Career plans for the painfully indecisive

Parents Forum
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<p>I'm starting all sorts of threads asking for advice lately, but this summer has given me so much to think about. I hope nobody minds. :o</p>

<p>Lately I've been thinking about career choices, because my summer internship has turned some of my plans completely upside down. I was planning for a government (political science) degree, a master's in something related, and a career in international relations, perhaps at an international organization or a think tank -- except now I'm an intern at a D.C. think tank, and I realize I hate the work.</p>

<p>I hate that I sit in front of a screen the entire day; that there are no concrete results; that all the work is individual, not collaborative; that there's no urgency in anything; but mostly, that my organization wants to save the planet and I still feel like an android/suit/office drone/whatever you want to call it.</p>

<p>And I'm not sure I can do this, but I don't know how to do anything else. Both my parents are in international relations; I'm multilingual (Swedish, French, some Spanish); I grew up in five cities in four countries on two continents; my best grades are in government, geography, and public policy. I'm good at it. I just... don't really like it as much as I thought I did.</p>

<p>There's been so much written here on finding your passion, and when I think about what my passion really is, what really makes me happy, it's things like spending hours in the drawing studio, traveling somewhere interesting to photograph it, or designing a graphic for a website. I've always dismissed that as impractical, but the last few weeks I've been thinking about ways that I could incorporate my interest in visual art and design into a reasonably profitable career.</p>

<p>I've looked at architecture, and while the calculus and physics requirements for architecture grad school threw me off at first, I'd take that challenge if I knew that was what I wanted (I took four years of chemistry, three years of biology, and two years of physics in high school, and for a long time I wanted to be a neuroscientist, so it isn't as if I lack the capacity for logic). What makes me second-guess is the price tag of three years of professional graduate school, the timeframe (three years of grad school, three years of internship, first real job at 27, family when?), and the apparently brutal hours. I do, however, think I'd genuinely enjoy the work.</p>

<p>Then there's photojournalism (I take pictures for my college's newspaper and was photography editor of my high school paper), other types of photography, graphic design, and a number of other careers that I haven't researched in depth yet-- and of course careers that have nothing to do with design whatsoever but might be better suited to my personality type.</p>

<p>I'm a reasonably good writer, but I doubt I'd like a job where writing was the central activity. I hate interviews and public speaking but love working with others (collaboratively, on a team, or with clients, though I've never done that). I'm creative, but I'm also logical and analytical. I have a short attention span, but if I like a project, I can spend hours immersed in it. I'm thoughtful and in many ways intellectual, but I need tangible results to feel a sense of accomplishment. I like work that is fast-paced and varied. I don't like sitting in front of a computer without going anywhere or speaking to anyone.</p>

<p>I'm sorry this was so long, but this has been on my mind all summer. I don't even really know what I'm asking for, except do you have any suggestions? Experience? Words of assurance? Ideas what do do next? I have to declare a major in two quarters, and I also have to know what classes to take and what internships to pursue, so I'm feeling a bit stressed about all this.</p>

<p>Thank you, as always, for being so helpful.</p>

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<p>Hi Camellia, </p>

<p>we're in the same boat, almost! </p>

<p>I've always seen myself as doing something academic(law, teaching, economics, IR) but lately I've come to feel that I would give anything to work in the film industry as a composer. I also write, so I might combine that too, and produce. The past few months, I've been eyeing security, $ and prestige. The route I want to take is incredibly risky, because what's on paper won't help you (ie a degree), and there's no manual to get there=\ </p>

<p>I am also incredibly indecisive, and I've been investing so much effort into this finding out what I want to do with my life. Also, money doesn't hold that much of a lure, rather I want to be able to spend half of my day with people who think like me, and who are similar to me(creative people). </p>

<p>I'd previously dismissed anything creative as indulgent, but I don't know. If I could make it to the top, I would be so, so happy. To compose for the films that I love, to make beautiful soundtracks. God. I'm even willing to not have a family for it. </p>

<p>Oh yes, back to advice. I think you should contact Dartmouth's alumni and get an insider's view of how it'd be like. Also, you've got to realize what you're willing to give up - financial stability or ? </p>

<p>Imagine what it'd be like doing what you like/dislike when you're 30, 40, 50. Also, I've come to realize that if your heart is not in something, there's always a ceiling to realizing your full potential in that something.</p>

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<p>You are a data entry intern. I doubt that you would remain a data entry intern for long. People such as yourself tend to move up organizations rather quickly.</p>

