<p>I have a few questions to ask the parents about life after college:</p>
<li><p>Do you recommend liberal arts college grads who are interested in grad school to work a few years or apply straight to grad school?</p></li>
<li><p>How useful were your majors after college? Did you later regret majoring in something that you did not want to study? What did you do about it?</p></li>
</ol>
<p>I think this is truly an individual decision, but will share some life experience, FWIW. I majored in English knowing I would go on to grad school before going into counseling as a career. I suspect I was mighty green when I got out of grad school at 23 and started working in the community mental health field, but I was enthusiastic, and I know I did help a few here and there. I think I would have had more to offer if I had taken a few years to live first, but I really didn't know what else to do to feed myself, and I was still very much in student-mode after college (LAC). I do NOT even for a second regret my major (did take lots of psychology courses but didn't like the behaviorist slant of the chair of the dept) and am glad to this day that I majored in English. </p>
<p>My DD graduated in 2004 from an LAC, and her profs were adamant that students wait a year or more to seek to get into a PhD program, but she didn't pay any attention. Her PhD program is very intense, and I though I know she is academically ready for it, sometimes I worry about the strain, especially the emotional strain, that a doctoral program puts on students. So far so good, but it is fairly early in the game.</p>
<p>If a student has any doubts about going on immediately, I would suggest waiting.</p>
<p>When I was in undergrad both of my parents died between sophmore and junior year. I wnet to work for an insurance company in the day time (because they had a great flex time schedule) and went to school some days early in the morning, other days 4 in the afternoon. I got a bachelors in marketing which I never used (i just wanted to finish and did not want to put in any extra time). I hated the job at the insurance company, but I was grateful that it helped me pay my tuition to finish college and quit right after graduation.</p>
<p>I knew I was not ready to go to grad school so I said I would take a year off and began temping. While temping I had a 3 week temp assignment turned into a full time job (I tell people that I have been on a 23 year long term temp assignment). </p>
<p>After working a few years and a couple of promotions, I got into a position that I was passionate about in HR and got a Masters courtesy of my employer. While I loved working in HR I really had a passion for education. A few years later when I got second masters in Educational Psychology with an emphasis on adult education ( did not even mind taking all of the undergrad psych courses) because all of it was paid courtesy of my same employer. Now I am in the process of trying to finish a PhD in counseling (getting ready for life after corporate life). </p>
<p>I know when my D came home from thanksgiving break, she told me that she she would be taking a break when she finishes her undergrad and will probably work for 2 years. I told her I totally understand and support her decision. Since this is what she has decided to do she is scheduling her D-plan to ensure that she does take an internship during a leave term. </p>
<p>I don't regret being a marketing major, while I did not want to be a marketeer,there were many things that I did learn as part of the degree program that I was able to apply to my work life. No major is ever really wasted because there will always be some transferrable skills that you could use. At the end of the day, there are many roads that will take you to the same destination.</p>
<p>As to going on to grad school... I went on to grad school immediately upon finishing my bachelors and graduated with two masters degrees (some may have called me a professional student). Looking back on it, I think I would have got much more out of my masters programs had I a couple years of experience under my belt. Masters level of study is much more thought and theory than the skill learned in your bachelors programs. Thought and theory means much more when combined with a foundation of experience. I would at least try to work in your field of choice while pursuing the masters if at all possible (even if only on a volunteer basis).</p>
<p>As to how useful... Your majors are what you make of them. I think the statistic today is that within five years the majority of students that graduate from college will be working in a field unrelated to what they studied as a major. College does one thing very well in practically all cases... it develops critical thought skills. These skills can be transferred to just about any field. </p>
<p>My recommendation to the students I work with is this... pick a field of study that you know you will enjoy and do well in, and pick a field that will give you a marketable skill. That marketable skill will get your foot in the door upon graduation, but it is entirely up to your creativity what you do after that point.</p>
<p>I went straight to grad school from undergrad as did my husband and we both were happy to get it out of the way. Sometimes life (marriage, children, etc.) makes it hard to go back. At the same time, virtually all grad schools want you to work first and some of the competitive MBA programs won't even accept you straight out of undergrad (I have heard). Getting your employer to pay the grad school bills, as mentioned by Sybbie, is one of the great perks of working first and is an option available at lots of the larger firms. But, in most cases you would be working during the day and going to school at night, the program takes longer, and requires more juggling.</p>
