Chance and match for math majors

Regarding an LAC experience, it seems your son has yet take an array of essential college-level mathematics courses such as linear algebra, real analysis, abstract algebra, complex analysis, topology and functional analysis. Beyond courses in “basic” topics such as these, he might foresee taking an additional 3 to 9 math courses tailored more specifically to his interests during his undergraduate education, at least on his home campus. Therefore, as your son looks through department sites, he’ll want to see whether he can find close to 15 math courses of potential interest to him as an indicator of whether a college’s offerings would be ample for his level. Wherever he attends, he would be unlikely to be advised (or permitted) to take more math classes than this. Courses in computer science and mathematically-oriented courses in physics (e.g., mathematical physics, general relativity) also should be considered as potentially integral to the mathematical component of his education. Additional opportunities for variety and depth can arise through a Budapest semester or an REU.

Thank you. An instructor at MathILy told him to check for these classes and their frequency: 2 semesters of analysis, 2 of semesters algebra, 1-2 semesters of topology, complex analysis. I know he intends to take CS and physics courses in college.

As additional schools to research, look into the math curricula of Hamilton, Williams and Bowdoin.

Upper level math department courses (not including seminar or varying topics courses, or courses that appear to offered less often than once every two years):

Hamilton ( https://www.hamilton.edu/academics/departments/Courses-and-Requirements?dept=Mathematics ): 6 pure math, 3 applied math, 3 statistics

Williams ( https://math.williams.edu/courses/ ): 26 pure math, 15 applied math, 1 statistics, 1 CS

Bowdoin ( https://www.bowdoin.edu/math/pdf/course-rotation.pdf ): 11 pure math, 11 applied math, 4 statistics

For comparison to Brown:

Brown ( Course Descriptions | Department of Mathematics | Brown University ): 10 pure math, 9 graduate pure math, 3 applied math, 2 statistics, 1 graduate statistics

Brown applied math department ( Applied Mathematics Department - Brown University ): 37 applied math, 59 graduate applied math, 5 statistics, 4 graduate statistics

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However, it’s in these types of courses that some of the most advanced math topics may be explored, and in which some of the attributes of an LAC-style of education may be most evident.

Those seminars and special topics courses are certainly not unique to LACs.

Are there any/enough safeties on this list?

Brown
University of Chicago
Pomona
Harvey Mudd
Haverford
Swarthmore
Carleton
University of Michigan
Amherst
University of Rochester
Macalester
Harvard
UC Berkeley
Carnegie Mellon
Reed

Yes. But it wouldn’t kill you to throw in an app at Truman State if you want small or Missouri S&T. Just in case and for financial flexibility even though you seem less concerned with that.

It’s a crazy world and while you’ll get into Macalester, Reed, and Rochester for sure…well in a test optional environment, with more apps than ever nothing is for sure.

Is lack of core requirements bad in any way? Obviously he won’t take 100% math courses at any school. Does going to a school with an open curriculum hurt a student at all? My son said he did core requirements in high school and he’s done. He likes the flexibility (and the idea of not taking any literature classes).

In terms of student preferences, no. It is only a disadvantage if you feel that the student should learn what is contained in more extensive general education requirements that the student would not otherwise choose to take (but note that colleges with more extensive general education requirements do vary in what they are; for example, MIT and Harvey Mudd have heavier science requirements than most colleges with extensive general education requirements).

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At Brown in particular, most students will end up taking lots of different types of classes if you’re worried about him taking too many math classes. Even math classes at Brown are relatively interdisciplinary compared to other schools I looked at. Some people may worry about only meeting people in their concentration, but at a school with as much flexibility as Brown, it’s not a problem. The only way I think open curriculum would hurt a student is if they have no idea what they want to do and are overwhelmed, which doesn’t seem to be the case for your son.

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Thanks. I don’t think not taking classes analyzing literature will hurt him. I know he wants to take physics and computer science classes. I think he’ll explore classes in linguistics, philosophy, psychology, etc. I think he just doesn’t like strict requirements.

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How is math at Penn? Do it help at all to be a legacy for RD there? Thanks.

According to their website only ED and legacy work in tandem.

https://www.alumni.upenn.edu/s/1587/gid2/16/interior.aspx?sid=1587&gid=2&pgid=20995 says that “Legacies who apply to Penn during Early Decision receive thorough consideration in the application process.” Note that it does not say that legacy preference is absent for those applying RD.

First-Year Admission | Penn Admissions says that “We appreciate that attending Penn is a tradition for many families, so an applicant’s affiliation with Penn, either by being a child or grandchild of alumni, is given the most consideration through Early Decision.” This implies that consideration of legacy is strongest in ED, but does not mean that it is absent in RD.

In other words, it is likely that at Penn, 0 ≤ RD consideration of legacy ≤ ED consideration of legacy.

Any reason why only small LAC’s as safeties? For an advanced math student, it’s not clear to me that the safety LAC’s would provide the depth of mathematics after the first 2 or 2.5 years, and it would be easy to run out of math courses. This point was also raised by ucbalumnus. At first I thought it was because the student prefers smaller colleges, but then UCB and UMich were counterexamples to that.

Others have also suggested some state universities as safeties. Math departments at flagships like UMN and UMD have excellent undergrad opportunities. They regularly produce Goldwater scholars and the like, and have a critical mass of top math students. They also have access to graduate level courses, which I think your son would be able to take by junior year.

There are no safeties on that list (nor highly likelies). Look for schools with 60%+ acceptance rate, and of course any safer school has to be affordable.

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Thank you. Are UMN and UMD better for math than University of Washington or University of Wisconsin? I’m assuming UIUC is tougher to get into. He may apply to Missouri S & T as a safety. He really would prefer to leave Missouri though. I know things have changed dramatically, but Michigan was my safety school many years ago (I think they actually had rolling admissions back then).

I am not sure that is true. Here is 60 years of PhD undergrad school data, one would have to adjust for school size to really compare.

You can cut by type of school as well, which you will find is where the LACs shine (refine based on Carnegie rollup baccalaureate school only)…although as discussed above, you have to make sure any LAC has enough higher level math classes for you.

You can also cut this data by major, for example, in the past 60 years among baccalureate only/LACs, Harvey Mudd, Reed, and Oberlin have produced the most math/stats PhDs, while MIT, Harvard, and UCB have produced the most math/stats PhDs from the set of doctoral carnegie classification.

Is it suitable for his interests in pure math, since its math major is focused on applied math?
http://catalog.mst.edu/undergraduate/degreeprogramsandcourses/mathematics/#bachelorstext