<p>All top tier colleges also mail their application forms to unqualified students – that is, people with sub-2200 SAT’s, sub-3.67 GPA’s, sub-par EC’s, etc. Those students make a substantial portion of the applicant pool. When you take those students out of the equation, and you consider the laudable accomplishments of the OP, he has closer to a 15% chance at some, 20% at others, maybe even 10% at a few, but not sub-10.</p>
<p>OP has an “anti-hook”. He’s an Asian robot (piano-playing, science/math geek, AP machine, etc.). He’s fighting it out for a limited number of slots reserved for the Asian robot group.</p>
<p>"It’s possible that Henry Park looked like a thousand other Korean kids with the exact same profile of grades and activities and temperament. [I could] understand why a university would take a celebrity child, legacy, or development admit over yet another textureless math grind.</p>
<ul>
<li>Marilee Jones, ex-MIT Admissions Director on why a Korean-American applicant to Ivy League schools was rejected in favor of less qualified white students</li>
</ul>
<p>I like your analysis jameschen.</p>
<p>The person who I know who is going to princeton is an asian girl. SUper intellegent. 2300+ on SAT and probably 780+ on all three SAT II’s. She is a national merit, national AP, scholar. She won 2nd place at and international math project compeition in CHina, she did all the econ competitions that I did. Etc .etc. </p>
<p>Caltech was another asian girl. Brilliant in math, and did the same math comp in china with the princeton girl. </p>
<p>The other princeton person is a white male. His both parents were princeton alumni, so it might be a legacy thing because he isn’t that brilliant. </p>
<p>Johns Hopkins is a asian male who was the last team member for that international math comp in china I mentioned before.</p>
<p>This thread makes me sick.</p>
<p>How come no one has mentioned the fact that this kid is talking about applying to teh Ivy Leagues like they’re all the same!!</p>
<p>Find the schools you really like and apply to them, not just because of the name, but because you want to be at that certain school. </p>
<p>And your essays will matter the most!</p>
<p>Obstinate,</p>
<p>Haha, no they are not all the same. But when it comes to analyzing acceptance, everything DOES seem the same. SATs, EC’s, those are all the same. Face it, college may offer different specialties, but the requirements for getting INTO them is very similar. </p>
<p>I wanna major in either Economics or Engineering. Which makes me want schools liek MIT and caltech, AS WELL AS Most of the top Ivies, which have great econ programs</p>
<p>Djokovic:</p>
<p>Bingo! College admissions does not happen in a vacuum. It’s all about class context.</p>
<p>Asian girl going to Princeton (call her Jane) was no doubt helped by white legacy boy (call him Dick). By accepting Dick, it would have looked really bad if they rejected Jane because Jane is totally superior to Dick. So Princeton had little choice but to take Dick and Jane as a package. File this one under: “Frist Effect with Asian Flavor”.</p>
<p>This scenario is most likely to occur in the “Suburban Refuge” type high school–one that is mostly white, upper-class, and reasonably high-achieving. So from an Asian point-of-view, going to a “Suburban Refuge” is best for getting into top colleges.</p>
<p>On the other hand, CalTech is a pure meritocracy. No legacy, alumni, female, developmental, faculty or URM hooks at all. So don’t use this as anything else but an unbiased benchmark for CalTech admissions.</p>
<p>Bottom line: Class context needs to be part of your admissions strategy. And be realistic about your chances for admission as an unhooked, Asian male.</p>
<p>Dang thats an insane about of weighted classes…I think you have a great shot with your strong ECs.</p>
<p>I wish to point out the following that I’ve learned about college admissions:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Its not random - If you’re rejected, there’s a better explanation than “the admissions officer felt grumpy that morning”. For many Asian students, it’s “I’ve seen too many with that profile before.”</p></li>
<li><p>Theres a reason for everything that happens - College admissions decisions are made in context: class , so-called diversity goals, quotas, departmental needs, etc. Where do you fit in the school’s Class of 2014? Joe the Econ Whiz? Jane the Super Math Geek? Dick the Double Legacy?</p></li>
<li><p>The better informed you are, the more likely you are to get what you want - Understanding what you are up against is the first step to admission to the schools of your choice.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>If you honestly think your chances of getting into Princeton as an unhooked, Asian male are 30%, then your real chances of getting in are well under the averages (9.5% in 2009). Why? Because you put in an effort thinking that you have a greater shot of getting in than you really have.</p>
