Carnegie Mellon or Cornell for Mathematics - Help Me Decide

College Search & Selection
1

I previously posted (http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/2183610-cornell-vs-carnegie-mellon-dual-enrollment-credit-transfer.html#latest) but I received word from both schools regarding their credit transfer policy, and so I now have more information and can write out a pros/cons list. I am seriously torn now and I would appreciate any additional input.

To recap: I have >100 credit hours from dual-enrollment (4.0 GPA) and I am firm in my decision to major in mathematics with a possible double major/minor in computer science. I have no interest to take any more miserable general education courses and I don’t think I’ll be able to mentally handle another four years of them. (Note: it’s not that I don’t care about any other subjects, it’s just I don’t care about them enough to take courses in them that actually require a significant time investment since they affect my GPA)

I received word from CMU and Cornell. It sounds like CMU is pretty open to the idea of allowing most of the credit to transfer, and they have reasonably low general education requirements to begin with. However, Cornell has basically come out and said, “Nope, none of your credits can be applied to the distribution requirements. Sorry. But you can use them to go into more advanced classes!” Haha.

Now to the pros and cons list, and the reason I’m torn:

Carnegie Mellon - Pros


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Will review my existing college credit to apply toward general education requirements
Has an accelerated honors Master’s/Bachelor’s combo degree for Mathematics
Might be able to graduate early if enough credits are transferred
Has top-tier computer science courses should I pursue a CS minor or, if possible, inter-school major

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Carnegie Mellon - Cons


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In Pittsburgh, and I’m not a huge fan of city life
Not Ivy League; not sure how that would impact my chances at my top Ph.D. program or job picks
Not as much financial aid on offer (leaves my family on the hook for roughly $17,000 per year) ---- but if I’m there for only three as opposed to four years due to credit transfer, this could possibly be a non-issue!
Possible regret for not going to Cornell, living in Ithaca, and getting the Ivy League benefits

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Cornell - Pros


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Ivy League prestige and connections
Possible to double major in Mathematics/Computer Science
I loved the campus and the atmosphere when I visited. As an ultrarunner, I especially loved the nearby trails
Greater financial aid package
I was accepted as a Rawlings Research Scholar

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Cornell - Cons


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Basically throwing away all the work I did for the past three years (including summer semesters), much of it to avoid general education requirements
No accelerated Master’s/Bachelor’s program, but there is ample opportunity for honors and graduate-level coursework
Slim chance to graduate early due to transfer credit not satisfying general education requirements
Uncertain about being able to balance honors/graduate-level math coursework, research for Rawlings, AND the god-forsaken general education requirements, while also pursuing personal and social goals
Possible regret for not going to CMU and being able to just focus on my major for the most part

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I hope someone can help me out here. It’s a real dilemma since I’m trying to balance my future prospects, my mental health, and my financial burden all at the same time, and there isn’t any clear winner when considering these factors.

2

I forgot to mention one other aspect of financial aid: Carnegie Mellon will count external scholarships toward the difference between the total cost of attendance (including room and board) and their financial aid award. On the other hand, from what I can tell based on Cornell’s website, they reduce aid dollar-per-dollar from external scholarships. Please correct me if I misunderstand the respective policies.

EDIT: Whoops, I just figured out how to edit posts. Sorry if this is spammy.

3

I believe Cornell is the same as CMU. Parents are still responsible for their EFC.

Per Cornell:
Outside scholarships or tuition benefits will reduce the starting loan and work component of a student’s financial aid package. These funds can also be used to replace Cornell’s standard student contribution. If all of the starting loan and work in your financial aid offer is canceled and your student contribution has been replaced, any remaining funds will reduce your Cornell Grant aid dollar for dollar.

4

Some of the most memorable courses I took at Cornell were general distribution courses for graduation. At its heart, Cornell has a strong liberal arts focus, regardless of major. IMO it’s one of the university’s strengths and shouldn’t put you off. It will broaden your horizons and is a big positive.

5

I don’t disagree that “broadening horizons” is beneficial. But my issue is taking full-fledged courses, complete with stressful and time-consuming assignments, on subjects that I only have a mild interest in. If I’m interested in something, or even if I just want to know more about it, I will read a book or watch some educational videos about the subject. Sure, I probably don’t get the same depth as if I had taken a full course, but I can expose myself to a lot of the same material, just without all the stress of deadlines, specific schedules, and GPA-affecting assignments and exams. I have found that a lot of what I remember from subjects outside of mathematics are things which I read about on my own because I was curious to learn more.

With the college credit I’ve earned, I could have graduated with a Bachelor’s degree from the local college I attended, but I wanted to get experience with honors/graduate-level mathematics coursework before earning my degree. During these past few years, I can’t tell you how many times I’ve gotten the motivation to research something related to my mathematics courses on my own, or develop a related project, but just didn’t have the time because I had a five-page philosophy paper due in a few days, or a presentation to put together for US history, or something along those lines. I’ve also had the pleasure of signing up for courses which sounded interesting but ended up being mind-numbingly boring.

