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<p>Poster from #19 persistently refuses to acknowledge the existence of career paths which lie in between “physician” and things like “shoe polishing.”</p>
<p>Yep. There is the time honored profession of polishing physicians’ shoes. ;)</p>
<p>Also, shoe polishers are sometimes really awesome.</p>
<p><a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_of_Time_(film[/url])”>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_of_Time_(film)</a></p>
<p>"Poster from #19 persistently refuses to acknowledge the existence of career paths which lie in between “physician” and things like “shoe polishing.”</p>
<p>Ah yes, you completely missed my point. Not surprised. OP posters like these persistently refuse to acknowledge the fact that people who have GPA’s less than a 3.5 have the ability, or the competence to become a physician. This is obviously not true and there are plenty of people who get into to med school with a lower GPA than the typical “Harvard” student.</p>
<p>My point of presenting doctor and shoe polishing wasn’t to you with two alternative career paths, but to show that no matter what career you choose OP, you are always going to regret not being able to become a doctor - and it would be no different from shoe polishing because your gonna be unhappy for the rest of your life. No one has the right to tell you what you can or cannot do. If you really want to get into med school, you will find a way to make it happen. Go make a plan of what you need to do, ace the rest of your classes, get some awesome Ecs, destroy the MCAT, maybe do a postbac or an SMP and see where that takes you. Don’t give up on your dream because of statistics or anonymous CC cynics who have nothing better to do with their free time. Good luck.</p>
<p>My point of presenting doctor and shoe polishing wasn’t to you with two alternative career paths, but to show that no matter what career you choose OP, you are always going to regret not being able to become a doctor - and it would be no different from shoe polishing* because your gonna be unhappy for the rest of your life**.*</p>
<p>Dramatic much?</p>
<p>Seriously. I have an older niece who never got accepted to med school (her dream). Her MCAT was not super and her GPA was a 3.5 from a popular LAC. She went 2 admission rounds and got no acceptances.</p>
<p>Yes, she will never be a doctor, but she’s accepted that and has moved on to another career path that she enjoys (she was a math major). Sure, at times, she’ll probably think back and wish she had gotten a higher GPA - which she probably would have if she had gone to one of her state schools (Purdue or IU). However, to believe that she’ll " be unhappy for the rest of her life" is just silly. She’ll be happy with her accomplishments. When she marries, that will be another source of happiness. When her children are born, that will be another source.</p>
<p>Being unhappy for the rest of your life better involve more serious things than not getting into med school. I have an aunt who lost 2 young daughters tragically (separate incidents - one an illness at age 3, one a car accident at age 5.). Now, THAT would cause someone to be unhappy for the rest of their life (yet, she is amazingly upbeat…thank God).</p>
<p>Well it boils down to the individual I guess. Your niece is able to live with the fact that she wasn’t smart enough to achieve her dream. Good for her, I could never do that, it would make me feel incompetent everyday of my life knowing that I let my dream slip away, especially if I ever needed to go to the doctor for anything. Failure is not something that happens, or is accepted in my culture. For me - not getting into med school is a big deal. </p>
<p>OP, you can either choose to keep going and give it your all, or you can quit. If you find something else that is equally fulfilling that you would be truly happy doing other than medicine then by all means go for it, but my point is, don’t quit because you think your GPA is low. There are ways to overcome that and people have gotten into med school with a low GPA, despite whatever “other career options” people on CC tell you to look into.</p>
<p>*there are plenty of people on MDapplicants.com who got into Drexel with a sub 3.4 *</p>
<p>Do we know WHO those people are?</p>
<p>Did they have a super high science GPA, but a lower cum GPA (maybe because English isn’t their first language)?</p>
<p>Are any of them URMs? </p>
<p>Did they have an amazing MCAT to compenstate (like a 38+)</p>
<p>D had a 3.6 GPA (science & overall) at high-ranked State U. majoring in physiology, but not-quite-30 on the MCAT in two tries. Plenty of shadowing/experience as well, but struck out on allopathic schools in her 1st admission round. Worked in research for a year, applied MD and DO and was admitted to a good osteopathic school, where she’s doing great as an M1.</p>
<p>I do believe there’s a rough formula at some but maybe not all MD programs–you need 30 or higher on the MCAT for starters.</p>
<p>Well it boils down to the individual I guess. Your niece is able to live with the fact that she wasn’t smart enough to achieve her dream. Good for her,</p>
<p>OMG…</p>
<p>Nowhere did I say or imply that she wasn’t “smart enough” for med school. She’s a very smart girl. She now has a BS and a MS in Mathematics.</p>
<p>Like I said, if she had gone to IU or Purdue, she would have likely had a much higher GPA. Her MCAT was ok, just not high enough to compensate for a 3.5 GPA. </p>
<p>And…from your own post, it sounds like your GPA is even lower…so…</p>
<p>*So you screwed up, we all have, I sure as hell did, but im not giving up. My gpa is currently lower than yours and im Indian to boot. Since there are no Indian pre meds with low GPA’s it makes it a tougher battle for me when med schools try to fill in their ethnic quotas. However despite all this, I am not quitting my goal to be an MD and get a career in shoe polishing. *</p>
<p>Your niece is able to live with the fact that she wasn’t smart enough to achieve her dream. Good for her. I could never do that, it would make me feel incompetent everyday of my life knowing that I let my dream slip away, especially if I ever needed to go to the doctor for anything. Failure is not something that happens, or is accepted in my culture.</p>
<p>Well, any society that can’t be understanding or supportive when things don’t go as originally planned is going to have too many depressed or suicidal people.</p>
<p>You need to aim for a 3.7 undergrad gpa. But that is highly unlikely at this point. </p>
<p>1) To get there, you need to finish with as many A’s as you can.<br>
2) Consider a 5th year of post-grad undergraduate science courses to boost your undergraduate science GPA. (I believe Penn offers such a program.)
