Yes, Rice is also one of my top choices!
Iâm donât think Iâm changing my ED from Brown. I truly donât think I stand a chance at Stanford or Cornell even with ED, due to the insane competition for their engineering program. My extracurriculars and awards donât match what seems to be the standard for these schools. While Brownâs engineering is definitely not as good as the schools you mentioned, it still is decent and I loved the atmosphere and people at Brown during my time there.
However, when the time comes for Regular Decision, UCB, CMU, UMich, and GT that you listed are most definitely gonna be my top priorities. UCB and UMich seem to accept a lot of kids from my school so I like my chances (although theyâre still reaches).
Why wouldnât you recommend WashU? Iâm very intrigued by it: some of my friends at WashU love it and some absolutely despise it.
Itâs not hard to get from Portland to St. Louis - but if you take a trip, you should go see other schools - in Chicago or Nashville, etc. Southwest has a non-stop and any other airline has a one stop. WUSTL is on the smaller side, is gorgeous, contained and a few miles outside of St. Louis. The dorms are outstanding. Thatâs my opinionâŠwhat is yours?
There are brilliant engineers at most public schools - those that can get into much better schools than they go. But a Purdue, where youâd be a match, will be much cheaper than Northeastern/BU and is better reputed, etc. So you can get both. Similarly Florida would be a safety and itâs outstanding.
The entire âtop 20â thing is silly in that - rankings are made up by people who take some data, craft it, and market it. You should find the right school for you.
btw - you are solely looking at the US News rankings which are based on PHD colleges. You are missing great schools. Rose Hulman - #1 non PHD. Cal Poly SLO. WPI and RPI are great and often have outcomes better than some of your âreachesâ.
As an example, the top 3 here stand up to any school you list above:
Your list is varied in size, geography, and so many other things. Iâd focus on what you wantâŠnot what mom and dad wantâŠand go from there.
2021 Best Undergraduate Engineering Programs (No Doctorate) | US News Rankings
From what Iâve seen Iâve loved WashU, but then again Iâve never visited campus. Iâm kinda worried about weekends and stuff, cause I like to go out a lot and I donât know much about STL. Itâs nice to hear the dorms are outstanding; Brownâs dorms were pretty old (at least the ones I stayed in).
Purdue was on my list but I dropped it in favor of some more reaches/matches. I donât really want to live in Indiana, not that itâs a bad state or anything, just I feel the culture shock would really hit me.
Money truly isnât a top concern for us, it would just be nice to have some extra money.
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St. Louis is an AWESOME city - from a great zoo to the City Museum to the Arch and great baseball team. Any of these high end colleges are going to have enough going onâŠ
Purdue is awesome, btw - iâm sad my son turned it down, with scholarship to go to Alabama - but Alabama - youâll find on no ranking - is bringing in some of the best and brightest. They give big money, their Honors Dorm is really nice (but too quiet) and their engineering quad and facilities ranking with any in the country.
Take time to narrow down via virtual tours - and set up a trip at some point and hit some of your top schools. Focus on ones for visits, most especially, that require demonstrated interest - WUSTL is one in fact that doesâŠan elite private school that wants to be loved back.
btw - do you know what you want to study specifically in engineering - like aerospace or materials or industrial - because that should impact your choice too. Have you looked at RHIT (if you donât like Indiana and you want a life, not for you), CWRU (check it out) and Cal Poly SLO?
When you say your parents want top 20 - and many Asian students say that - are they looking at top 20 on US News for total (I assume) or top 20 engineering - which is very different? Schools like Rose Hulman, theyâve probably not heard ofâŠor Olin.
I donât see Va Tech or Wisconsin or Texas A&M on your list. They are top 20 (US News).
I do see UCSD, UCB, USC, Brown, NortheasternâŠthese are not top 20 engineeringâŠso yes, Brown and USC are top 20âŠbut thatâs overall, not in these disciplines.
The point is - take rankings with a grain of salt. If you want to mix poli sci with it, you can do so at any school (may take longer) or you can look to a LAC that offers engineering - a Bucknell for example, or Lafayette.
OK - good luck.
