Chance/match an indecisive MA senior [3.98/1580, education or psychology]

Chance Me / Match Me!
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My kid just graduated from Midd. There are no fraternities and sororities anymore, and have been doing better regarding diversity, including economic. They have three Posse cohorts every year, and have also participating in Questbridge. Less than a decade ago, it was 78% non-Hispanic White, now down to 64% and still dropping. Not yet at the level of Swarthmore or Wellesley, and may not get there, but that is their trajectory.

My kid just graduated from Midd this spring, and she is LGBTQ and deals with ADHD. Midd is very LGBTQ friendly, and she has had really good support with her ADHD. Academics there are intense, especially for STEM majors - she majored in Neuroscience with more of a STEM tilt. Her friend circles were very diverse, and she also attended as a Posse Scholar, so she had friend groups that were very diverse. She was also part of a hiphop dance group for her 4 years.

For her, outdoors activities is a very large part of the “experience”. My kid spent a lot of time outdoors, either hiking or running, or just walking to the Knoll at night. She really only started doing this after she got to Middlebury. She wasn’t that much of an outdoorsy person until just before college. It also helps her manage her ADHD.

I recommend that you visit Midd. See if it meets your criteria.

I would like to comment that I like how you are looking at the college search process. I like that you are looking at college from the point of view of “are these colleges good for me?”, rather than “am I good enough for these colleges which I perceive as being prestigious”.

That is a very healthy and smart way to go about college search and applications!

Good Luck!

PS. I think that you will do very well in any of the colleges to which you are accepted.

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I agree.

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New England English teacher here. I agree that Clark is a great safety for you, although worth doing a little research to see if the focus of their psych department aligns with your interests (imo you should check this at all small schools). I would also look at Bard, as a small school with significant merit $$ available.

For reaches, I agree that Vassar & Swarthmore are worth considering. If you’d be open to looking outside of New England, check out Carleton & Macalester—both highly ranked, strong English/psych departments, under 60% white, not especially sports-focused and more economically diverse (& maybe less elitist feeling) than the east coast schools you are looking at. Macalester has merit aid.

UMass Amherst is $35k COA even in state, just fyi. One other consideration: in MA, teachers are required to get a masters degree in their first few years of teaching. You may find it challenging to get an English job without it. If you can afford it, I recommend not trying to student teach during undergrad—instead, consider going back for an affordable masters or doing a teacher residency program (Boston has a good one) after you get your undergrad degree.

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My state also requires a masters within 5 years. Many teachers get their undergraduate degree in education and do student teaching while in undergrad. Then they work while attending grad school part time or continue straight to full time grad school.

May I ask why you do not recommend doing student teaching while in undergrad (you may be right, I am just curious)? One of my kids did student teaching in undergrad and went straight to grad school. The other had no experience in the field at all and did TFA for 2 years.

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Sure! Obviously lots of teachers start in the classroom right out of undergrad & then get their masters while working, with great results (I’m mentoring a new teacher doing that now). It’s just hard, at least in high school English (my only experience). Student teaching is really time-consuming &, if you’re doing it well, will pull you away from your undergrad life/experience. (I also wouldn’t want to pay, say, Brown tuition for the student teaching credits). And the first couple of years teaching are also hard & time-consuming—attending graduate classes 2 evenings a week makes it even tougher for new teachers to find work/life balance. I’m watching so many colleagues burn out; I want new teachers to have the best possible start.

I also think that’s it’s good to give yourself time to explore options & make sure that you really want to teach before committing. It’s a great career in many ways, but it’s challenging & relatively low-paying (getting more so). Fulfilling state license requirements takes up a of the undergrad coursework; I’m telling my own kid (also a prospective teacher) that I’d rather see them use that undergrad time to explore a variety of interests & develop a variety of skills, & then return for an affordable masters or residency program when/if they’re sure. But you could certainly make an argument for doing it the other way around—certify as an undergrad, try teaching, & then pivot to something else if teaching turns out not be your passion. I don’t think there’s any one “right” way.

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It’s true CA is far but college is the ideal time for you to experience another part of the country. But moving 400 miles away would also serve that “steetching yet comfortable” purpose and some of your colleges would be fine for that too.

Agnes Scott is indeed quite small -being in a metropolis, I don’t know if it feels small. I know they’re very diverse and LGBTQIA friendly. Highlighted it bc it’s worth further research I think.

Haverford-BrynMawr are 2 sides of a coin, so when evaluating their size add them up. (Schedules are fully integrated).

Your list is already well thought out so feel free to disregard the above recommendations, they’re basically of the no stone left unturned variety. :wink:

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Thank you for your perspective! I work in a school (related services) and I always tell the teachers that I could never do their job. I think it’s grueling work and many don’t fully understand what is involved each day until they see it up close.

Thank you!

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Seconding the suggestion to look a bit beyond the Northeast, if possible. We’re also from MA, and one of my daughters is now a (very happy) freshman at Macalester — and I can verify that it’s a match for many of your like/dislike preferences, including relatively generous merit for a highly rated school (based on your stats alone, I’d guess you’d be eligible for $20-$25k/yr in merit there). Carleton is also absolutely terrific, although I don’t believe merit is generally available.

