If I remember, OP posted prestige being a large factor in their decision, which (while not a great reason) pretty much eliminates most LAC’s.
Most people are not familiar w LACs. I think a key reason for that is that they don’t produce research that makes it into the news that people read…
But LACs DO put out some fine folks who go on to continue research as they move on from undergrad school. It’s all about connections.
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Wow that would be news to Williams, Amherst, Bowdoin, Vassar, Swarthmore, Pomona . . . I could go on. There’s plenty of prestige at LACs! Good lord.
(Not weighing in on the research question)
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But what the general public may or may not know about LACs doesn’t matter. If a student is going to have a career in research, they are headed to grad schools. The best grad schools in the country know that the best LACs produce phenomenal students. Just look at where graduates from Williams, Bowdoin, Pomona, etc. end up for medical school and grad schools. If you graduate as a strong student from one of the country’s best LACs, you have your pick of the best professional and graduate programs in the country.
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The idea that LACs can’t produce MD/PhD candidates is a fallacy. More might come from major Research Us since they attract more students to begin with, but it’s not a “must.”
When my guy was an undergrad I recall reading about one of U Rochester’s MD/PhD current students in their magazine as he had just won some prestigious award. He came from Hope College. I remember it because I didn’t really know much about Hope College (odd name, no?). I just googled Hope and came up with this page:
"The award will support LaFrenier, who is majoring in neuroscience, as she conducts collaborative research with Dr. Phillip Rivera, assistant professor of biology. She will work full-time with Rivera for 10 weeks during each of the next two summers and part-time during the academic year in between.
Hope is the only college or university in the nation to have had an active award from the foundation since the grant program began in 1998, and was one of only 12 to receive new awards earlier this year. The college’s latest award will support a total of four students across the next three years as they conduct research collaboratively with faculty mentors."
…
“Since the program began, Hope has named 31 students as Beckman Scholars including LaFrenier. The recipients have subsequently received a variety of major external honors through the years, including Goldwater Scholarships and Honorable Mentions; Department of Defense National Defense Science and Engineering Graduate Fellowships; and National Science Foundation Graduate Research Fellowships. A total of 19 have continued to graduate school, five to medical school and three to MD/Ph.D. programs.”
If small, relatively unknown Hope College (approx 3000 students, private, Christian LAC) can do such things, I’m pretty sure other LACs can too.
Students should choose their own fit. Many will want research universities if interested in research, but if someone prefers an LAC (many do), just check into the research available, what their recent grads have done, and choose where you prefer to study. Doors certainly aren’t closed!
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Return the focus to the OP instead of debating amongst yourselves on the topic of research and LACs. The point of the thread is to help the student, not to become the next Lincoln-Douglas debate
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See the moderator note above. Debates are against Forum Rules. Posts deleted.
And please stay on topic.
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Until I hear that your family is good with paying $800k for your education, I’d be looking for really strong institutions where merit is a possibility (even if a very slim possibility).
I stand by my recs from earlier, but would add in places like:
Rice
Vanderbilt
Washington U.
U. of Southern California
Carnegie Mellon
Duke
John’s Hopkins
Swarthmore
There are no guarantees you would even be admitted to these schools. But, if you were to be admitted, I suspect you might be considered for some of their merit aid. And saving $100k to $400k is absolutely nothing to sneeze at, and these are very strong universities.
Some places that offer both cognitive science and neuroscience majors that I think would be even more likely to give you some nice merit aid are:
Vassar
U. of Evansville
Scripps
Pitzer
UT-Dallas
U. of Delaware*
Lehigh
Claremont McKenna
Rensselaer Polytechnic
Case Western*
NYU
Indiana U.
I know you’re not merit hunting, but I’d take a good look at these schools. If there are some on here that excite you and you like the course offerings and programs and research opportunities, then I would give most of these the go-ahead over schools that don’t offer merit aid. You’re an incredible candidate and I think you should at least look to see what kind of opportunities appear for you that accompany some significant merit aid.
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Have you worked/volunteered in a hospital or other patient care setting? How do you know you want to be a doc? Didn’t see this in your EC list.
My wife is an MD who went to a very highly regarded med school. We have discussed college issues ad nauseam, as we have one kid headed the medical route. Our general agreement, and the opinion of many of our friends who are MD’s, is medical schools don’t care much where you went to undergraduate, they do care about how well you did, your MCAT score, and proof that you know why you want to be a doc (this is particularly important). So I wouldn’t stress about it.
If you have a teaching hospital close to you, I’d try to get a connection there. I’m sure lots of residents could give you some great advice on colleges, majors etc.
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To the OP, without this, I believe it’s impossible to get accepted into a BS/MD program, though others can chime in if they have seen students do it. I haven’t.
Otherwise, @ipw20x is totally correct with what med schools are looking for. Here’s U Rochester’s profile - google other years if you want to. It’s a template. They tend to look for the same thing year after year. It’s likely similar to what most other med schools are looking for (though some don’t care as much about research).
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This supports what I posted earlier: that you can major in any area and still go to med school (as long as prereq’s are covered during college or in a post-bacc). The emphasis in URMC’s profile seems to be on service and advocacy. (I also noted many have been EMT’s)
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I don’t recommend BS/MD programs. It’s literally a gamble. Only a small fraction of “premed freshmen” actually go to medical school because they find passions in other areas. You don’t want to lock yourself in a profession prematurely and find out you hate it.
Also, why this push for prestige? Can you afford these schools?
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cost isn’t a factor. i’m fine with not going to a bs/md - it was just an idea (and volunteering’s been pretty difficult because of covid, so no, i don’t have any hours)
i don’t think most people who value prestige can explain it, but it’d be nice to see all my work coming to fruition? - coming from a rural area, i’d just really like a change of scenery where 99.99% peers are ambitious/driven/like-minded (i know this exists at every school, but i’d rather it be the plurality). i’d be happy at my state flagship too, though, so i’m not “hypsm-or-bust”. but i’d like to enjoy my undergrad rather than choosing a place just to game med-school admissions
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I still think Pitt will make a nice safety if you like it - then apply where you like, but look into each school because they aren’t all the same. Many choices can give you the prestige you’d like. Find your fit. You don’t “just” want prestige. You want prestige and somewhere that fits you. There’s nothing at all wrong with that. All of our top students find some schools they like and others they don’t among the top of the lists. Only apply to those you like.
I’d still look into U Rochester too. The research culture there makes it easy for like-minded peers to fit in. If you can, visit it. Students who have come back knowing whether it’s right for them or not. Fortunately it’s about 15 minutes from the airport.
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You’re not going to ‘game’ the med-school admissions no matter where you go to college.
Have you considered the UC system?
OP is in the south, so paying out-of-state prices for the UCs wouldn’t be that much different than the prices for the privates she’s looking at.
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Cost is no issue. UC’s are great places for pre-med.
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Why ‘as long as you don’t plan to apply to med school in CA’?