<p>For example, if you really have a 30% chance of getting into HYPSM (individually), then it makes no sense to apply to Penn, Cornell, NW and others, since your odds of getting into at least one of HYPSM are 1-(1-.3)**5 = 83% But if you really know the odds of getting in, then you’ll not only apply to more schools, but also work harder on your application essays, raising your scores and improving your essays.</p>
<p>Off soapbox.</p>
<p>Just a side question: Should you write every EC that you do in HS?</p>
<p>Common app has space for 7 activities. Remaining activities, awards, etc can be placed in the “other information” attachment.</p>
<p>You need to soul search and research. Prioritize your goals and interests and determine a fit with the schools you are applying to. You need to be more than academically and xtrac fit; those are just the foundations; you need to show fit into a specific program at the schools you are applying to increase your chances. If you want econ focus on econ and take a look at the programs available. What about U of Chicago? Others good choices will also emerge as you search. You need a couple of good safeties too. Rule out schools, even Ivy’s, if they are not strong in the area you want to be strong in. Put strongests xtrac’s on Common App and then prepare an activities resume to put everything on in a professional format. BE YOURSELF above everything else.</p>
<p>The sad thing is that in my high school, almost all of the valedictorians were asians(4.0) and they are only going to the UCs and lesser known privates with the exception of one which is going to an Ivy League. its getting tougher every year.(6 valedictorians)</p>
<p>Please name your HS. Alameda?</p>
<p>futurexreject. Is your father or mother Chinese?</p>
<p>True, you have the Asian Syndrome thing going on…but you’re good for those Ivies, I must say! :]</p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/what-my-chances/724051-am-i-doing-too-much.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/what-my-chances/724051-am-i-doing-too-much.html</a> <<< Help the fellow Asian? haha</p>
<p>hmm… yes. My year will have not too many smart people. Only me and this other asian guy (lets call him Nick) is up there. Our valedictorian is asian too, but she is not too smart in terms of SAT and EC’s. </p>
<p>I am projecting that there are about 5 people who are going to make it above UC Berkeley.</p>
<p>Nick - he did everything i did, we were on same team. But he is a math genius who qualified for the USAMO this year. And he is ranked 3 from 9-12 and maybe 6 from 10-12. SAT II math 800, SAT II World Hist 800, SAT II physics 780. Yea he is good. better than me in same ways.</p>
<p>Valedictorian Chick- asian, was on the same team as me for some stuff. 2230 on SAT I think (she took it like 4 times so far). She took like 11 APs total, but they are with mixed results. SATII’s average about 740? </p>
<p>Some other mixed people left. The thing is some others may have great rankings but lower SAT scores. And people with great ACT and SAT scores have bad rankings (10+), so there are like very few people in my school who HAVE IT ALL. Not as godo as the year that graduated this year for sure.</p>
<p>What do u think jameschen?</p>
<p>You need some smart white kids to push you through–ones that will get accepted by the top schools (Ivy plus others) to set a benchmark for Asians like you. On the other hand, if your school is an established “feeder” to specific colleges, then you have to try and ride that annual wave in.</p>
<p>Otherwise, I can almost guarantee you that the Asians in your class will either get shut out from the upper tier schools, or be forced to feed on leftovers (Berkeley and the odd Chicago or JHU) if you try and “shoot the moon”. In lean years, your best bet is to play the odds and select an early action at a place like Cornell or Penn and settle for the lower-tier Ivy as a consolation prize (but a nice one, certainly).</p>
<p>Even at his uber-math level, Nick is no better than a 50% chance at HYPSM (one or two schools at most), because he’s probably to “be himself” on his college apps and most of the admissions readers are going to reach and grab that “Asian Robot” stamp to nuke his chances.</p>
<p>35 ACT is roughly equivalent to a 2350, I believe… certainly 2300+. It is difficult to achieve and certainly not leading you to retake it or the SAT.</p>
<p>I would say your chances are lowest at Stanford, due to proximity and stereotyping. As unfair as it is, your stats/ECs/interests are extremely typical of an Asian male. And being from California will hurt.</p>
<p>I agree with jamescchen’s analysis (we’ve obviously read the same books). Approximately 2 people from my school (East coast) have gotten into Stanford in the past decade. Two rejectees from recent years–both ORM–ended up at Columbia and Penn (the Penn girl also got into Dartmouth early write). We do OK at the Ivies, but can count on at least a couple to Penn (5 this year, IIRC). Part of this is probably the feeder effect, since we don’t have quite the same results to Cornell. Seems like a lot of Ivy rejectees ended up at Chicago, from my limited anecdotal sample. And the one person who got into Stanford this year was an Asian male with physics-genius credentials AND a quirky personality (i.e. wrote his Common App essay about an obscure manga character).</p>