3) Take the MCAT and score well. Apply to a Special Master’s program, such as offered Penn or Georgetown, or Boston U, Drexel, or…</p>
<p>"OMG…</p>
<p>Nowhere did I say or imply that she wasn’t “smart enough” for med school. She’s a very smart girl. She now has a BS and a MS in Mathematics.</p>
<p>Like I said, if she had gone to IU or Purdue, she would have likely had a much higher GPA. Her MCAT was ok, just not high enough to compensate for a 3.5 GPA. "</p>
<p>Well the fact that she didn’t get in twice is an implication itself </p>
<p>“Well, any society that can’t be understanding or supportive when things don’t go as originally planned is going to have too many depressed or suicidal people.”</p>
<p>Well that is the society I was brought up in. When I failed, I was looked upon as incompetent and incapable rather than understanding or support. I can’t change that, but im starting to climb out of the depression that has held me back my whole life. It is what it is and it boils down to the individual’s choice and perspective on things. It all depends on how badly you want it OP.</p>
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<p>I applaud your perseverance and positive attitude. Unless I missed it, you did not state what your current undergrad status is (sophomore/junior?) and how many undergrad semesters remain for you to try to improve your GPA. If you are into your junior year you really need to be more realistic because the road would be VERY uphill even if your were a URM …given your Indian descent, you are actually more like an OVER represented minority in Med school applications which really lessens the odds.</p>
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<p>I sincerely hope for your sake and sanity that you will find a way to cope/deal with it IF you are not accepted into a US med school where admissions is a crap shoot even for the highly qualified candidates. There are many other ways to measure success. Hopefully you can find one if things don’t ultimately go the way you hope they will.</p>
<p>There is no need to attack others who are offering advice and assistance here. We come to help those with questions and problems and to pool our collective knowledge and real world experience to try to help others who many times feel like they are lost.</p>
<p>Lose some of the bravado when others try to lend advice…remember, God gave us two ears and one mouth for a reason.</p>
<p>Good luck!</p>
<p>at eadad: </p>
<p>Thank you and I am in my junior year. I realize that this will be a severe uphill battle for me since I am the only Indian pre med with a low gpa at a no-name undergrad school. When med schools try to fill in their ethnic quotas, I understand that I will be competing against Indians with much better stats than me. With all due respect I am tired of people telling me to be realistic and implying that im too stupid for medicine. Yea I get it im an idiot for screwing up 2.5 years of UG. Ill find a way around that and somehow get in. I am considering transferring schools so that I can spend an extra year taking classes, which would mean that I could hypothetically apply with a 3.39 or 3.4. I know that it will probably be the lowest GPA in my ethnic quota but its still better than nothing.</p>
<p>Unfortunately for my sake and sanity I can’t. I plan to ace the rest of my classes, try to do really really well on the MCAT, shadow, volunteer for some medical non-profits, other ECs, take some time off to do a public health related research project in India after I graduate, maybe do an SMP. If I do all of that and still don’t get in, ill just try again next cycle, then the cycle after that, and the cycle after that till I do. There is no room for failure in my culture, and I already know that people are going to give me a hard time (parents, relatives, friends) in my cultural circle because im not going to get into HMS or Stanford like they did. </p>
<p>The fact ill be going to “low tier” med school, do an SMP, apply more than once etc, itself bums me out because people in my cultural circle don’t do those things, they just get into Stanford or JHU. Success is measured by me achieving my goals, and OP I hope that you can achieve yours. Its easier for you since you aren’t Indian anyways.</p>
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<p>I didn’t say that and don’t believe that I saw anyone else say it either…in fact I haven’t seen anyone here demean you in any way.</p>
<p>My concern is real and stems from two things; first hand observance of a meltdown/psychotic break from reality of the child of some friends who could no longer deal with what was actually self imposed pressure and stories of classmate melt downs from the my third year med student son. Putting that kind of pressure on yourself at this stage is both dangerous and frightening to consider…especially given your comments about already having battled depression.</p>