<p>As for major, I majored in Middle Eastern Studies but have always worked in finance (bond analyst). I never regretted my choice of undergraduate major and it has not been a detriment to my career even though it is totally unrelated. My graduate degree is a Masters of Public Affairs, which is the public sector equivalent to an MBA. I found it easy enough to learn on the job whatever skills were needed that I didn't pick up in school. </p>
<p>My son will be a freshman next year, majoring in engineering, but he has no plans to ever be an engineer. He loves math and hates English/writing and feels this would be an enjoyable undergrad experience. </p>
<p>In sum, major in whatever you enjoy. If your interests change, I wouldn't worry about changing majors unless you have plenty of money to afford being in school longer. You can fine tune your plans in grad school. Working first seems to be highly recommended and my husband is telling my son that is what he should do. But I feel uncomfortable giving advice neither of us took ourselves.</p>
<p>I worked for four years between undergrad (journalism degree) and law school...and went to law school at night while I worked full-time during the day...I had no plan or inclination to "do" grad school when I got out of college...the decision to go back four years later for a law degree came well after I'd been in the work force. Most of my law school classmates were also older (probably half considerably older than me...and I felt "ancient" having been out of undergrad for four full years), and almost all of us also worked at least full-time. THe day school, on the other hand, was populated by fresh-out-of-undergrad, intense younger kids...a totally different academic experience for them than for us (all of us in night school could and did take some day school courses throughout our four-year program)...academically, I learned/gained more from my night law school experience than I did from any other academic experience. The school was significantly better (Georgetown vs UIUC), but I was also older, paying for it myself, and doing it on top of working...quite likely I put as much more into it as I got out of it...</p>
<p>My S plans both masters and PhD/pro degree (he's considering law), and as of now, we both presume he will go "straight through"...he's only a freshman undergrad, tho, so this could change.</p>
<p>I don't think it makes a whole lot of difference, ultimately...it all depends on where your head and your pocketbook are when you graduate, what field you want to work in, and the degree to which you know what you want to do next...</p>
<p>Good luck whatever your decision...</p>
<p>The short and simple response that I will offer you is this: go straight to grad school after completing undergrad. I waited 12 years, and it was very difficult, although doable, going to grad school while working full-time and taking care of a husband and young daughter. Again, as someone else pointed out earlier, it really is an individual decision and is dependent upon any number of personal factors.</p>
<p>My husband worked for two years between undergrad (econ) and MBA. In fact, just about ALL of his MBA classmates had work experience. I think it would be more difficult if you had been out for more than ten years, though. I'm a pharmacist and the program was plenty long enough for me, but some pharmacists do go back for other degrees after working for a few years. As it has been mentioned, it is often the skills you learn that propel you forward, rather than your specific undergraduate degree.</p>
<p>TheAnalyst: I'm curious as to whether your son knows what he really wants to do. Mine is also in engineering but does not plan to be an engineer (he's thinking maybe law).</p>
<p>I am unusual in that I majored in , obtained an MS and work as a geologist. </p>
<p>I agree with the comments above, the only caution I would give is that if you go to work first, 'Life' may get in the way of returning to Grad School. </p>
<p>AS someone who has a science degree I do want to offer a comment on 'Liberal Arts" I agree with the comments that ultimately it may not make much difference, but I think many LA programs allow so much freedom of class selection that they are 'soft'... If you get some sort of LA degree or program, I would say you should have a high profeciency in writing, know the multitude of great western literature- with depth, know US and world history and can analyze it, Know and critically evaluate multiple positions in todays political climate, 4 semesters of at least one foreign language, At least introductory knowledge of Biology, Chemistry and Physics, and Solid knowledge of at least the basics of Mathematics and its impact on western thought and Philospophy ...Then consider things like gender or group specific history or literature, psychology etc ..... my opinion about some of what should be in every curriculum (Including technicial or engineering)</p>
