Chance an aid-seeking Irish kid for his US dream (1580 SAT)

Chance Me / Match Me!
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I am applying for financial aid wherever I am applying! Realistically can’t attend if it’s any more than 8k per year after aid (and that’s pushing it).

Demographics: Male, Caucasian, Irish (no US citizenship), normal smallish public school, middle class (90k per year but with 6 dependants)

Intended major: Psychology

SAT: 1580 (790 + 790)

GPA and Rank: Because I’m international, my school doesn’t rank or provide GPA. I take the most rigourous classes possible (8 Honours courses) and am getting about 5 x 95%, 2 x 85% and around 88% in applied mathematics (sorry if this doesn’t help much! the GPA issue is one of the main reasons I need a chance me in the first place!). My school doesn’t offer IB, AP etc.

Coursework:

Honours English, Honours Irish, Honours Maths, Honours French, Honours History, Honours Geography, Honours Music, Honours Applied Mathematics

Extracurriculars:

  1. University of Notre Dame Leadership Seminars (11) - Attended Leadership Seminars “State of Race” this summer. All-expenses paid summer course for 1.5 weeks, not just a ■■■■■■ “pay us loads of money to say you did a course here” type of program. 120 admitted students out of over 1000 applications.

  2. National science fair (10,11) - Designed Python program and entered the largest science fair in Ireland, got 2 awards including an award for excellence in research.

  3. School Prefect (12) - One of 10 students chosen as prefects (out of 120). responsibilities include interacting with the public, minding the 8th graders, working with staff and management etc.

  4. Fundraising for charity (10,11) - Organised a fundraising event for a school in Zambia, raised $16000

  5. School trad music band leader (8 - 12) - Member of school trad irish music band for 6 years, lead fiddle with solos, played at all major school events for 6 years. Leader of band this year.

  6. Center for Talented Youth (2nd grade - 11th) - Member of a “Talented Youth” organisation (I know…) since the age of 6, many summer courses such as compsci, neuroscience, game design etc. Took part in a Dual Enrollment with Dublin City University (Early University Program) through CTY throughout 10th grade in Psychology (related to preferred major).

  7. School Culture Club (12) - Founded the culture club in school (I know it’s really common to do this sort of throwaway club in the US but I think it’s the only student-run club in my entire school). Meet weekly and hold workshops with younger students.

  8. Local Orchestra Volunteering(4th grade - 12th) - Volunteered at a local youth orchestra for 8 years. I organise funding, plan & promote concerts,. I created a COVID letterwriting scheme & concert for 2 local nursing homes and the youth orchestra with 540 cards sent.

  9. Theater (10) - I had a lead role in a school musical. By this point I think AOs have stopped caring about the ECs but oh well.

  10. Work (Paid) (11,12) - I work at a local shop every Saturday 9-5.

Awards:

  1. Won two national awards in the largest science fair in the country, including a special award for excellence in research (1 out of 550 projects). Project was a Python program to write music, and we then conducted a Turing Test with 300 people.
  2. Center for Talented Youth Early University Entrance Program; Psychology - 1st Class Honours (x4)
  3. School Academic Honours for the top 10% of the class x4.
  4. Idk if Leadership Seminars counts as an award but I’m including it here

Essays/LORs:

Cousellor LOR: probably 5/10. Nothing terrible but he doesnt know me very well and also this is the first LOR he’s ever written for a US college. Sort of closer to a breakdown of how I’ve interacted with the school.

Teacher LORs: Both are very good. 8/10. They both like me a lot and I’ve known both for 6 years.

Psychology Professor LOR: from my Dublin City University dual enrollment. 8/10. Glowing, says I’m best in class and a leader.

Schools (feel free to chance me for all of these if you’d like):

I’m currently applying to Notre Dame (I’ve already done their selective summer course), Dartmouth, Duke, Macalester (because they waived my application fee so why not), Swarthmore

Also Harvard & Yale but only for the sake of putting my name in the hat. :slight_smile:

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You are applying for 2022 entry, yes? what are your predicted LC results? (& are you happier that it is going back to the old system or were you hoping for another hybrid year?) what school are you in?

