Chance/match an indecisive MA senior [3.98/1580, education or psychology]

I posted earlier that my D23 received a sizable merit award from Clark (1/2 of tuition). This wasn’t the highest amount and I think you would be very competitive for their full ride award. There was a date for the scholarship it was either late October/early November but I can’t remember if that is because she applied early action. You would have to check the website for the scholarship deadline details. She did not receive her acceptance until January but I can’t remember if that was before or after the regular decision deadline.

We are also MA residents and we insisted D23 apply to UMASS Amherst strictly for budget purposes. D23 had the same concerns as you about the size and fit. She applied EA and was accepted into the Honors College in the first wave. Decision was out either very late in November or early December. She received a $2,000 merit award for the Honors College. As far as we could tell this was the only amount in state students received. We couldn’t even get her to go tour. Our deal was if she could get an acceptance from another school that came close to UMASS in price she could cross UMASS off the list.

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You’ll definitely get into Wheaton and Clark, with significant merit.
With that in mind, it’s up to you whether it’s worth applying to UMass Honors as a 3rd safety.

Agree you’ll get into Wheaton (but probably makes sense to demonstrate a bit of interest) and merit for your stats may get you to less than half COA there…I’d guess it will come pretty close to UMass cost.

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It’s possible but on Bard’s own website they have two entire paragraphs on why they do not give merit aid. To quote just a part: “The College is a need-based aid-only institution and prioritizes its financial aid for students who could not afford to enroll without the College’s support. Merit-based aid often leads to higher discount rates for students of means who can afford the full cost of high-quality education on their own at the expense of those with the least means. Using “merit aid” as a euphemism for funding to high-income applicants runs counter to our institutional ideals.”

Hmm maybe it’s changed since my kid applied in 2021. If so apologies for misleading you!

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Ah okay, I saw this on the website: " Admissions decisions posted online: Early Action: By the end of January" and assumed it meant all decisions would come out at the same time at the end of January.

Oh interesting; maybe UMass will go back on the list then. Was the merit counting the John/Abigail Adams scholarship for MCAS scores or in addition to it?

Probably going to remove Bard and possibly add UMass? UChicago is also on there for reach.

ED: Brown
EA: Clark, Northeastern, Wheaton, maybe UMass?

Am trying to narrow down the possible RD additions; any thoughts? Thanks again to everyone!

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It happens - Franklin & Marshall was need only - and now opened up to merit but wasn’t the case historically.

Some of the schools change their norms.

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Yeah, just recently Bard received a $500 million gift and that completely transformed their financial aid options. From what I understand, previously they were not able to meet need as reliably, and used merit to help “recruit” their class. They still do not pledge to be a 100% need met school from what I understand. But they do have this line on their financial aid homepage: " If you feel your package is not sufficient to meet your need, please contact Financial Aid and/or Admission to discuss alternatives." That suggests to me that they still do tuition discounting.

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In my view, whatever definitions you are using for your categories fail to include low acceptance rates making some of these schools reaches for all applicants, including ones with high stats. For example, Northeastern, Vassar, Georgetown, Midd, WashU, Wellesley would all be reaches in my opinion. In particular, Georgetown, WashU, and Northeastern have especially low acceptance rates. Same for your most of your Likelies - I would suggest that you account for low acceptance rates when you categorize.

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Similarly, even for an impressive applicant, I don’t think I’d categorize Smith as a Likely

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Gotcha! I’d been using SCOIR scattergrams mostly but I think I went a little too far with it and will adjust accordingly. Thanks!

The thing with tools like SCIOR or Naviance is they don’t differentiate between how a student applied or if they were accepted into an alternative pathway. My S21 was accepted to Northeastern through their NU.in program. On the school Naviance, that is an acceptance. My S23 was accepted to the Northeastern Boston campus, but he applied Early Decision which has a MUCH higher acceptance rate.

I can see both their plot points on the school Naviance as bright green checkmarks. Students at their high school now will see the GPA and test scores, but they won’t see HOW they got in. They won’t even see if they applied Test Optional.

It’s a good tool, but it has its limitations.

My SCOIR actually differentiates between ED I/II, EA, and RD. But the pathway info is good to have, thanks!

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Updated (again) list:
Safety: Clark, Wheaton, UMass Amherst

Likely: Kenyon, Mount Holyoke

Target: Smith

Reach: Brown, Northeastern, Northwestern, Tufts, UChicago, Vassar, WashU, Wesleyan

Possible additions:
Likely: Brandeis, U of Rochester, William & Mary (strongly recommended for me in particular by Latin teacher)

Target: Emory, Middlebury (legacy)

Reach: Amherst*, CMU, Cornell, Harvard, Johns Hopkins, Stanford, Swarthmore*, UPenn*, Vanderbilt, Wellesley, Williams*, Yale

*Unhooked students from my school tend not to get in, no matter how high their stats are.