<p>My daughter just started a job at a public policy/advocacy group in Washington. She is loving it. Great work environment and the city is crawling with recent college grads. Everywhere she goes, she is running into friends from other colleges, study abroad, etc.</p>

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<p>

No, I'm not. I do research and write reports. It doesn't seem all that different from what my supervisors do. </p>

<p>Mine is a small organization, granted, and not necessarily representative of political work in general... but I've also talked quite a bit to my parents (both fairly senior diplomats) about this, and I'm really starting to doubt that this line of work is right for me. You may be right, though; I won't dismiss it completely yet. I'm just interested in seeing what other options are out there.</p>

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<p>camelia... As I read your post, I kept thinking you ought to give journalism a try. You're a gifted writer, and your international experience and interest in world affairs/politics are a good combination for working in that field. I know many say that newspapers are a dying breed, but great papers are going to be around for a long time, and have expanded to the web. You might find a niche that involves graphic design or photography combined with content. But to start, reporting experience can provide a solid base for other pursuits. If you end up going to law school (not that you mentioned it :)), it will even help you with that. </p>

<p>Interesteddad could be right, though - it's perhaps too early to know how your original field of interest might evolve.</p>

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<p>I've thought about journalism, yes. I take pictures and copy edit for my college newspaper, and in high school, I edited the news section and photography, wrote, took pictures, and copy edited. I even took a journalism course spring term and did well. Honestly, what I really dislike about reporting is the interviews-- getting information out of people that they don't want to disperse; asking the tough questions; being insistent, even confrontational. Maybe that is an obstacle I could get over, but I don't think I'd like that sort of conflict on a daily basis. </p>

<p>I am considering other areas of journalism, and "a niche that involves graphic design or photography combined with content" sounds great, but I doubt I'd like pure reporting for that reason.</p>

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<p>I worry about journalism. Speaking as the daughter of two reporters, the sister of a reporter, and the aunt of a reporter... I am seeing a terrible decline in journalism. The daily papers are going away, one by one, and the TV news is based on six stringers in the entire world, as far as I can tell, and a lot of press releases.</p>

<p>I notice that camellia wants a job with real products: a design, a photograph, a building... So I would suggest to you, Camellia, that you look at jobs that have products. What about industrial design? Human factors engineering (also known as ergonomics)? Graphic design? Advertising? You mentioned that your job lacks urgency... what about police work? EMT? Nursing? Medicine? Health management? I'm trying to throw out ideas based on what you said you liked and didn't like--but ideas that are not obvious.</p>

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<p>Sorry. I misinterpreted this paragraph to mean that you were doing a menial task at the computer screen. I would not generally associate researching and writing reports as "android" or "office drone" work. My mistake.</p>

<p>
[quote]
I hate that I sit in front of a screen the entire day; that there are no concrete results; that all the work is individual, not collaborative; that there's no urgency in anything; but mostly, that my organization wants to save the planet and I still feel like an android/suit/office drone/whatever you want to call it.

[/quote]
</p>

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<p>Oh, it's the "sitting in front of the computer all day without going anywhere or talking to anyone" part that makes me feel that way, not that the work itself is particularly menial. It just sort of feels like writing papers -- which is fine and all, just not something I'd say I have a "passion" for.</p>

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<p>Camelia, unless you need fast cash to pay for a liver transplant, you really don't need to be planning your future in quite so much detail right now. If every intern made their future plans based on one crappy summer, the world would stop functioning. There are plenty of happy people in grown up jobs who were miserable once upon a time in that same line of work.</p>

<p>So I would not rule anything out based on your current experience. I would allow the bad internship to open up some additional doors that you wouldn't have considered previously which is not at all a bad thing.</p>

<p>Your degree may or may not be good pre-professional training for what you end up doing, but there are people this very minute in the Sudan arranging for delivery of medical equipment, or people on Capitol Hill lobbying a Congressperson for more funding for their cause, or people in a corporate suite in NY briefing a foundation on their program's results last year and how many people were saved, treated, helped or whatever due to their contribution. At one time they all had jobs where they sat in front of a computer screen all day and wrote reports and wondered if anyone ever read them.</p>

<p>If you are still enjoying the classes involved in your government major, then my suggestion would be to complete that major, take as many other things that pique your interest as you can fit in, and let the career plans fall into place. Be as aggressive as you can in meeting your professors, listening to what they do outside the lecture hall (a few will be writing a book on something cool, a few will be working as consultants to the central bank of Sweden on monetary policy or something like that, a few will be conducting a statistical study on the relationship between migration and GNP, one may be acting as policy advisor to a presidential candidate....) and I have no doubt that you will feel a lot better about your career options long term.</p>