<p>lkf725: My son doesn't know what he wants to do yet, but is leaning toward finance/MBA. We will advise him to try out a couple of options through internships as an undergrad. At many shops, the internship is in effect a long two-way interview opportunity. Kids also get a chance to see what skills they may be missing that should be strengthened before they graduate, which speaks directly zxc123's point. As for your son, law is a great degree that provides as much flexibility as an MBA in terms of varied career opportunities. I wish him luck.</p>
<p>As an undergraduate, major in what you enjoy, what fascinates you and what you do well in. If further research and study seem attractive in your senior year, then go to grad school and try to complete your Ph.D. within the next 5 years. If you're not sure, explore the job market for a couple of years first. Even liberal arts B.A.'s can go on to earn M.B.A.s later if that seems like the right career move. Even if your B.A. is in something impractical--English lit or philosophy--if you loved learning about it, you will never regret those years--there's time to think about the world of work after graduation. Of course, no harm in getting a few good internships under your belt early on.</p>
<p>pyewacket- Good point there -"If further research and study seem attractive in your senior year, then go to grad school and try to complete your PhD within the next 5 years."</p>
<p>The only thought I have is... the concern of the burn-out even though the student can't imagine herself doing anything else after graduation. Though she's pretty much excited to keep going on the academic track, is it suggested that she should get off for a year to keep herself "fresh"? Isn't one of the problems with grad school and students coming right out of undergrad- the burn out?</p>
<p>I think that you need to make a distinction between getting a PhD -- especially in a technical area like economics, physics, or math -- and going on to business school or law school. In the latter cases, work experience is often quite valuable. With top MBA programs it is virtually required.</p>
<p>In contrast, there is little to be gained from a year off if you're going for a research PhD. In my area of economics, students who have worked for a few years are at an active disadvantage when applying, unless they can show that they've spent those years boning up on advanced mathematics and economics. Grad school is a completely different game. Professors don't look for well-rounded students. They don't want ECs. They don't want work experience. They're not looking for "balance" in the entering class. They're looking for one thing only -- the probability that you'll be a top notch academic researcher.</p>
<p>Of course, you may find that for personal reasons, a year off is useful to get perspective on life. In which case it's a very good idea.</p>
<p>I speak as someone who switched from an undergrad degree in physics to a Phd program in econ. I'm now a tenured prof and have been director of our PhD program and am always amazed how little students know about grad school, why they should or should not go, and where they should apply.</p>
<p>So it is best not to lump everything together as grad school. Think professional school (law, MBA, medicine) vs. grad school (PhD). A finance MBA is business oriented. A finance PhD is nearly equivalent to doing a PhD in Applied Math.</p>
<p>One more thing: In many top schools, you don't go for a Master's. An MA in a good econ, business, physics, poli sci, math, chemistry, etc. program is a consolation prize for those who drop out of a PhD program. Saying you want to get an MA or to work in industry after grad school is the kiss of death during admissions. In very rare cases, a top MBA who decides to do research can switch into a PhD program at the same school.</p>
<p>Do you recommend liberal arts college grads who are interested in grad school to work a few years or apply straight to grad school?"</p>
<p>I did it both ways: went straight to grad school after college, and then returned to grad school in a different major after working for several years in the major related to my first graduate school experience.</p>
<p>I was far more mature and focused the second time I went to grad school (even though both times, my grades were high). I also thoroughly appreciated graduate school more the second time and also had stronger relationships with profs, who I basically related to like peers even though most were a couple of decades older. I am still friends with my dissertation advisor.</p>
<ol>
<li>How useful were your majors after college? Did you later regret majoring in something that you did not want to study? What did you do about it?</li>
</ol>
<p>I still regret the fact that due to my well meaning mother's pressure, I switched out of African American studies into political science as an undergrad. I loved African American studies and an undergrad background in it would have assisted me with everything that I've done since. Mom thought that majoring in African American studies would prevent my getting a job, but it actually would have helped me in the fields that I went into. A classmate who majored in African American studies got some nice jobs after graduation and even ended up marrying a famous actor as a result of one job.</p>
<p>I have never had the desire to do graduate work in African American studies, so have done my graduate work in other areas of interest: journalism, psychology. I continue, however, to do lots of reading in African American studies and have attended workshops and similar things related to that field.</p>
