You could work on a cruise ship, lol.
In reference to
to which my response is, no thanks, I’d rather not have my coworkers drinking.
Google is a company with its strengths and weaknesses. There are a lot of valid and meaningful criticisms of the company and I know a lot of people who have had bad experiences there. Don’t act like it’s some sort of holy untouchable entity that can do no wrong.
Alright, the reference to software work specifically was perhaps missing the point. The real point is that if you watch movies like The Internship or The Social Network, you may perceive that a fun “fake perks” environment like that depiction of Google or Facebook (startup version) is where you want to be. My point is that those perks look nice but they aren’t what really matter - those things referenced as “real perks” are. This is irrelevant to whether or not Google or Facebook or Startup X specifically is like that, but the general feeling that you are looking for.
Agree to disagree it is. Honestly I think the way you interpreted the point I was trying to make was entirely missing the point. And as a final note I will add that if we’re talking about specific life examples, I know many people who chased after those things I call “fake perks” and only realized many years later that what I refer to as “real perks” are what they should have been after in the first place. Many of those took a worldview similar to what the OP has here and eventually came to regret it in their later years.
I am sorry as I said I was signing off, but I don’t know in what world you live that the mere existence of beer on the premises equals drunk co-workers. Maybe you have worked with immature folks with no self control. At my shop it is not and has never been an issue, not even once, and your insinuation is insulting.
This is genuinely my last response to you, please do not address me or my posts again.
I was talking with someone who used at Disney. I said, “Why would you leave such a fun place.” He said, “It was fun for the customers, not for us. We had to work very hard to make it fun for them.”
I personally have never enjoyed traveling for work because most of the time I was just in and out. I didn’t have much time to enjoy wherever I was. I would prefer to make enough money to visit those places on my own.
My older daughter is doing a lot of traveling for work now. Recently she flew into Munich for a dinner then to London for a meeting and back to NYC next day. She was jet legged and didn’t have any time to herself. Some people may think they could stay up to party, but one would need to be very much on point when on a trip like that. Of course, flight delays just make those trips even more unpleasant.
Dress code varies from industry to industry and from coast to coast. One thing I would point out about the music business (first hand knowledge about 25 years out of date) is that musicians like their business managers to dress like business managers, not roadies. Mick Jagger or Whatever Hip Hop Guy may dress avant garde but they want the people handling their money to look like solid bankers. Great performers know that appearance matters. If it’s any consolation, artfully dyed blue or purple hair with a sharp business suit is considered quite acceptable in many parts of the tech and music industries.
It does kind of sadden me how many times I missed a chance to visit interesting places while on a business trip just because I either didn’t have time or didn’t have the energy to go sightseeing. Usually it was one day to recuperate from the plane ride, 1-3 all-day business obligations, then an early morning ride to the airport and another evening at home recuperating from the ride back.
@Otterma, a member of my family is a professional musician and a good part of his living comes from playing various gigs. He needs to pay a lot more attention to his attire and grooming than a corporate employee (or manager) with biz-casual dress code.
They also need to be very punctual and actively maintain their network and reputation. If someone is late for a gig or does a sloppy job, they will not get invited next time. Corporations are a lot more forgiving to their employees.
Actually, the computing industry is full of companies (not just famous ones) where the dress codes are relaxed, but the environment is highly productive. Having a relaxed dress code is not mutually exclusive to such things as career advancement, stability, healthcare, enough time to see your family after work, professionalism, etc. (although stability is not something that one should expect anywhere these days). A dressy dress code for non-customer-facing employees merely imposes extra cost and inconvenience to some employees while not saving the employer any money, and possibly putting the employer at a recruiting disadvantage. You may call it a “fake perk”, but it is not one that costs the employer any money, and does not prevent the employer from offering what you would consider real perks.
That said, for the OP, there are enough companies with non-relaxed dress codes that it may be too restrictive to search for jobs where “edgier” appearance like unusually dyed hair is not an issue.
I think of it as a “fake perk” in that it doesn’t really matter all that much either way if you have those or not. Yes, it’s nice to have some of those things. But what really matters is those things listed as “real perks” and I’ve seen too many cases where people care more about fake perks than real ones. That’s a mistake.
It’s funny reading this post. My 16yo daughter is completely into music (like every teenager, including myself a million years ago) and would be perfectly happy being a “concert photographer”, traveling with bands, etc. At some point you realize that just as you want to be paid for your work, other people demand the same! And if you’re going to be handling finances for them (people are very tight with money), they want someone who looks like they know how to deal with it and are trustworthy … i.e. there’s a reason why your parents dress the way they do!
You mentioned marketing and finance for TV shows. Buy the DVD set for a show with director/producer commentary tracks. The one I have in mind is the Battlestar Galactica DVD set (the Moore series from the 2000s). Listen to the commentary on it. It’s very educational about the entertainment industry. Money is scarce and tightly controlled. There’s a reason why the first and last few episodes have a lot of “pew, pew” special effects while the rest go into “character studies” … the shows run out of money! The “suits”, like your parents, say that if we’re only getting this much in and are spending more, something has to give.
About the only industry where you can dress the way to want and still make decent money is software development (as others have mentioned). I wore t-shirts, shorts, and flip flops all the time at a major company. All they cared about was whether the work was being done. They’d bring in tons of free food, free drinks, etc. … to keep you there on the job. It’s also one of the few industry sectors where demand for workers still exceeds supply. In addition, you can start your own little software business on the side with little funding, just a computer and some development tools (many excellent tools are free these days).
