<p>I must say I am a bit dissappointed with the previous thread on the value of a medical career. Maybe everything that was written is accurate, although I question some things. For instance,</p>
<li><p>Is it not possible the medical field of MD in 10 years will be better than it is today because of all the baby boomers retiring? They will need a lot of high end care, and many will have better means to pay for it. Also if Doctors allow the HMO / Medicare system to regulate their income completely then there will be major problems.</p></li>
<li><p>Why do doctors not have a union so to speak to protect their interest against the HMO / Medicare Companies? Is it not concievable that they could present a case that if fees are reduced too much their will be no reason for doctors to practice? (Shortage of good ObGyn) has created huge salries for doc’s in states depleted with them. </p></li>
<li><p>Most averages state a MD will make more than 1$150k after expenses and I know some recent docs who do… is it really realistic to assume after 10 yrs of work you will only make 100-150k? If this is the case that is pretty horrible in regards to the compensation of a MD. Do current MD’s feel it is worth it for the reward of helping people? </p></li>
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<p>Ok now my situation… I am a 27 yr old Merchant Bank Regional Manager in NYC. I am a 50 perecent partner in our office(we just started it) as a sales rep I earn about $150-175k per year after expenses before taxes. As a Regional Manager I will earn residual income on our office performance. It is concievable that in 4 years my yearly income will go up from previously mentioned to about 500k. This will be a increase every year up to that point and evey year after that. This assumes that my sales office sells and my reps produce. Even with this I am strongly considering medicine. </p>
<li><p>I feel medicine will allow me to help others in a way business cannot. </p></li>
<li><p>I feel medicine will be dynamic, challenging and allow me to see multiple cases and keep my interest and learning up</p></li>
<li><p>I think you can still be your own boss in medicine if you begin your own practice. </p></li>
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<p>I have gotten mixed reviews of if I am nuts to leave my current situation. Ideally I will work while doing my Post Bac (I have a degree in MSIS) and build my residual so that when I begin school I will have a monthly income of 10-15k eventhough I have left the company. BUT lets assume I do not have this, and that I pursue medicine full time beginning during the post bac… Do Doc’s out there think the rewards outweigh the cost, or am I crazy to give up a good income / career because I feel a desire to practice medicine?</p>
<p>Sorry for the long message, all sorts of replies are welcome…</p>
<p>Go into medicine because you truly desire to help others and are drawn to the art of the science. We have GP friends who say they average a loss of about $20 a patient on an office visit from Medicare and worse from Medicaid. Reimbursement is not enough to cover office costs. Because their is either a govt entity or an insurance co. deciding what tests, etc are necessary, a physician may not be reimbursed for care given that he deems necessary or that may be necessary to cover yourself from malpractice. See you're pinched at both ends---one side screaming increased medical costs! and the other side claiming substandard care, thus malpractice. It is quite a tightrope. And if you are in private practice and not somewhat protected by a teaching institution it is even worse, even tho as you say you "can be your own boss"</p>
<p>I don't know why more can't be done to protect physicians--perhaps because they are treating patients and interested in science while the lawyers are filling up the seats of Congress!</p>
<p>I really don't see the situation changing soon for doctors because Congress has a lot of lawyers walking on its floors. Lawyers tend to make rules that benefit lawyers.</p>
<p>So again, if you are out to help people, medicine is the way to go! (An expensive and arduous way)</p>
<p>If you are out for financial security or the chance to "be your own boss", I would stick it out at your current job!</p>
<p>I was told it is illegal for Physicians to form unions, I am not sure if this is the case. As far as being your own boss it is something you can pursue if you wish, and one advantage I may have is that I enjoy business and the business aspect of running an office persae. It is possible with my background that it would be a less arduous task them from some other docs who have not dabbled in these things. I guess my issue is that I know I will be taking a hit big time financially, but even with that knowledge I am still drawn to the field. I guess one just needs to ask, is the rewards of practicing medicine worth the sacrafices?</p>
<p>Bigdaddy06, follow your heart, and don't worry about the money. It will be there if you want it. I run a large group practice of over 50 physicians. Our going rate for physicians in our specialty are over $200K first year after fellowship. It only goes up from there. Individuals with management skills like yours are valued by individuals like me who know the value added of physicians with more "life experience" than just medical school, residency and fellowships.</p>
<p>Thanks for the reply, you hit on something another physician I know shared with me... that my business background will enable me to do things normal physicians either may not want to do, or do poorly. This gives me some feeling of hope that doing something I want to do and helping others along with my business acumen will still allow me to be financially secure in medicine. </p>
<ol>
<li><p>I feel medicine will allow me to help others in a way business cannot. </p></li>
<li><p>I feel medicine will be dynamic, challenging and allow me to see multiple cases and keep my interest and learning up</p></li>
<li><p>I think you can still be your own boss in medicine if you begin your own practice.</p></li>
<li><p>This is probably true as you clearly care about people. Please be advised that healthcare is becoming a highly regulated field and you may not have the autonomy to practice medicine that is in the best interests of your patient. Restraints based on insurance company policies as well as at the federal level may preclude you from treating patients in the way that is in their best interests. A current example of this is that most insurance plans will not pay for preventative medicine. We treat disease once you have it but will do little to prevent it. </p></li>
<li><p>This is true as medical science will advance and you will be a student for life. </p></li>
<li><p>No matter what changes you will always be able to work for yourself. </p></li>
</ol>