<p>After knowing you through various Internet forums for several years, I think that you could benefit by spending a few years in the work force before going to grad school. As is the case with most undergraduates, you're still not sure what you want to do after graduation. You also could benefit by becoming more sophisticated about the workplace and the world in general. The kind of sophistication that I'm referring to is the kind of things that one learns through direct experience, not through mentoring by parents. I know that your mom is well educated school executive, so you get good mentoring from her.</p>
<p>Still, there are things that one learns only by going through them during a longer period than a summer internship. That's the kind of experience that I think would benefit you.</p>
<p>tickelmepink,</p>
<p>I went to grad school in Eng. Lit. right after college. There was plenty of work--but all in a field I loved--with no other requirements on my time. So I felt that period of my life was more of a privilege to immerse myself in books and literary conversation--not at all an occasion for burnout. Science grad school may be more taxing --if it involves long hours in a lab?? But if you want to be an academic, it is wise to get that Ph.D. under your belt without undue procrastination.</p>
<p>"An MA in a good econ, business, physics, poli sci, math, chemistry, etc. program is a consolation prize for those who drop out of a PhD program. Saying you want to get an MA or to work in industry after grad school is the kiss of death ..."</p>
<p>This is an excellent point. Not having the terminal degree is worthless if you plan to go into research; however, a PhD for someone planning to work in business can be an equal kiss of death or at least a way of lowering his/her salary. One firm told me they love to hire PhD's because "they can get them so cheap." Other firms would be wary of hiring a PhD at all, while a master's degree in econ would be OK. There is more potential risk around making an unwise grad school decision than a poor undergrad decision, in my opinion. It really depends on the field.</p>
<p>TheAnalyst is right about the business world and the low value of PhDs. But there's a Catch-22. Even if you want to get an MA and work in industry, you can't apply to most top programs for an MA. You need to enter the PhD program and they are unlikely to accept you if they feel that you're likely to want to drop out and work in industry or consulting.</p>
<p>Also groups like the World Bank, OECD, and some top research consulting groups only hire PhDs. While other firms prefer the more saleable MAs or even better, MBAs. PhDs in finance, however, are extremely marketable to investment banks and the like.</p>
<p>You see the problems?</p>
<p>So you're right. Going to grad school is utterly unlike applying to undergrad. It is highly field specific and mistakes are much more costly.</p>
<p>I need to add one more thing. If you get a PhD and decide to work in industry, you will earn less than if you were an MBA. However, you can still get a job, albeit with more difficulty.</p>
<p>In contrast, if you want to be a research professor in econ or finance, every year spent away from school is potentially a negative. There were top notch PhDs who got good academic offers who decided to enter business. They can't come back.</p>
<p>I know a very smart guy who went to New York, made a fortune in about 10 years and then tried to return to academia. It was hopeless. No decent place would offer him a position at the lowest salary.</p>
<p>So going for a research PhD is a bit like going for priesthood. The financial rewards are meagre, but if you want in, there's only one route through.</p>
<p>I totally endorse the previous poster's remarks on this thread. In most fields in sciences, social sciences, and humanities, if you're going for a PhD it's more efficient to go directly from undergraduate school into a PhD program. I would say this is especially true in fields in which math is important and there is a risk that your math skills (maybe not your aptitude) will atrophy outside of a college environment. On the other hand, in some multidisciplinary fields such as environmental science (there are many others), having some relevant in-field experience prior to grad school can be helpful in providing perspective and refining your interests. And in some, a "time out" in the Peace Corps or similar service also can help to inform a choice of later grad studies, including the PhD. </p>
<p>I think proceeding directly from undergrad to grad school is also reasonable for law school. But for business, having 3-4 years of work experience after your baccalaureate degree is highly desirable and typical.</p>
<p>In community colleges I have met both instructors who don't even have a BA- ( in technical classes) and those with a PHd. Those with terminal degrees don't necessarily stay long, a music instructor I had, is now at Northwestern, and the instructors who began without a BA are working on it. Technical ( computer) skills can be hard to find and a degree is not really necessary to teach, the CC recognizes this.( plus they save lots of money that way)
It can be much harder than you expect however to get into a PHd program. I refer to one young woman with a degree from a top school,with research experience and summa cum laude in the classics who wasn't accepted to grad school. HOwever,she limited her applications to top schools ( Ann Arbor etc). Even if you have a degree from a top 20 school, expand your searching to "lower tier" schools for graduate work. Graduate school is much more competitive than undergrad.</p>