Chance for ED, ED2, or RD class of 2020

Stats
UW GPA- 3.6 due to a poor freshman year but tremendous trend upward
W GPA- 4.374
ACT- 31 composite and 12 on the writing
Honor roll all years

School-
Chicago . Ranked #7 most competitive in IL class of 1000 and no rank given

Activities:
Band-2 years
Orchestra- 3 years and signed up for next year
Model United Nations- 2 years and president
Boys and Girls service club
Various intermural sports throughout the years

Extras:
Done something academic with all of my summers throughout high school
-took chemistry over the summer before 10th grade
-took shakespeare studies at the University of Oxford in England the summer before 11th grade
-Lifeguard summer going into 11th and 12th grades
-Intern at University of Illinois of Chicago Diabetes Research Lab summer going into 12th grade. this lead to a publication so I am published and also I got a college rec from a world renown transplant surgeon

-Taken the most rigorous courses after freshman year including 6 sciences (Physics Chem Bio AP Chem AP Bio and AP Physics C) normally a student takes four, very rarely a student takes five and I am the only kid in my class of 1000 taking 6.
-Also aside from those AP sciences I will or have taken- AP Psych and AP Calc AB as well as 5 years of language.
-I have also each year taken a class before school to fit more majors than normal into my schedule.

-Recomendations- One from my Intro bio teacher who also taught my AP bio class amazing rec. One is from American History teacher which will be good but not great and one more.

Leadership
-Phyllis Leadership program- program that aims to connect kids from the affulent north shore with kids from the south and west sides of chicago.
-SILC- Student Instruction Leadership Core- basically a TA, for biology
-Senior Helper- Senior that advise freshman through their trannsition and year through high school. I am practically their homeroom teacher.

Internded path: Pre-Med

What are my chances!?!?!

You should be fine as I guess you’ll be one of the better pre-med applicants, at least for the ED rounds. For RD, you could be drowned out by some of the ridiculous people, many of whom are applying for scholars and may be more quantitatively interested.

How were the AP scores? Also, how about SAT 2 subject tests? Like how interested are you in Emory? I just ask this because if you’re aiming for schools like Ivies/have higher stats…SAT IIs are needed for many of them and help you to stand out at Emory and others. In addition, the raw “amount” of AP’s you do can have diminished returns. As in, elite colleges really only expect a lot versus what is offered so you may not have a particular advantage over the others you mention who take less but are still doing well. Showing intellectual depth is more important as the “AP race” becomes kind of cliche. I would highlight the other learning opps. you have had in your essays or maybe demonstrate that you did this because you wanted a challenge or something, because all the AP sciences + “pre-med” is very stereotypical and I think adcoms particularly at Emory (lately at least), know what happens to many of these students despite all of their AP credit. Many do well, but go on to become relatively “dull” primarily because they do not challenge themselves when they get here. Like, they’ll just fall in line and follow the pre-health mentoring folks (often wrong/giving generic info) and their peers and forfeit their AP credit thinking they’ll get easy A’s (most will get B’s in something like chemistry because they are competing against others who do the same thing, cop out. The only option for a guaranteed A is to take an easy instructor which is a waste of time if you’re any good). You’ll want to show any adcom at schools you apply to that you are or intend to be different. Also, what academic majors are you interested in because pre-med is not a major at Emory or many selective privates? If it is something that is less stereotypical for a pre-health student, sell it.

Conclusion: Probably a yes for RD, but unless you’re “different”, your chances are perhaps only as good as anyone else in the interquartile range unless Emory’s app. numbers corrects itself from the “ebola bump” it had the past cycle. If it stays the same, your chances may be more like the 25-35% range. Lower if it goes up. Again, I think your record is excellent in isolation but nothing can be done if many others look like it. For RD, if you don’t get into your dream schools ED, then put your best effort forward on essays for the others and see what happens. For Emory, that means at least attempting the optional supplement if you have some interesting ideas.

