. Even gen ed classes have varying reputations, and they will also be avoiding the ones that have a reputation of being tough. Plus, there is enough diversity of students to self-select a peer group with common attributes. So even if you don't think your own state public is an option, you might want to check out some in other states. Some are hard to get in OOS, others which don't have IS quotas have comparable profiles between IS and OOS students.</p>
<p>If he wants an engineering degree you might look at schools that do not make you declare a major until the Sophomore year. At a college that has an engineering school that you have to actually apply to, it is extremely difficult to be accepted unless you have the grades. Sorry, it may not be fair, but it seems to be the way it is.</p>
<p>I speak from experience being that the 9 schools visited this year were visits to the engineering programs 2 of which were U of Mich and Penn State.</p>
<p>There are many universities that may be a match if he can get over the location and "who has heard of it" hurdles. Many states have technology/science/engineering campuses where he may thrive and be surrounded by like-minded and bright students. (note: not all schools with "tech" in the name really are... see Texas Tech as an example) Maybe look at the threads where kids with your son's interests but higher GPA's got scholarships - those may be wonderful schools that will consider him with a lower GPA.
He may do well at, say, New Mexico Tech and be as successful in later life / grad school as kids who got into more famous schools because they learned earlier to do the details.</p>