<p>You have a decent chance, just gotta perfect those essays…
your stats are really similar to mine…
just for comparison, I go to a “suburban refuge” school in California, and it’s lookin like this: (copied from my previous thread)</p>
<p>"My year in my large, public high school is really intense, compared to other years. Would this make it harder for me to get into a top school, such as HYPSMC? Would I be compared to the others? For example, we have 4 extremely qualified people:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>half asian girl, extremely poor (dad does not live in country, mom is going to grad school, lives in small apartment, family does not have a car, makes about 5K, doing Questbridge), rank 11, president of key club, speech and debate captain, state qualifier+nationals, NHS, 2290 SAT, NMSF</p></li>
<li><p>indian guy, speech and debate captain+state qualifier+nationals+Tournament of Champions, American Legion winner, winner of many speech contests, Boy’s State, science research (submit to intel, siemens), CSF Prez, NHS, rank 2, 2350 SAT, NMSF, ASB member, paid to teach debate, piano, helped start debate program in Mexico, knows three languages fluently</p></li>
<li><p>me- asian, rank 1, 2260 SAT freshman year, NMSF, ASB member (2 years), school board district student member, Summer Science Program (legit summer program that sends >50% to HYPSM), COSMOS summer program, theoretical math research (attended numerous undergrad conferences and will publish in journal), math club president, robotics club captain, JETS Team 1st place+national finalist, AMC 12 school winner, AIME qualifier, low-income (parents can’t speak english, tutor sister in school, have to help with family chores, applying to Questbridge)</p></li>
<li><p>black girl- nationally/internationally ranked in track and field, went to Junior Olympics…as a sophomore. also ASB government member+dance team+good grades</p></li>
</ol>
<p>However, our school usually only sends 1-2 to HYPSMC. I don’t think our school has been this competitive for a long time. Would it be harder for me to get in, since our school historically doesn’t send many to top tier colleges? Just curious, thanks!"</p>
<p>jamescchen any thoughts on this?</p>
<p>First off, Keilexandra, what book are you referring to? I’m still in the process of writing THE book for Asian college applicants!</p>
<p>Mr. Jones, I have seen “bumps” in admission from HYPSM at relatively weak high schools, but there is usually an explanation. Sometimes, its as simple as legacy (as seen in the example above with Princeton) and other times its because there are two or more truly exceptional candidates in a given year (like USAMO finalists).</p>
<p>My prediction is that the black girl (assuming she meets basic admissions requirements) will win all the marbles in the upcoming year. This does not help you or the Indian fella in the least, but there is a fair chance that #1 will get pulled into HYPSM in her wake. I’ve seen this happen several times–where the lucky one following behind the black student is a poor student (Viet or white, mostly).</p>
<p>Your best shot in this case is to find out where the black girl is not applying, and then apply EA/ED to one of those schools that meets your needs. If you are lucky, she will apply EA/ED to a school but I think that is unlikely because if she is that good, she essentially be auctioning off her track services to the highest bidder (financial aid package). So it makes little sense for her to apply EA/ED to a school.</p>
<p>This past April, I have seen Asian students at several “suburban refuge” high schools in Northern CA get utterly decimated by the Ivy’s during a “down” year for the school. As a result, all 10-12 top Asians in these classes are going to either Berkeley or UCLA. As I informed the parents at a postmortem meeting just today (I am an college consultant, by the way, but none of these students was a client), this slaughter was the result of:</p>
<p>1) Poor strategic planning
2) Over-estimation of admissions success
3) Narrow college selection (Ivies, MIT, Stanford, UC only)</p>
<p>My advice to these parents was to expand their college selection, and to at least meet with a professional consultant (me, of course) to get a realistic estimate for their admissions success.</p>
<p>Let me copy what I said in an earlier thread:</p>
<p>“Why is it that SoCal Asian kids all think about the big schools? If you gunned for the top LACs (Amherst, Williams, Pomona, etc.), you would have much less competition getting into college and have significant athletic and geographical hooks. Instead, you all head like lemmings into the jaws of HYPSM and then get slaughtered on D-Day, and end up going to Berkeley or UCSD. I see this over and over again.”</p>
<p>Good luck in your college search! And let me know what happens!</p>