Thanks so much! there is no ranking at my school to clarify. the highschool is the 7th most competitive. and how would you ssuggest distinguishing myself in RD bcuz I thnk I wil probs go with Vandy or Carnegie Mellon as ED. Also can you suggest any target/ safety schools? and my major would be a physical science i.e. chem, biochem, physics and such with a minor in spanish

I’m going to sell Emory (or replace Rice, WashU, JHU, places liken that) and Carnegie Mellon for science (I can’t sell the social environment, but I can sell them academically versus your interests and I think Emory and CMU are most similar):To be blunt, while I would keep Carnegie Mellon, and like Vandy for some things, I do not think they are better than Emory or Carnegie at chemistry or anything biochemistry related (maybe try somewhere else…Rice or something). I actually compared many of the courses and talked to a friend currently attending there and Emory generally seemed superior in many of the chemistry classes (especially the pre-med ones) in terms of the way they are taught and the level at which professors are expected to perform (gen chem/ochem instructors and exams perceived as difficult there were nowhere near the level of those considered so here which suggests a difference in quality because Vandy students are much better on paper when they enter. I would actually say gen. chem is generally the same level, but Emory students didn’t complain as much claiming that it was “very hard”. Also theirs is standardized whereas our instructors write different tests so I guess we have “tiers”. But either way, with exception of Mulford, there isn’t as much complaining about the difficulty). Many of the biology courses are much better as well. I think Emory and Carnegie Mellon try much harder to have innovative and strong teaching across the science curriculum (I’ve also seen Carnegie’s material).

Carnegie is traditionally known to be strong and Emory has a Center for Science Education (this only exists at some top privates including WashU which is also unusually strong and rigorous in the fields I am referring to) which results in lots of grants to change teaching in the sciences and has also been used to recruit some of the strongest teachers for many courses, and the also the chemistry curriculum is being completely revamped at Emory. Vanderbilt has an amazing social environment (education in the social sciences is excellent as well) and I think they are, in general, better in physics, but Emory seems to beat it hands down in education in the natural science oriented “physical sciences” (any major requiring physics). I just have to warn you about that…hopefully you are attracted by the experience of Vandy, but I don’t think they are that strong (compared to other top privates) or unique in terms of undergraduate science education if that is important to you. Is it good enough for pre-med, of course?It is still stronger than most normal caliber school, but among the schools that you could more easily get into ED or RD (okay, RD for Vandy is near impossible), they are not among the stronger ones. If it were anything else, I would say, “go for it!”, but I don’t particularly like their sciences…too traditional.

Chemistry, for example: large lecture, instructors primarily use powerpoint/transparancy whereas at other schools I mention it is more interactive with use of the board (which implies that it is less spoon fed and less geared toward memorization). Exams don’t really demand higher ordered or multi-concept thinking/not as tied to applications (even with the “best” instructors). Biology courses: I actually think the intros. have rigor, but the wrong type. Like most (I found one instructor who didn’t and they are avoided and trashed like the plague) focus on memorization of specific details instead of experimental data analysis, case studies, context based stuff like most of our instructors. And unfortunately, this persists in many advanced courses where it is the same instructors every semester/year with not much choice and they teach the same every single year (the best class I’ve seen is their genetics class). In general, seems that Carnegie Mellon (many of their course materials are somewhat accessible on Google) and Emory (and similar science oriented privates) are trying much harder to get away from the traditional and it shows in the course offerings and who whole suites of courses are taught. For example, at Emory, the “evolutionary suite” (organismal form and function, ecology, and evolutionary biology) of courses is, by most instructors is taught and tested based upon data analysis/experiments. There isn’t as much lecture, and the instructors focus on activities in class that get students to learn the content in terms of data (which is more similar to the MCAT). Also, many of the major intermediate and advanced courses have “discussion sections” which are not equivalent to the “recitation” you hear of in intro. courses at other schools, but focuses on analysis of primary literature in each field (we have them for genetics, immunology, evolutionary, advanced molecular genetics). All of this is good if you’re a science minded person and pay off despite them seeming like another hoop to jump through at first. I do not see the equivalent at Vanderbilt. Furthermore, Carnegie Mellon and Emory (but much moreso CMU currently. At Emory, it is growing) have more expansive offerings that make the life sciences and physical/quantitative/computational sciences cross over.