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Might as well add St. Olaf to the list as well. Lots of great visit reports on CC if you do a search.

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So I met with my Latin teacher, who knows me well and will be writing one of my recs. It’s not a very popular program at my school (3 part-time teachers) so she tends to have a good idea of what the students in her classes are like as individuals, and where they end up going to school. We went through my list of schools to consider, and also the SCOIR scattergrams. She could name basically every green dot from some of the more selective schools. My question: is it worth applying to colleges that unhooked students from my school with similar stats have not gotten into the last few years? We’ve been filtering by 2021-2023 because pre-COVID was such a different animal in terms of admissions. For many of the schools I was looking at (Amherst, Swat, etc) we have had 1-2, often zero non-athletes get in. From a strategic perspective, should I shoot my shot anyway, or not bother applying if we haven’t had any unhooked students accepted? It would narrow things down for me considerably, which would honestly be somewhat helpful given how I struggle with indecision :sweat_smile:

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You need one, preferably two schools that meet your need:

  1. You’re basically assured admission

  2. You’d be stoked to go there

  3. It fits whatever the budget is

Truth be told, after that, where you apply doesn’t matter. Obviously, applying only to schools with little chance isn’t wise but if you have that couple schools you know will work, and if you’re ok with possible heavy rejection, then yes, you should apply to the schools that can meet your needs.

Others may have gotten rejected but you don’t truly know why. Maybe you have something they didn’t - or maybe they’re looking for someone like you.

I do know this - if you don’t apply, you can’t get in.

Also - if you’re having trouble narrowing things down, what may help is instead of looking at 20 or 40 schools, start doing head to heads.

If I get into Clark, and I got into Trinity, would I go to Trinity? No - gone.

So find the one that you know you’ll get into - and start comparing it vs. harder admits. If you’d pick that easier/safety admit over the harder to get into, then you can eliminate that one now.

Sure - you could say - I’d love to go to Williams but it’s a really hard get - so I should just eliminate it. But - if you’d love to go to Williams, why not give yourself a chance.

Sometimes looking at two a time is easier than an entire list.

Good luck.

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Would now be a good time to post an updated list/the full list of schools I’m actively considering adding?

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Yes

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Updated list:
Safety: Clark University, Wheaton ($0 fee and one brief supplement)

Likely: Kenyon

Target: Northeastern, Vassar

Reach: Brown, Northwestern, Tufts, Wesleyan University

Possible additions:
Safety: Bard College

Likely: Brandeis, Mount Holyoke, Oberlin, Smith College, University of Rochester (thank you @AustenNut :smile: ), William & Mary (strongly recommended for me in particular by Latin teacher)

Target: Georgetown, Middlebury, WashU St. Louis, Wellesley

Reach: Amherst*, Carnegie Mellon, Cornell, Harvard, Johns Hopkins, Stanford, Swarthmore*, UPenn*, Vanderbilt, Williams*, Yale

Thoughts/red flags? Schools w/ asterisks are the ones unhooked students from my school tend not to get into, no matter how high their stats are. I’m trying to cut this down significantly, especially the reach portion, so thoughts/ideas would be appreciated. Just eliminated Columbia and Barnard based on lack of ed program for undergrad/rigid stance on def. of “woman.”

Thanks so much to everyone for y’all’s ideas and thoughts so far!

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This looks like a pretty good list. For potential cuts, I am not sure why you’d full-pay to Clark or Northeastern as your safeties when U Mass Amherst has a better academic reputation, a better English department and education major, a great psychology program if you want to do research (which you mentioned at the top), better food (!) and is ranked 5/5 by Campus Pride for LGBTQ+ friendliness and inclusion . However, maybe there are other reasons (co-op? location?)

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I go back and forth on UMass a lot. I haven’t visited formally but stayed on campus during summer programs for a weekend each of the last two years. The biggest thing I dislike is probably the size. 23,000 undergrads feels huge, although I would hope to be admitted to the honors college and maybe that would change things? When I was there I also didn’t love the campus’ size/vibe personally. I’ve also heard it’s a party school? I would also hope to get a decent amount of merit from Clark but wouldn’t really expect much from UMass, since in-state students tend not to get merit from what I’ve seen. I would also pay $85 to apply (vs $0 for Bard and Wheaton) and likely not hear back until the end of January (while Bard I believe is released towards the end of December). The strength of their various programs is a huge bonus, as well as the low in-state prices (and also the food!) but I’m on the fence about the size.

If I like Bard/Clark/Wheaton and expect to get merit from them, is it still worth applying? Should I wait to hear back from those three and RD to UMass if it will end up being more expensive? I also might apply to some schools in the UK which would be cheaper than full price schools here as well–would that change things?

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UMass EA used to release decisions in waves in December. Has that changed?

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No. Two years ago my S22 heard back in December (I can’t recall the date).

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Blockquote If I like Bard/Clark/Wheaton and expect to get merit from them, is it still worth applying?

Just re: Bard, they don’t seem to give merit aid. Undergraduate Admission

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Bard has various scholarships some of which have to be applied for separately. They do not make that obvious. I don’t remember if they also had merit that everyone was considered for automatically like other schools.

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