Are there any that y’all think I would particularly like? Any that have red flags?

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Judging by the students from my kids’ small private school, I would think you have a good shot at Northeastern. Applying EA might get you NU.In rather than the Boston campus, but I don’t happen to think NU.in is a bad option.

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Which campuses have you visited (including of schools that you’ve eliminated)?

Also, if you know any students at these schools, I would reach out to them about class sizes. For instance, part of Northeastern’s rise through the ranks was because it limited many of its classes to 19 students. Great, small classes! Except that Northeastern then classified each discussion section of a class as a separate class. So some universities might have a lecture of 160 students that meets 2 times a week and then have 8 discussion sections that meet once per week. Many universities will count that as 1 class of more than 50+, but Northeastern counts that as 9 classes, 1 with 50+ and 8 with 20 or less. So it might be good to talk to students at the universities you’re interested in to see whether the percentages reported end up feeling like the lived experience of students.

As you’ve repeatedly talked about wanting small classes, that’s an area that makes me feel iffier at some of your reach schools. But talk to the people in your prospective majors, people you know, etc, to get a better feel for this.

Have you been receiving any accommodations at school or for testing? If so, I would also investigate what students think about the services the universities provide in this respect.

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Although I just mentioned how there are some universities which have been known to define “classes” in a way that is different than the norm, I do still think that looking at class sizes can be a useful measure for someone who wants small classes. I used this aggregator to pull the class sizes (except for Wheaton for which I used USNWR to eliminate confusion with the one in IL). This list is sorted by the percentage of classes with 50+ students, going from smallest to largest. I also included the student/faculty ratio, as that’s another number that can be defined differently by different institutions, but it can be helpful when looking at other colleges’ to see if the numbers make sense (i.e. the greater percentage of small classes, the smaller the ratio would be expected, or vice versa).

Additionally, some schools like UMass-Amherst have honors colleges which can offer smaller classes in place of larger ones. But other universities on this list do not have honors colleges, with the premise that all of their students are worthy to be considered honors students. So if a college without an honors college has a relatively higher percentage of classes with more than 50 students, that’s something I would definitely keep in mind.

University On List? Student/ Faculty Ratio % Classes Under 20 % Classes 20-49 % classes 50+
Kenyon Yes 9:01 72% 28% 0%
Wellesley Maybe 7:01 66% 34% 0%
Mount Holyoke Yes 10:01 76% 23% 1%
Vassar Yes 8:01 67% 33% 1%
Wheaton Yes 11:01 64% 35% 1%
Clark Yes 9:01 60% 38% 2%
Wesleyan Yes 8:01 71% 27% 2%
Middlebury Maybe 9:01 64% 34% 3%
Swarthmore Maybe 8:01 66% 31% 3%
Williams Maybe 7:01 74% 24% 3%
Amherst Maybe 7:01 63% 33% 4%
Smith Yes 7:01 70% 26% 4%
Johns Hopkins Maybe 7:01 78% 16% 5%
Northwestern Yes 6:01 76% 18% 6%
Uchicago Yes 5:01 78% 16% 6%
Northeastern Yes 15:01 67% 27% 7%
William & Mary Maybe 13:01 46% 47% 7%
Tufts Yes 10:01 63% 29% 8%
U. of Rochester Maybe 9:01 80% 13% 8%
WashU Yes 7:01 66% 25% 8%
Yale Maybe 6:01 77% 15% 8%
Brandeis Maybe 10:01 61% 31% 9%
Upenn Maybe 7:01 68% 23% 9%
CMU Maybe 6:01 69% 20% 10%
Vanderbilt Maybe 8:01 60% 30% 10%
Harvard Maybe 7:01 71% 18% 11%
Brown Yes 6:01 69% 19% 12%
Emory Maybe 9:01 57% 31% 12%
Stanford Maybe 5:01 68% 20% 12%
Umass-Amherst Yes 18:01 46% 36% 18%
Cornell Maybe 9:01 55% 26% 19%

In trying to narrow down the list, I’d be likelier to include/keep colleges toward the top of the list, and prune more from colleges near the bottom of the list, IF small class sizes are truly a very important factor for you.

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Maybe it’s just me, but I don’t feel like Stanford fits the vibe of the rest of your list.
It’s West Coast (not your preference) and, although an excellent school across the board, my impression is that it tends to appeal more to students whose career interests lean more toward STEM, tech, and start-up companies.

If you want to pare one of the uber-selective schools off your list to make the applications more manageable, that’s one I would drop.

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