The bummer on ND is that the summer program has a pretty good correlation rate for offers- but ND is need-aware for international students. Macalaster was a good call- great urban school with more of an international focus than most US schools.

But: the Venn diagram of Macalaster, Dartmouth and Swat students is pretty close to a null set. Not sure why you applied to both Dartmouth and Swarthmore- they are like matter & anti-matter, and Macalaster is completely different than either of them. I really struggle to think of a student who would be happy at all three places.

Dartmouth, Duke, H&Y are all lottery tickets for international students.

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And do you have a backup plan if you don’t get accepted at these schools (or if the finances don’t work out)? Are you applying to additional US schools you haven’t listed or do you have schools you can go to in Ireland?

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Applications are all in for 2022! The waiting is just killing me slowly…

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If the US fails (as I’m worried it might), I’m in the highly privileged position of being surrounded by many great schools here. It’s not the be all and end all as it is for certain other internationals. I’m in a good space so 7 rejections won’t cripple me.

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Agreed. That’s what I was going to say too.
Perhaps a slightly better chance at Dartmouth but the other three are high reaches.

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True- I know a student from Cork who is a 2nd year at Dartmouth- so they know the points system anyway!

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I think you have an interesting profile and will probably be admitted to Notre Dame and Macalester and perhaps more on your list.

Whether you will get the aid you need is less likely. Because of your connection to Notre Dame, I think that will help in getting you one of their rare merit scholarships for international students.

If the money does not come through, I do think you could try again in another admissions cycle, targeting schools that are generous with aid to international students.

See Top Colleges That Are Generous To International Students

Also, if you do apply again in a future admissions year, I think you would be a good candidate for the highly competitive Stamps Scholarship at the colleges where international students are eligible to apply (you’d have to check each school on the list): https://www.stampsscholars.org/our-program/criteria-and-eligibility/#:~:text=The%20Stamps%20Scholars%20Program%2C%20with,leadership%20potential%2C%20and%20exceptional%20character.&text=At%20some%20of%20our%20partner,eligible%20for%20the%20Stamps%20Scholarship.

Or get a degree from a school near you, then apply in the US for graduate school, which might provide more funding opportunities (fellowships, research positions, etc.).

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Estimated LC is 601… going for Trinity Psych if US doesn’t work out. Would’ve loved accredited grades so much - would’ve gotten 615 if my app. maths teacher was feeling kind. If only… Realistically though I think it’s definitely fairer this way, predicted just would’ve suited me.

Gonna keep my school & county private but it’s just a totally normal public one.

As for school selection - Dartmouth and Swat both suit me very well in very different ways. The academic, nerdy vibe Swat has going on is totally my thing (I think this was my best “Why us” essay I wrote), but Dartmouth’s location is where I’d like to live out the rest of my life. Mac, on the other hand, was because of a fee waiver + promising international focus. I still would attend if I got in, don’t get me wrong, and I think I’d enjoy it there too.

What experience have you with the Irish system out of interest?

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This is great - thanks for the thorough reply. I’ve been to a few ND info sessions here and it’s clear they are currently really pushing to get Irish kids in (or at least applying). Their Irish numbers have been slowly increasing from 1-2 in 2000 up to 15 last year. So I’m hoping, even if they give me poor aid at first, I can liaise with them to try get a better deal.

If I get turned down everywhere I’m going to go to TCD/DCU (depends on points), probably will leave the US dream for a few years at least. But grad school there in Psych is also really enticing me.

As for Stamps, I had a long chat about this with an ND alum. They give their Stamps scholarships without additional application so I’m in the running for it this year apparently. Will definitely keep it in mind for if I’m applying again a different year though, maybe focus on those schools more.

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Across the family we cover pretty much the full range: Collegedad (born & raised in SoCoD) was in it all the way through; the Collegekids were in the Irish school system for a good chunk of primary & secondary (& did CTYI); I did a PG degree (UCD) and taught at TCD. Have friends whose kids are in 5th & 6th Year this year (and last year!) Lots of angst.