2021 Best Undergraduate Engineering Programs (Doctorate) p 2 | US News Rankings
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I plan to major in Electrical Engineering and perhaps pursue a PoliSci or CompSci minor.
I totally forgot to put Case Western. I was thinking about EAâing there but I felt I should put a likely (SCU) on my EA just to make sure I get into a college.
Iâm a little worried about Cleveland. I went there when I was a lot younger (like ten years ago) and I hated it, but it could have changed a lot during the past years. CWRU is currently on my list on the cusp of match/reach and Iâm planning to apply during RD.
I have one friend who went to Cal Poly and she hates it and wants to transfer, but sheâs not in engineering so I donât know too much about it. Might take a look into it later during the application process.
Could you share the link to this info about Cornell? Thanks!
Sure, itâs under the student enrollment section, and you can tweak the settings to find first-year freshmen enrollment for each college:
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Your friend is not you. Learn about a school for yourself.
CWRU is a great school as is RPI and WPI. TOP 20. Not close. CWRU #42 on niche.
Is it a great school. Yep. Should you be proud to get in. Yep. Just trying to show forget the running.
Cleveland has a neat downtown with baseball and football and the Rock Hall. Itâs a few miles from downtown and surrounded by great Italian food. My son did not like the campus. But itâs a great school.
Obviously it takes time to apply so donât over do it. Some would say 8-10. I like 20 but Iâm including schools that have no extra work in that Washington University in St. Louis
Hereâs an interesting list to peruse.
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I donât think Rice is meaningfully less selective than Cornell. Median GPA and test scores are actually higher at Rice, and the acceptance rates are virtually identical. (10.9% vs 11.1% this past year, but Riceâs admit rate dropped as low as 8% before they expanded their entering class.) Both schools fill more than 40% of their incoming class in the ED cycle, fwiw.
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You apply directly to the engineering school at Cornell; its stats and acceptance rate are more competitive than those for the entire university.
Just wanted to add that, along with not considering legacy and being test-blind, UC Berkeley is also reducing the percentage of out-of-state applicants it admits because of political pressure from California residents who cannot get accepted to their own state institutions.
So, yeah, itâs a reach. But your qualifications are excellent so I still think you have a decent shot at every one of your reach schools.
I think youâll definitely make the first cut in the Brown admissions process. You have an impressive record with multiple strengths. Iâd expect you to be in the âwe would like to accept this studentâ pile. However, a majority of the applications in that pile still get rejected, and you have no single attribute that would make you a student they could not turn down. So basically it could go either way.
I think itâs fine to talk about your positive experience at the Brown summer program, as long as you donât lean on it too heavily or make it sound as if you think attending is a feather in your cap, because it isnât that.
No matter where you go, adding a substantial minor or dual major to an ABET engineering program is going to be difficult to accomplish in four years, just because of the extensive requirements for the engineering degree. You do have a head start on a lot of requirements, so that may help you to carve out time. CS tends to be a little more combinable than engineering - for example, look at Northeasternâs CS+poli sci combined major: Computer Science and Political Science, BS < Northeastern University Thereâs no equivalent âEE + poli sciâ program, because they canât pare back the requirements for engineering to make that work, the way they can with CS.
There are programs like Lehighâs âIDEASâ IDEAS: Integrated Degree in Engineering, Arts and Sciences < Lehigh University where you can either do a 4-year dual degree with a non-ABET engineering major, or add extra time to meet the ABET requirements. (Lehigh also considers Asian students as URM, so Iâd consider it practically a safety for you.) CMUâs EPP programs could be a good fit Undergraduate Studies - Engineering and Public Policy - College of Engineering - Carnegie Mellon University (And that info highlights the fact that a 5-year BS+Masters could be another way to go, rather than blended all-undergrad program.) UMich strikes me as a good fit, and USC is cross-disciplinary-friendly (plus the potential NMF merit is nice!).
Have you thought about Harvey Mudd? Great social sciences at the 5Câs - good place for the STEM Renaissance Person. 
I think youâre going to have your choice of top-notch programs if Brown ED doesnât pan out, and thereâs a decent chance that it will. Good luck!