Anyway, that’s my two cents.
I care more about what I get paid rather perks. At the end of day, every perk you get comes out of what a company would normally pay you. It is not like they were going to pay you $100 then give you all the extra perks. It is more like they have $100 to spend, they pay $20 for perks and then pay you $80. I would rather take the $20 they would otherwise pay for perks to decide how I would want to spend it.
Relaxing the dress code for non-customer-contact employees doing ordinary office jobs does not have a monetary cost to the employer.
Presumably, if 10% of the work year is in paid holidays and vacation, you would be more interested in getting paid 10% more in exchange for holidays and vacation be unpaid? Or (if tax effects were evened out and ACA guaranteed issue of medical insurance is continued) in dropping employer-provided medical insurance in exchange for being paid enough extra to buy an equivalent value individual policy?
As I stated, far too soon for this young person to worry about a forever job. So many things will fall into place in the next few years.
I am so glad I was not in the appearances matter most business world- as an anesthesiologist I wore scrubs on a daily basis and value comfort over fashion. I feel sorry that those in business need to keep up appearances. Thank goodness for the easing of dress codes- especially for us women. The trend to less formality in our society has been a good one.
@yazylovescheese - My daughter could have written your post 7 years ago (except that her parents are scientists, not accountants). She wanted to manage an indie/emo/punk band or work for an alternative-type music magazine. She wanted a job where she could wear her Converse shoes and her obscure-band-tee-shirts and dye her hair blue. She’s an excellent writer but kind of quirky, personality-wise.
Unlike you, she was interested in some sort of business major. She chose an urban school in a large city with a good career center (that offered counseling, programs, and lots of internships.) The urban setting was perfect for her because she could check out lots of concerts and lots of potential employers. Her college actually did have music-career-related internships available, but they were highly competitive. Most of these internships were affiliated with the business school or the music department. One of her friends is now working in PR/marketing for a talent agency.
In my D’s case - well, she actually fell in love with accounting and now “dress(es) super formal everyday.” That accounting degree is pretty useful for a wide variety of careers (not just the stodgy ones…) but she decided not to go the music-related route. I guess what I’m saying is, make your career plans, choose a college carefully (take a look at that carer center!!), and be prepared to change your mind. And don’t underestimate the importance of internships and connections when you’re looking for your first job.
“Consultant: tend to dress dressier than most, in order to market and sell services.”
I think you read that somewhere but you don’t really know what’s going on. As a consultant for the last 14 years, I was casual-casual at the office (jeans fine) and business casual in front of clients - even senior ones. My clients were all Fortune 50 companies and absolutely no one had worn a suit in the last 10-15 years. Business casual is completely where it’s at. Honestly, when I see offices where the men and women all wear suits all the time, it strikes me as dated and out of touch.
@yazylovescheese, you have one amazing thing going for you that many of us would love to have, and that is time. You do not have to decide your career right now. You’re not even in college yet! There may be a job waiting for you when you graduate that hasn’t even been invented yet.
My advice to you is to really explore the subjects that interest you (and this is why going to a school with distribution requirements is a good thing), not because they could lead to a career, but because you really like the class. After a year or so, you should have a good idea of what your major should be. Then you major in that thing, and see where it takes you. You are not doomed to have a job you hate!
Casual dress code isn’t a “fake perk”, because that’s not fake money you would otherwise have to shell out on suits! They are not cheap.
Suits for around $100 aren’t hard to come by. And there is of course a lot of space between suits and “casual” dress.
Suits that someone buys for $100 are going to need frequent replacement, since they won’t stand up to wear. And frequent drycleaning is expensive.
I think you’re kind of out of touch with a lot of young people if you don’t think that the cost of formal business wear can be a problem for young people starting out. It doesn’t go unnoticed that being able to wear either business casual or casual-casual IS a perk these days, and not allowing it is often the mark of a stodgy industry or business that is behind the times.
Again, there is a lot of middle ground between "Somewhere that wouldn’t care if the workers dressed strange " and suits all the time. And sure, it’s not exactly pleasant to wear a suit to work every single day. It’s not awful, though I’m sure most people would rather avoid it. But it’s also not a huge deal and a great job that requires you to wear suits every day is still a great job (and the cost of replacing and cleaning suits is only somewhat higher than the cost of dealing with the general issue of having to maintain a good quality wardrobe). Most companies I’ve worked with have a dress code that is in the large middle ground of “business casual” which is a pretty nebulous term that varies depending on where you live specifically. And that’s fine, because it’s usually a range that most people are comfortable with.
The entire point is that this is all a micro-issue. If you think suits are some sort of ridiculous unfair requirement, then you’re wrong. They are not so expensive that a salaried full-time worker would have all that much time paying for them. And in fact, most companies want just basic professionalism rather than full suits. Wanting to be in a place where you can wear shorts and a t-shirt of your favorite band to work is not really so important a goal that you should structure your entire career around trying to find a place that offers that (and honestly it does degrade the workplace if everyone dresses like that). Instead, focus on the things that really matter, such as finding a career that will offer stability and give you a path forward. The dress code, a small issue and a nice-to-have that really shouldn’t be the focus of your career.