<p>There are other ways to be a success in the field of health care…IF you don’t find success in med school admissions, there are many wonderful opportunities to make a REAL difference in the world in the field of public health both here and abroad…and someone as driven and passionate as you can be a difference maker…don’t forget that.</p>
<p>Again, my sincere best wishes for your success…</p>
<p>*"OMG…</p>
<p>Nowhere did I say or imply that she wasn’t “smart enough” for med school. She’s a very smart girl. She now has a BS and a MS in Mathematics.</p>
<p>Like I said, if she had gone to IU or Purdue, she would have likely had a much higher GPA. Her MCAT was ok, just not high enough to compensate for a 3.5 GPA. "</p>
<p>Well the fact that she didn’t get in twice is an implication itself……*</p>
<p>No, it’s not.</p>
<p>It’s more of an implication that she didn’t apply to enough schools both cycles…each time, she only applied to 5 (long story, but mostly because she was already up to her eyeballs in debt from pricey undergrad).</p>
<p>AND, the fact that she went to a harder LAC than was necessary AND she took a hard major - math. </p>
<p>I really think that if she had gone to Indiana (for cheap with merit), she would have had a higher GPA, the funds to do a MCAT prep class, and the money to apply to 12-20 med schools…and I think she would have been admitted. </p>
<p>I know for a fact that neither she nor her parents had the money for lots of apps and funds for travel/interviews. They made a huge mistake by over-borrowing for her pricey LAC with the idea that doing so would be ticket to med school. Grandma had to front her the money for the few apps she did submit. </p>
<p>So, the problem wasn’t one of intelligence…the problem ( a common one) was choosing an unaffordable undergrad that limited her chances in the end. </p>
<p>If she and her family are going to have any long-lasting negative feelings, it will be when her younger cousins do get into med school after having attended lower-ranked and cheaper undergrads. </p>
<p>* since I am the only Indian pre med with** a low gpa at a no-name undergrad school**. When med schools try to fill in their ethnic quotas,** I understand that I will be competing against Indians with much better stats than me**. With all due respect I am tired of people telling me to be realistic and implying that im too stupid for medicine. Yea I get it im an idiot for screwing up 2.5 years of UG.** Ill find a way around that and somehow get in**. I am considering transferring schools so that I can spend an extra year taking classes, which would mean that I could hypothetically apply with a 3.39 or 3.4. I know that it will probably be the lowest GPA in my ethnic quota but its still better than nothing.</p>
<p>*</p>
<p>I don’t know all the “ins and outs” of applying, but my guess would be to do 10 or 11 semesters…carefully choosing courses (including sciences) that will net a perfect GPA to bring up your lower GPA.</p>
<p>If you carefully choose your courses and profs (using ratemyprofs…) then you could carefully carve out schedules with the better/best profs to get those perfect grades.</p>
<p>@ eadad: Sure you didn’t say it, but you did imply it when you said that “I need to come to reality, there are other fields in healthcare etc, as if I couldn’t make it to med school.” Point is that maybe true, but im not interested in other fields of healthcare as a career. I want to be a doctor - the source rather than some peripheral factor in a person’s happiness. Like I mentioned earlier, I do plan on taking some time of after I graduate to do some work in healthcare where I would be exposed to those things - but its not my life goal. The point that I have been trying to make to the OP is that despite what you, or anyone else on here says about giving up med school and pursuing another career, if you want it bad enough then you can make it happen despite the odds.</p>
<p>@ mom: I hope you realize that there are only 8 semesters in a normal undergraduate career. As a junior I have 3 left, 5 if I transfer so that advice doesn’t even make sense.</p>
<p>As for your niece, if she wanted it bad enough, she would have learned and applied to a wider variety of schools after that, she still can if she wanted to but chose to give up. As I said, some people want it more than others I guess, and when her younger cousins do get into med schools she will feel like a huge underachiever, I know that feeling well.</p>
<p>I went to the MDApplicants.com site which listed 47 accepted applicants for Drexel. Of these, 41 had reported their undergraduate GPAs. Of these 41, 4 accepted applicants had overall GPAs of less than 3.4. and are summarized below.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Overall GPA of 3.36 but had a science GPA of 3.49 and an MCAT score of 34 which is considered very high.</p></li>