It has been an incredibly frustrating and depressing two or three years (not just because of the general education courses, but that’s besides the point) and I’ve been counting down the days until I can finally just focus on developing my true interests to the furthest extent possible. The past few years I’ve spent probably ten times the amount of time and energy working on general education courses than I have mathematics, primarily because mathematics comes naturally to me so I hardly ever needed to study, and because I enjoyed doing the assignments. I was always excited to go to the math lectures and I didn’t need to force myself to do any of the projects. On the other hand, the general education courses—even the more engaging ones—have been a chore, particularly the ones which involved lots of writing. I am an uber-perfectionist, and it sometimes takes me hours to write a single paragraph.

But at the same time, I loved a lot about my visit to Cornell that it does make my decision difficult. I did like Carnegie Mellon’s campus, but again, I am not a huge fan of city life so the area isn’t a perfect fit for me. I also realize that, as an Ivy League school, Cornell could potentially improve my future prospects. What I don’t know is whether my opportunities will be greater attending an Ivy League or completing Carnegie Mellon’s accelerated Master’s/Bachelor’s program, which might take only 3 years to complete depending on credit transfer. I do hope to pursue a Ph.D. in Mathematics at some point, but I do not know if I want to immediately following my undergraduate degree; I may enter the workforce for a bit first.

6

Voting for CMU for you. In spite of the Ivy thing, everyone knows CMU is a STEM powerhouse.

1 Like
7

Be aware that it is difficult to change into the CS major at CMU (3.6 CS course GPA and 3.0 overall GPA needed to apply into competitive admission: https://csd.cs.cmu.edu/guidelines-transfer-dual-degree-minor-and-additional-major-cs ). Getting into the CS minor is less difficult. You may want to ask directly how difficult it is to get into lower level CS courses as a non-CS major/minor and upper level CS courses as a CS minor.

Yes, Cornell has a fairly common policy of replacing student loan and student work earnings first (reducing effective net price), but then reducing grants before reducing parent contribution. (reference: https://finaid.cornell.edu/types-aid/grants-and-scholarships/outside-scholarships )

For comparison, CMU’s policy on outside scholarships appears to be more generous: https://www.cmu.edu/sfs/financial-aid/types/scholarships-and-grants/outside.html .

8

Cornell has a very strong math program. CMU has a very strong CS program. If you want to do PhD in math, you don’t need a master’s degree. I would go with Cornell if you plan to work in mathematics and CMU for working in the industry.

9

I kind of expected this answer. I am not set on one path or the other, which makes it difficult. I would be interested to research mathematics, but I do not come from a wealthy background and I would be worried about financial security. Besides, there are lots of professions heavy in mathematics that strike me as interesting.

There’s another factor I realized I should consider: hidden costs and inconveniences. Apparently practically everything outside of tuition and standard living expenses has additional associated fees at Cornell. Bus passes, gym memberships, opting out of the university healthcare, etc. all cost more money. Carnegie Mellon seems to bake all of that into the standard expenses to begin with.

Other than that, Cornell is tucked away from everything. As a runner, that is the kind of environment I enjoy. The problem is that I’ve been pretty isolated from having to run errands since my mom does all that. So it might turn out incredibly inconvenient that if I need to go to the store, I have to get on a bus for a 30-minute ride to the nearest shopping center.

From the post and my comments, it seems like I lean toward CMU. I promise you, though, that I am still right on the fence. My opinion changes every hour or so.

10

CMU is the better option for you.

11

How does net price compare, after accounting for their policies on outside scholarships that you have?

12

I have a relative who is a runner and was quite interested in Cornell too.
Two things I would point out, which you are undoubtedly aware of:

  1. A lot of the area is very hilly. And I mean major-league hills, in some cases.
  2. A chunk of the school year the weather is not great and it may be difficult to run outside.

By general academic reputation I don’t think there’s so much to distinguish either way, to drive a decision by itself.

You seem to be well aware of the programs and the differences, in settings, credits, etc.

It’s always tough to decide when you have two good choices. One just does it, and hopes for the best. Do everything you can then to make it the right choice.

Let us know what you decide.

13

For Cornell:
It’s only about a 10 minute bus ride from North Campus (where freshmen live) to Tops/Target. Not a half hour.

Bus passes are included freshman year. Bus rides are free certain times/days so you can decide in subsequent years whether it’s worthwhile to purchase the bus pass or not.

It doesn’t cost anything to opt out of the healthcare? If your current healthcare isn’t adequate for the region, you may have to purchase the student health insurance. Everyone pays some for access to the student health services though. (We actually found that part a good deal, we have health insurance and opted out of the student health insurance but when our daughter got sick last fall, she only paid $10 for the visit that included diagnosing her with a sinus infection, antibiotic and a follow up visit to make sure she was better. Our own doctor cost would have been $80+ just for the initial visit)

14

re#12, I actually don’t recall ever riding the Ithaca bus system. Though I guess I must have.
Freshman year everyone is on the meal plan, so certainly no food shopping required. There were some places to buy “stuff” on campus or Collegetown for some basic needs, eg the campus store, I assume that is still the case. For anything else, after freshman year there was never a time I can recall where I didn’t know somebody who had a car.

15

So which school did you end up with? I am just wondering.

1 Like
16

MIT, Caltech, and Stanford join CMU in being “not Ivy League”. Do you really think membership in an athletic conference will significantly impact your PhD program/job prospects?

(Edit - Gack, another necropost).