You should have the points to be credible for Oxford- did you consider that as an option?

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Oh wow - more experience than I was expecting from here. I was fully expecting to be explaining the Leaving Cert to people, that’s great! Do you live/holiday here now? I’m intrigued now. Also, considering you taught there - opinions on TCD psychology? Or if you have more experience in it, thoughts on CompSci there vs other Unis? That’s the other option of degree for me.

Oxford came… and went. I did a few practice tests of their reasoning exam(?) for Psychology, and did pretty great in them actually (the style of question suited me a lot). I ultimately decided against applying because I thought I could have a good chance with acceptance from teacher predictions (as they request initially), but if I received a conditional acceptance and then all the pressure was on me to get 4/5/6 H1s, I know my mental health would’ve really taken a hit. I do think I’ll do well in the LC, but I would become far too stressed if I knew everything lay on a certain result. Mental Health > University Choice for me. Still happy with my decision.

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Dartmouth went need-blind for ints this year (after I had applied, just sheer chance!) so I was really hoping I had a huge bit of good luck there. H,Y and Duke were just a “can’t win if you’re not in” but I’ve gotten my hopes up too high for Dart.

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they are justifiably proud of their program! both students & faculty can get a little peeved when people think that it’s an ‘easy’ course.

Re: CompSci I am not impartial- I was part of a cross-department team with them on a SFI project and loved working with them! Some really strong, invested and imaginative profs in that dept.

Good call on the mental health part: Oxford is a fantastic experience- if it it’s a good fit for you. A lot of people (esp in the UK and Ireland, where ‘fit’ is not as much of a concept as it is in the US) think it’s about relative degrees of ‘smart’, but it really is more about fit.

I had missed that ND went need-blind this year, which improves your odds there materially.

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You certainly are the epitome of the Fighting Irish.

No other advice to offer except to wish you good luck. Hope ND comes through for you!

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“So I’m hoping, even if they give me poor aid at first, I can liaise with them to try get a better deal.”

Financial aid offices, at most US universities, don’t work that way. They budget the financial aid packages over the course of four years given expected rises in tuition. The universities have limited financial aid budgets. In other words, the funding dollars are finite. You get what you get from the initial offering. You can’t “bargain” your way to a better deal in subsequent years. Every student would be doing that every year who needed better financial aid.

If your your family income changes significantly, then you would have to provide written documentation of those changes and they might adjust the aid but that’s not guaranteed.

Wherever you get in, with aid, then you should assume that that’s the aid that you will get for the remainder of the undergraduate education.

Go in with the understanding that you may or may not get sufficient financial aid for certain schools. Every school is very different which is what attracts so many students to US colleges and universities.

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This is so true! The accepted student will get a financial aid offer, and that is pretty much it. And, if you are offered a combination of merit + need-based aid, the need-based aid will reflect the merit aid. You should try running the NPC on the website to see how it looks, though they are typically less accurate for international students than domestic students.

One of the hardest things we see on CC every spring is the students who get into a school they love but then can’t afford, b/c the colleges estimate of what the family needs in the way of financial aid is different than what the family feels they can afford.

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I assumed the OP meant he would try to negotiate a better financial aid package before acceptance — not for subsequent years.

And that is possible to do, even if the odds of success are not great.

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Thanks for your insights - really valuable. Trinity psychology is the top choice at the moment :slight_smile:.

This is lovely sgopal! Thank you so much for your well wishes :blush:. I’ll certainly fill this thread in with results come April.

Exactly this. I’ve heard that once you receive your financial aid offer, you can get back to them and explain why you can’t afford it etc. if you are unhappy. I’m under no illusion of this process being simple that’s for sure :crossed_fingers:.

Thanks for all your help to everyone here. Here’s hoping :).

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Yep, the worst thing that would happen is the school would say no to a request for more financial aid. But if one doesn’t even ask, then it would be a definite no.