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there is TREMENDOUS value in the underlying information, be it in the forms of detailed numbers in the USNews, direct quotations by students at Pr0wler or Princeton Review, ultra-biased reviews in ISI's or Pope's books, and the list goes on
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And that's really the point, and the problem I have with CC shilling for College Pr0wler -- and btw it seems truly ludicrous for CC to still auto-edit out the name of a company that they have obviously jumped into bed with. And I STILL would like to know what financial arrangements have been reached between CC and Pr0wler -- how much $ is CC getting for promoting Pr0wlers publication. </p>
<p>But I digress. The information itself might indeed be useful. Maybe very useful. But CC has chosen not to provide that information. What they provide is a "grade" that has no meaning outside of its context. If you want to get the actual useful information, you gotta pay for it. So for the OP to opine that "this may be one of the most accurate rankings out there, second only perhaps, to US News. Congrats to CC for making it available" is kind of silly. There is NO value to the "ranking" part of this exercise.</p>
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So how are you to compare across schools that are different in many ways?
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<p>Barrons, aren't we making the same point but approaching the issue from a different angle. My point is that all the INDIVIDUAL anecdotes or data points are valid --albeit in different degrees-- but that the conclusions that lead to a final ranking are not valid. Not different from using the GPA among HS in the country to determine which ones are good or not. </p>
<p>I did not find how they set up the survey for each school. The tiny link at the bottom of the front page seems to show they do not go and visit a school and set up a well designed survey. It reads as if they just hire a student writer who gathers some quotes and writes what his/her own opinions are about the school.
I would LOVE to find out more about student opinions at colleges but not sure what is valid. Found another site with ratings where as few as 4 or 5 kids went online and filled out the info.</p>
<p>Xiggi, I actually don't have a problem with the College Pr0wler books. They are what they are, and, as a datapoint, they can give you an idea of some good questions for follow up, just as other "opinion" sources can.</p>
<p>On the other hand, I do think it is somewhat irresponsible for CC to take the "Grades" from the Pr0wler books, which are mainly the opinions of one student (and in some cases no longer a current student) and present them as some sort of official ranking or in the very least a comparison of different schools. </p>
<p>OldinJersey, each the College Pr0wler books are written by a student at the college. It is my understanding that the student/author is free to "survey" whoever they want about the school, and I suspect in many cases that means they talk to a couple of friends to get a few quotes that agree with their own opinion/experience with the school. The student/author then "Grades" the school on the various criteria and writes the profile using quotes from those interviewed along with a heavy dose of personal opinion. The student/author is paid for the work. As I said above, and I think Xiggi is also saying, the books can be interesting datapoints, just as asking the kid down the street who attends school XYZ what he or she thinks can be, but the opinions expressed should probably be taken with a big grain of salt and no school should be ruled in or out just because of any comment or "grade" made in them. I think the same can be said for books like Princeton Review and sites like Students Review that also provide snapshots of the individual opinions of selected students.</p>
<p>But, in no way are these "rankings" or even reliable "comparisons" between schools. I do wish that CC had made good on its promise to clearly explain that on the "ranking" page.</p>
<p>This chart was impossible to read...the listings were at the top and bottom but the list was too long to read them for those with schools in the middle of the alphabet. Who did these "ratings". I'm guessing the students. </p>
<p>One thing I found interesting...at DD's U (I think I was looking at the right column....) Greek life was rate B- (keep in mind no Greeks on campus and less than 3% of student body in Greek groups), but nightlife was rated a D (it's an urban area...for heaven's sake, there IS a night life...or are they saying "on campus" nightlife). Also their on campus housing is rated B- and truthfully is amongst the nicest we saw at 20 something colleges we visited.</p>
<p>I come down on the side that says more information is better and the more transparent the better. My consistent suggestion is use things like USNWR's objective data as a way to do some initial screening and narrow your list down into schools that meet your interests and for which you are arguably competitive as an applicant. Don't accept any ranking at face value-use them only as a starting point and then do your own discovery. </p>
<p>The next step is the investigation and sources like the College Pr0wler can provide a lot of background. As thumper points out above, don't accept the information as gospel (these are mostly opinions after all), but use the information as spurs to dig deeper and learn more about a school. The beauty of Pr0wler is that it lays out many areas of comparison and thus suggests a framework that an individual student can adopt in his/her own search. With this approach and making your own inquiries either via school visits, internet discovery, interactions with school administrators and/or alumni, etc, the high school student and his/her family will be able to make an informed judgment.</p>
<p>[*ollege Pr0wler can provide a lot of background. As thumper points out above, don't accept the information as gospel *</p>
<p>Yes- I remember last year- I think it was when one particulary annoying student at Ds college, was recruiting people on LJ to try and get them to submit reviews/buy a guide for ollege******- they scorned him and he made fun of them because he was getting money for it- however- that made them even more "superior".
I had the impression that he thought that it would make Reed more "prestigous" and he didn't really * get Reed.
He also was I think a freshman- and so knew nothing about * OldeReed* ;)</p>
<p>Which Survey/Ranking Deserves More Attention Regarding the Merits of a College?</p>
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<p>Cstix,
The answer to your question is "a survey conducted in a statistical reliable and scientific manner."</p>
<p>Neither the Princeton Review or College Pr0wler do either. And, the "results" of both surveys are easily manipulated (and, indeed, HAVE been manipulated in some cases) to show the "results" the individual conducting the survey or the "results" the institution wants to convey.</p>
<p>While I don't agree with all of the methodology of the US News & World Report ranking system, at least the methodology is mainly unbiased and is applied consistently across all categories of schools (although even then, some institutions clearly still can manipulate numbers in their favor).</p>
<p>Again, I have no problem with either the PR or the CP guidebooks - they can be useful data points. But their "Grades" and"rankings" are not statistically reliable or unbiased in any way shape or form, and therefore can not be considered true rankings based on comparisons between schools based quantifiable data. They are subjective personal opinion, period. Again, a datapoint, but so is asking the kid down the street who goes to the school. Useful to some extent but ripe with individual bias that may or may not match your experience.</p>
<p>In terms of a survey of current college students - I do think there is value in surveying current students in a consistent and statistically reliable method. If the consistent and statisically reliable method is used at various institutions, it can then be used to make broader comparisons between institutions. One such survey that I find very useful in comparing colleges is the National Survey of STudent Engagement (NSSE). It asks the same questions about academic experience of a statistical sample of students at each school. Unfortunately, only a very small percentage of the 700+ schools that conduct NSSE surveys each year actually share the results with prospective students.</p>
<p>To add to Carolyns always well thought out comments :)
I would add that while College PRO*WLER charges $17 to read opinions of students- I have found that Student</a> Review to reflect my general impressions of schools that I am familiar with and it is free- a very good price ;)</p>
<p>Not to mention- that while to get a guide for one school from CP is $17, that is about the same price as it costs to subscribe to the USNEWS website- and gain access to virtually all the colleges with a ton of info.</p>
<p>I don't use USNEWS "tier" rankings - as I think it is misleading to manipulate info so that each year it "shifts" just a bit, but when you develop your own criteria, it is a good source of information</p>
<p>I also would like to add that the "rankings" can only give you so much information. The bottom line is that students need to see these schools for themselves. A school with a D in "nightlife" have just the social events that some students are looking for. What some view as a great "campus", others would bristle at. And re: academics...I'm not sure how this is rated. The reality is that there are departments in every school that are better than others...and some that are crummy almost everywhere. An outstanding course of study in the student's areas of interest matter.</p>