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True, but the difference in admit rate between engineering and A&S is not large. All Iâm saying is, an individual student is roughly as likely to be accepted at Cornell and denied at Rice, as the reverse. Individual fit factors are more likely to make the difference than the overall competitiveness differences between the two schools, IMHO.
Yes! I read about that a couple of hours ago. Although I am admittedly salty, I recognize that, well, California has a lot of really talented kids and not enough room to admit a lot of out-of-state applicants. I moved UCB to a reach and UCSD to a match, although Iâm honestly thinking of moving UCSD to a reach just because I donât know the extent to which the UCs will be focusing on in-state applicants. I do believe I have a good chance of getting into at least one UC that I want to go to, however.
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If you love Brown, you love Brown. Since your love for the school seems to be based on your personal experience, then sticking with it for ED makes sense. However, I still recommend that you visit a couple more of the colleges on your list with the lower admission rates (mainly Cornell and Northwestern) before you apply.
Just keep in mind that Brown is still a reach, so âspread the loveâ, so that you will still attend a place that you love, if you are not accepted to Brown.
While it is pretty strong in the life sciences, WashU is not nearly as strong in engineering as any of the other colleges on your list with equivalent admission rates. However, you may as well check it out, to get a feel for yourself.
cjeong: âI moved UCB to a reach and UCSD to a matchâ
Sounds about right. One thing about UCSD (I mentored a rejected Brown applicant who went there), as well as some other colleges is that admission into upper-level courses needed for a particular engineering specialty may not be not a given, and can even be outright denied if grades slip. Not all of UCSDâs engineering programs are ABET accredited⊠BUT I donât personally know of any engineer (including me) thatâs been involved in a hiring decision who cared about ABET anyway. A retired engineering VP friend of mine who did lots of hiring over a forty-year period told me heâd never heard of ABET.
Brown is a reach for anyone. Most of the applicants I interview arenât admitted, including plenty with records like yours. So you give it a shot and hope for the bestâŠ
Long ago I turned down Cornell (great engineering school) for Brown. I picked Brown because it gave me the opportunity to do pretty much whatever I wanted. That ended up including some graduate Engin/Math courses starting junior year. At a UC, for example, I would have needed to be a Senior and obtained special permission. Plus I liked the pictures I had seen of the campus (couldnât afford a visit).
Not many years into my engineering employment at a 3000-engineer company, my boss told me that the talk around the water cooler was Iâd be VP of engineering someday [left the company long before that prognostication might have come to pass]. My future wife turned down MIT (twice) for Brown, the first time being her junior year of HS when they invited her to campus and proposed she skip her senior year of HS and just start there. Instead, she chose Brown and an engineering concentration (though more like stealth CS, where her heart was). She subsequently hired into a CAD development department which until then had only hired people with Masters degrees from Cal Tech. Ended up running the group. So college is what you personally make of it. There is no âone size fits allâ, and certainly no âbestâ, other than (perhaps) for each individual.
If you look under the hood as how the more celebrated college rankings are constructed, thereâs not much to see (especially true for undergrad). Someone ranked Brown #1 for undergrad instruction. Does that mean everyone (who can) should go to Brown because then they will receive the best undergraduate instruction [for them]? It doesnât work that way.
Ok, enough words for now. Iâll start on a Part 2, offering some thoughts on your questions regarding the application.
Interesting you say that about ABET. I wonder if itâs generational.
When my son, who goes to BAMA, applied for jobs last Summer, most said must come from an ABET accredited school.
Washington & Lee is not ABET accredited and thatâs purposely done. They also have outstanding placement. And when I direct people there on the CC, I always get the - donât send anyone there, theyâre not ABET.
Unrelated to the question but of interest to me from your anecdote.
Your advice on no one size fits all is exactly right. Too many are chasing rankings or otherwise and have no idea what a school even has to offer - and even when they find that right school, they have a roommate issue or donât understand a prof or what not. Nothing is perfect but itâs all about learning about the subjects and about life.