<p>Lets step back and look at your situation. If you take off a year for coursework and apply to med school the following year (after MCAT) it will be 2008 at best when you enter medical school. Thus, it will be 2012 when you graduate. If you do just 4 years of a residency, it will be 2016. What will medicine be like in the year 2016? I cannot say, but please do not look at some of these posts by people in healthcare talking about what it is like in 2006, as the field will undergo drastic change by necessity. With global economics the US is in for a rocky road which is in part due to the high costs of healthcare in this country. If you ask me, by 2016 there will be federal legislation passed that highly regulates the way that medicine is practiced.</p>
<p>Sorry, one more thing. You mention the argument about baby boomer retirement and this is true. However, many people think that the majority of what an MD does can be done by a qualified Nurse Practitioner or Physician Extender.</p>
<p>You make a lot of valid points.... one of my concerns is the greedy insurance industry squeezing docs to fatten their belly's. Not only does it hurt a docs income, it does also regulate the care that can be given. It is my hope by 2016 the government will realize that if they do not put the necessary protection in place that many docs will leave and the country may be underserved. Unfortunaltly I never rely on the government for anything except that they take 40 percent of my income as a small business owner. I am just hoping their will be a demand for boutique practices were people will be willing to pay for superior service.... maybe i should move to beverly hills... also I am looking at more procedural type work so that is not hit as hard as FP etc...</p>
<p>NEW QUESTION : What do people think the landscape will be in 10 years time... will the government realize what the insurance industry is doing, or will they be greedy as well trying to pay for their medicare program? Lets face it, if docs only make 100k a year iin 2006 terms 10 years from now (150k with inflation) the government will have a problem. I make 2 times that with only 4 years of education...</p>
<p>I am 39 years old, have been a special education teacher for 15 years, and am considering pursuing a medical degree. I would really like to do research in pediatric neurology. The difficulty is I don't have any of the pre-requisites for med-school and still have a significant amount of debt from my 1st graduate degree. Most of my friends are supportive of the idea, but recently I was advised not to pursue this career because "it would be 10 years before you make any money." Do you have any advice?</p>
<p>Well, you'd have to take the pre-med requirements and the MCAT...for most people, that's going to be three semesters, more if you need to carry a job that limits when you can take classes. If you can't double/triple up on courses, it's going to be tough to get through with any sort of expediency. </p>
<p>Then you'll have 4 years of medical school, which may require you to move. There is zero way to have a decent paying job while you are in medical school as the time commitments are simply too great. In-state tuition will be somewhere between 15k-25k a year depending on where you go. If you have a spouse or savings that can support you while you're in school that helps, because you won't have to take out loans for living expenses...if not, then tack on another 15k to 25k on top of that. You'll will be taking on significant debt on top of what you already owe.</p>
<p>After that, you'll need to complete two years of residency training - one year in neuro, one in peds, then apply for the Child neurology fellowship which is three years. Currently resident/fellow salaries are about $42-45k a year, with raises between $1000 to $2000 each year you're in the program. Only after you're done with the fellowship would you be earning six figures. According to the AAMC Careers in Medicine page (which is unfortunately restricted access for current medical students only), the 25th to 75th %ile range of salaries for Child Neurologists early in their careers is $125k to $147k. </p>
<p>So depending on what you're able to get done as far as the pre-reqs, I'd say that it's a minimum of 4 years without income (while in med school), with perhaps an additional two years while working on pre-reqs. Without knowing your finances, based on your age though, I think you would be best served going back to school full time to fulfill the pre-med requirements. But I realize that may not be any sort of reasonable option financially.</p>
<p>
[quote]
1. Is it not possible the medical field of MD in 10 years will be better than it is today because of all the baby boomers retiring? They will need a lot of high end care, and many will have better means to pay for it. Also if Doctors allow the HMO / Medicare system to regulate their income completely then there will be major problems.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>There is no doubt that aging boomers will need care. Funding for this care is in question, not the need for care. The ratio of Medicare beneficiaries to Medicare wage earners has declined and will continue to decline over the next twenty years.</p>
<p>The HMO/Medicare system regulates physician income to a large extent already.</p>
<p>
[quote]
2. Why do doctors not have a union so to speak to protect their interest against the HMO / Medicare Companies? Is it not concievable that they could present a case that if fees are reduced too much their will be no reason for doctors to practice? (Shortage of good ObGyn) has created huge salaries for doc's in states depleted with them.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Doctors cannot discuss fees or cooperate on setting fees without violating antitrust laws.</p>
<p>
[quote]
3. Most averages state a MD will make more than $150k after expenses and I know some recent docs who do.... is it really realistic to assume after 10 yrs of work you will only make 100-150k? If this is the case that is pretty horrible in regards to the compensation of a MD. Do current MD's feel it is worth it for the reward of helping people?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Most current docs believe compensation will go down with time. Since medical services are compensated by third parties, increased demand does not translate to increased compensation.</p>
<p>
[quote]
1. I feel medicine will allow me to help others in a way business cannot.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>I feel medicine will be dynamic, challenging and allow me to see multiple cases and keep my interest and learning up</p></li>
<li><p>I think you can still be your own boss in medicine if you begin your own practice.
[/quote]
</p></li>
</ol>
<p>1 and 2 yes; 3 very tough, unless your definition of "own boss" is limited.</p>