<li><p>Overall GPA of 3.37 with MCAT of 32 which is a strong score.</p></li>
<li><p>GPA of 3.37, accepted at 4 other medical schools including New York Medical College and the University of Maryland.</p></li>
<li><p>GPA of 3.10, which was the only one accepted with a GPA not close to 3.4. However, she had an MCAT score of 35 which is considered very high. This included a 14 out of 15 on the Biological Sciences section of the test. This sector is the one that medical schools put the most weight on and a score of 14 on any section is extraordinarily rare. Only a relative handful of applicants in the entire country would have had a score this high. She was accepted at six other medical schools including Ohio State University and the University of Maryland.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>As can be seen, less than 10% of accepted applicants at Drexel had overall GPAs of less 3.4 and three were only slightly below 4.0 with very good MCAT scores. The one accepted applicant well below 3.4 accomplished an extraordinarily rare feat on the MCAT.</p>
<p>The average accepted applicant at Drexel had a GPA of 3.59 and an MCAT score of 32.</p>
<p>If anything the MDApplicant data show that applicants with a GPA less than 3.4 have a very poor chance of acceptance at Drexel and to be accepted with a GPA more than a few hundredths of a GPA point below 3.4 requires a nearly unique accomplishment in another area.</p>
<p>Therefore, I still contend that if you have a GPA of 3.3 or less without some sort of unique achievement you have essentially no chance of acceptance into the MD program at Drexel University School of Medicine.</p>
<p>*@ mom: I hope you realize that there are only 8 semesters in a normal undergraduate career. As a junior I have 3 left, 5 if I transfer so that advice doesn’t even make sense.</p>
<p>*</p>
<p>Uh…of course I KNOW that there are 8 semesters in a normal undergrad. I am a college grad, and I have a son graduating in May.</p>
<p>I offered the suggestion (which does make sense) of doing 10/11 semesters of undergrad to increase your GPA. Right now, you only have 3 semesters left (if only doing 8), which is why your opportunity to increase your GPA is so limited. BUT, if you do 5/6 more semesters, your chances for increasing your GPA rise. </p>
<p>This would allow you to take 14/15 credits per semester (not too many) and have the best chances at a 4.0 this way. I’m concerned that if you try to do too much science-math-wise in the next 3/4 semesters, you either won’t get the straight A’s and/or you won’t be able to take enough science classes to help with your science GPA. </p>
<p>it seems to me that you need to take higher level math and science classes to prove that you can get A’s in those classes.</p>
<p>I don’t know if transferring is a good idea, unless money is no object.</p>
<p>@ Lemaitre 1: That still shows that even with a low GPA, all you need is a high MCAT and some killer ECs to get into to Drexel. The % of people with a low GPA but who managed the other two who go in is pretty high.</p>
<p>@ mom: I am trying to take as many upper level science classes as I can. So by doing 5/6 more semesters, your implication is that I should transfer?</p>
<p>OP sorry for hijacking your thread, but I hope you got my point.</p>
<p>
@Lemaitre1, although I agree with you on almost all points in your post, I am not very sure whether the statement “the Biological Sciences section …is the one that medical schools put the most weight on.” It is likely the section that most premeds put the most weight on though due to their egos – until some of them hit the brick wall on the MCAT VR section 
(However, if what you posted is indeed true, DS would be very happy as his BS score is just like that )</p>
<p>Just like the verbal section of PSAT is more important than its math section, I guess the MCAT verbal section score is more important just because more applicants tend to have a harder time to get a high score on it. VR=14 is rarer than BS=14 or PS=14. My guess is that there may be more PS=14 scorers. BTW, I heard that one of the reasons why the PSAT verbal section is weighted twice more than the math section is that they want to make the test “harder” – especially for those whose GPA is good but has no good growing-up environment (e.g., those in this country not too long, even though they may have a very good study habit.) Maybe another reason is math skills is not that important, as compared to verbal skills, for college education (and esp. true for premeds who are not interested in academic/research medicine) unless you are really into hardcore science-y academics in your future plan (phD program instead of MD program.)</p>
<p>kristin once posted what she learned from AAMC site that, each year, there are about 400 applicants applying with 3.8+/39+.</p>