<p>It is easy to think at 19 or 20 that the people running the world all knew what they wanted to do when they were young. Other than Queen Elizabeth and a few other monarchs, that is really not the case.</p>

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<p>I really liked that post, blossom. Thank you.</p>

<p>I'm feeling pressured to decide now so that I can change my fall course schedule accordingly, plan my next off term, and feel less guilty about wasting my parents' money, especially since my financial aid for sophomore year is terrible (we're filing an appeal). That, and I'll be $60,000 in debt out of undergrad (2-3% interest over 25 years, so ~$250 monthly payments) and I guess I'd like to have some plans for how I'm going to pay that off.

That seems fair enough. I definitely haven't eliminated this path, I'm just having some second thoughts.</p>

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<p>Hmmm. Smart girl, hates isolation and confrontation, prefers (people and) collaboration, wants to see results from her efforts, .... Clearly you need to get out of the office more! </p>

<p>I don't know where you'll find your passion, or when, but you need to be looking around a bit more 'cause you ain't finding it in your current position. Are there people at your think tank who have jobs you think you'd enjoy? Work your way toward them. Are there other think tanks in DC who have more collaborative environments than the one you're currently in? Try them. If all that fails, consider a completely different environment. A son of a friend tried sports management, and another tried amateur filmmaking. I myself spent three years at a specialized advertising firm. I didn't stick with it (long story) but those years were fun, fun, fun. And it scored about 98 on the collaborative scale. JMHO.</p>

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<p>Camelia, the tried and true path for Dartmouth grads who need to pay off debt quickly is either consulting or banking. So if your grades are good (GPA 3.5 ish and a math SAT over 720 or so) you've got that avenue to pursue if paying off the debt becomes the main concern by senior year. The banking sector is in big trouble now so my guess is that current seniors will be facing huge reductions in recruiting targets (i.e jobs will be hard to get) but things should turn around by the time you're a senior. Snag yourself an internship at a financial institution (even a menial one, not the high paying glamorous ones) for your term off and you'd be in good shape.</p>

<p>The typical Think Tank/journalism type job is going to pay 30K or so; the debt is do-able if you live with a bunch of roommates and learn to cook instead of eating out, forgo a car and gym membership etc. </p>

<p>Get yourself a job with one of the large consulting firms with a big government practice and you'll make twice that, plus they'll pay for grad school if you're a high performer and you agree to return.</p>

<p>So I think it's great you're thinking about the future- just don't box yourself in to an architecture major (a sub-optimal plan for someone with undergrad debt if there ever was one!) without seeing what next semester holds.</p>

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<p>Before you go and turn yourself into an architechture major, try to get an internship in that field, even if it's unpaid, and see if you like it. </p>

<p>I'd also recommend heading to D-mouth's career services office and seeing what services are offered there. I know my own alma mater maintains a list of alums who have registered as willing to talk to undergrads about their careers. If D-mouth does, you might make contact with some architechts and at least get some more concrete information. You may luck out and line up an internship. Additionally, at the very least, D-mouth may have various tests that are helpful in assessing your strengths and weaknesses. How's your spatial perception? Unfortunately, it's pretty bad for most females. (That may sound sexist, but it's true. Only 25% of females score in the top half of ALL people on spatial perception tests. )</p>

<p>In any event, see what services are available in the careers office. Take advantage of them and explore different options.</p>

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<p>Dartmouth doesn't have an architecture major; I would have to get a B.A. in something else and then apply for M.Arch programs. That's three years, followed by three years of internship before I can get licensed and start making money... by which time I'll be 27 years old and around $200,000 in debt, according to my estimates. I'd planned to talk to a close family friend, who has been a practicing architect for two decades, about this, and I probably will anyway, but it isn't an especially realistic option.