I know at Emory, there is a whole suite of classes in biology that are typically offered each year that are much more computational and quantitative in nature (such as Advanced molecular genetics, immunology, physical biology, computational neuroscience, advanced population biology, computational modeling for science and engineering and all of these are taught completely differently than most courses, usually beinhg pbl or inquiry based learning in nature) which is weird since we don’t have engineering (I don’t see these in their biology or chemistry offerings). In fact, if you were going to do engineering, I would say definitely do them ED, but if it is mostly physical/natural then elsewhere, including Emory (I used to not care much for Emory’s, but it has gotten a bit better and when compared to many other places, was already a bit better, though I didn’t realize it before). Anyway, this was long-winded, but if you care about the academics as much as the social or more, I recommend looking at the course offerings and finding syllabi if you can (Vandy makes many biology syllabi public. Even though they are generally old, the same folks are still teaching). For chemistry, you can just look at the offerings or rmp (for how students claim teachers instruct). I have just learned that perception of schools’ strengths can be deceptive and should be researched further because it is hard to see these differences when every school is claiming to be “great” at x, y, and z. Either way, just go through a course atlas (in Emory’s case), Vandy’s course schedule, and CMU’s equivalent. These places are not the same for that sort of stuff. Like even though Emory doesn’t offer a specific concentration in biochemistry, I think it is still stronger because of the offerings and the folks teaching (and how and what they teach).

As for other schools: Emory would be your target (by that, I mean, your chances are as high as most people not in the 75%) I guess. Safeties? Is Urbana-Champagne a safety for you (I don’t know their stats-I just know it is a really good school for sciences)? Also, are you willing to consider out of state publics or are you looking for safety privates that are solid at science?

Thank you so much for your insight it is very helpful. Now i agree with you that vandy just isnt on par with emory and cmu. Do you know any others besides washu that come to mind? Also i kive in illinois urbana is safety 68% acceptance rate.

I need more safetys and target schools but emory i am visiting in aug and am strongly considering for an ED

Either way, if you wanted me to back all of this up, I would PM you so that I do not waste more space (I’ve wasted enough).

And I meant any major requiring physics OR/AND chemistry

Plz PM me so we can talk further about this and additional options?

That was so helpful - thank you!

@bernie12 what are some ways to be “different” and help stand out against other applicants?

I mean, I don’t know your current qualifications…I would have to tell you within that context. You could already stand out

What are my chances…?
ACT: 32 composite (36E 32M 30R 32S)
GPA: 4.781 out of 4 (weighted) 3.93 out of 4 (unweighted)
High Honor Roll every year
Senior Year: AP bio, Spanish 5, Ap Psych, Ap Microecon, Ap Lit, Ap calc

EC:
1st chair bassoon: band, orchestra, quintet, lessons
4year varsity lacrosse: 2yr captain, 2yr MVP, 3yr all conference
3yr freshman mentor
3yr ambassador for school
4yr relay for life
selected to attend NCLA leadership convention
lived in Panama for 3week
3yr cross country runner
lacrosse coach

Intended Major: Neuroscience

@lander33256 Don’t list lived in Panama as an accolade unless you’re willing to list the cause or endeavor it was associated with. Have you already taken some AP classes and scored in them? How about an SAT 2? Right now, your chances look merely alright…as in you qualify academically but many others with stats lower (but still qualified, I would say 28-29 or so) or higher than yours will have stronger, more interesting ECs. The athleticism will certainly help on top of music, but it doesn’t really stand out. You will have to sell them with your essays…showing why you are interested and how you fit.

Chance me?

GPA: 4.0 (unweighted)
Class rank: 3/87
SAT: 750 CR, 730 W, 630 M
SAT II: History 780 Brit Lit 720
AP: 5s on all APs taken so far

EC:
School ambassador
Started a tutoring program at local middle school
Head of big sister/little sister
NHS vice president
Academic bowl team
Religious retreat leader
4 year volunteer at local nursing home
4 year volunteer at local homeless shelter

Awards
Honors all 4 years
French honor society
AP scholar with distinction
National Latin Exam Bronze medal award
History scholar award from DAR

Other
took a summer course at Brown on literature
Recommendations should be good

Thank you!!

@hlb9597 It’s a “maybe”…because even if the app. numbers decreased, there are likely too many students that look extremely similar to you. You maybe would be more attractive if you had over 1450/1600 on the SAT. If the essays are good, then you should have a decent shot. You certainly deserve to gain admission but it doesn’t mean you will unfortunately.

And thank you so much for not rating your own essays and rec. letters. I seriously appreciate that. Way too many posters do it…as if they will be necessarily be interpreted the same by an adcom member.

@bernie12 thank you for your feedback!!