My GPA isn't quite 3.5 now (mono freshman fall wreaked havoc on my transcript) but it will be in another quarter or two, and certainly by graduation. I'm no math genius by any stretch of the imagination, but my SAT score was 760. Being the idealistic type, I actually hadn't considered that, but as financial damage control it does look like an appealing (though temporary!) option.</p>

<p>The latest idea is to go the corporate sellout route for two or three years, save all the money I can (as I'm relatively low-maintenance and an excellent cook, this shouldn't be too difficult), then get an MFA in graphic design and go wild. I'll keep you posted.</p>

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<p>"my best grades are in government, geography, and public policy"
Have you considered geography, especially cartography? Not so much writing involved but one can get quite creative in map making. You still need to spend long hours before a computer, but the results are of a graphic nature. Dartmouth has a geography major. Go and check out their mapping labs. Plus many geography related jobs involve lots of travel. Politics and geography are very intertwined. You might give it a try. Good Luck.
PS Son graduated as a geography major, so maybe I am a bit biased. He loved his classes and practically lived in the mapping lab. :D</p>

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<p>

I've never been tested; it would be interesting to know. I have a good sense of direction, if that counts for anything.

Both good ideas. I'll make sure to do that once I'm back on campus.</p>

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<p>(Is there financial aid for architecture grad school, by the way? Is there any way to make it work financially, or should I just dismiss it right away? I'd like to keep it as an option, because it is something that interests me, but if it's totally impossible I'd rather not dwell on it.)</p>

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<p>camelia, speaking congratulations, you've figured out what you don't like, that's great. I had a friend majoring in archeology who didn't figure out she hated working on digs until she was a senior. I'm so grateful that I realized I wasn't cut out to be an academic my freshman year. I felt silly basically majoring in art at Harvard, but it made me happy and it's led to a perfectly respectable career.</p>

<p>Speaking as an architect, yes architecture school is pretty brutal, but I loved every second of it. I'd taken lots of architectural history and I really care about buildings and how people live. I'm not convinced that's *your *passion, but you are right that seeing a finished product is part of the satisfaction of the job. I love chauffeuring my kid and his friends and pointing out all my jobs. I also love the variety of my job. Some days I'm sitting at my desk drawing, other days I'm out in the field looking at holes in the ground, or better yet, skeletons of things to come. Some days I'm talking to contractors other days to owners, other days to interior decorators. I can't speak to the financial aid question, but I can guarantee you that the physics and math required to apply to architecture school and the structures courses you'd take in grad school will pose no problem for you. </p>

<p>I had sort of an odd career path. A couple of years working, then off to Germany where I worked for five more years. I was never really an intern per se. I took the exam when I got back from Germany while I was briefly a SAHM. I had first baby at 33 second at 36. Took a year and a half off work completely then worked half time until I went off on my own when my youngest was six.</p>

<p>I think there may still be options for you within the field of international public service. Maybe something with more field work. Maybe something in publicity or design.</p>

<p>CTY at Johns Hopkins accepts kids based on a spatial perception test. I've looked at the sample problems and often wondered how I'd do. I did very well on similar but easier problems on a vocational aptitude test back in jr. high. I was always good at geometry and designing things with Legos.</p>

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<p>camelia, I wish we could sit down and talk. The first thing you need to do is not worry so much about your eventual career. Whatever you major in as an undergrad is just that -- whatever you majored in as an undergrad. You can go in all kinds of directions from a myriad of starting points. </p>

<p>As you may recall I live overseas and have been involved in international busienss my whole career. In my capacity as a manger I interact regularly with foreign service officers and a wide range of NGO employees. The variety of experience is vast and wide. The particular thinktank that you've hooked up with may be a good indication of what you can expect, or it may just be that that particular one is rather dry. There are plenty of NGO's and governmental agencies that deal with the arts -- maybe that's something to think about.</p>

<p>My son is an aspiring architect. (This is future tense; he plans to apply to an MArch program this year.) Try to take an architectural drawing course to see if it's for you. My son has wanted to be an architect his whole life and his job in the marketing department of an architectural firm has just reinforced his resolve. Yes, it is a long, long slog and Yes, the pay can be dismal, when compared to other professional careers, but architects tend to be happy with their life's work. As I understand it, funding is available for graduate programs. Pop over to the Architecture board for more advice.</p>

<p>International business is also a huge and varied arena -- consulting, finance, manufacturing, services, retail just to name a few. There is so much you could do with your background! A lot of these fields are also creative. You can look into ad agencies, public relations firms, apparel brands, retailers, art marketers for an idea of the kind of jobs that combine business acumen with creativity. Many large firms have internship programs. </p>

<p>The world of work is complex and unless they're professional (doctor, lawyer, Indian chief) people tend to fall into their careers or at least progress through internships, summer jobs, connections. </p>

<p>Relax, do well at school, and really get to know your college's career counseling office. They are there for you and will help you visualize some of the options.</p>