âInteresting you say that about ABET. I wonder if itâs generational.â
My VP friend (in Southern California) was hiring and supervising hiringâs until just over a year ago. I also worked in Southern California. Maybe regional? In any event, Iâm taking note of
âWhen my son, who goes to BAMA, applied for jobs last Summer, most said must come from an ABET accredited school.â
and will be more cautious regarding such advice. Perhaps for example there was a lawsuit where an engineerâs competency/credentials were in play, and as a result many companies are looking to contain their legal exposure in this regard? Donât know, but one way or the other this points to a strength of CC: Students (and others) get to hear from a wide range of people who have had varying experiences.
âa roommate issueâ
By which I assume you are referring to my computer-assigned freshman roommate at Brown, who was from Philly and wanted our dorm room windows open even in the dead of winter. This poor SoCal lad would grab most of the clothes from his closet and pile them on the bed for warmth at night. [A pointless anecdote, other than to prime HS students for how not everything will be fairy-tale in your college-life experience⊠but you will grow from it.]
âdonât understand a profâ
(Please, just one moreâŠ) Senior year; a grad course in Solid Mechanics. The prof was a Russian who had grown so old that the USSR figured there was no harm in letting him immigrate to the US. They were correct. He would write 1. on the blackboard, followed s-l-o-w-l-y by an equation, then after great deliberation manage to write 1. again (vs 2.), followed by the next equation. I learned some plasticity theory, but not a whole lot. [A pointless anecdote, other than to prime HS students for how you might be stuck with some crummy profs at your college⊠but you will graduate from it.]
Iâm no essay expert, and yours are sight-unseen, but Iâm guessing you are overestimating how they will score. The âjoyâ one might be about on-target? Just stay authentic, rather than trying to please an unseen AO. And donât worry about who else might be writing on a topic, since itâs more about the quality and organization of the thoughts than the subject. In many college classes everyone has exactly the same topic, and yet there will be A+ papers and C- papers.
In concert with what CiaraFin said, I would for the most part stay away from âme & Brownâ subjects for your submissions if a topic is open-ended. Everyone likes the campus (at least when itâs not raining). Everyone likes the Open Curriculum. So tell Admissions something they donât know. You can certainly work the OC into whatever you have to say about your academic plans â synergies with the OC and whatever â but things along the lines of âwhy I like Brownâ donât give them any reason to pick you over someone else, especially for ED.
âThe essay itself isnât really a retelling of what I did at Brown but more describing the symbolism of a certain room at Brown and how that room transformed me.â Iâve been in a lot of rooms at Brown, and none of them transformed me ; ) But I also remember what it was like to be 18, when all sorts of things seemed deeply significant. Be careful here, because you may be overreaching for âsignificanceâ without realizing it, and come off as shallow/immature to the AO. Or not â your call of course.
All of those ECâs present a bit of an organizing problem. I donât know if the current app is structured or free-form as to listing ECâs etc, but in some fashion you want to emphasize the ones most relevant to your academic plans. So for Engin/Political Science, politics and STEM-type stuff goes at the top and music goes at/near the bottom.
Give it some thought regarding a Music supplement. Supplements generally go directly to the relevant academic department, receiving a numerical score and thatâs all that Admissions sees. You will be âcompetingâ against Music concentrators, for example, so unless the submission is really good, your possibly low score might not help your application. If the point was just to show them youâre well-rounded, they already get that.
Iâm looking for my chances specifically for Brown ED <
Even part way into the process this fall, Brown Admissions still wonât know. So certainly no one here does. Thousands of applications will be sifted through, and one of the AOâs assigned to read yours will either select it as one to make a case for when they meet as a group, or not. You have plenty of positives, so youâre in the running, but so do many others. As I said in an earlier post âMost of the applicants I interview arenât admitted, including plenty with records like yours. So you give it a shot and hope for the bestâŠâ
Cleaning up a few loose ends from the thread:
âI know many people who have applied to Brown, engineering or otherwise, and most of the people who got in had connectionsâ
âBeing a non-diverse or legacy engineering student will hurt a lot more at Brown than almost any other ED school on this list.â
Iâm not looking back at whatever the referenced list was â schools Iâm probably not that familiar with anyway â and just speaking about Brown as someone whoâs been involved in one way or another with thousands of applicants: Quite possibly true as to non-diverse, but not so regarding non-legacy. Every year for several years, I had before me a spreadsheet of over 500 local applicants, including the legacy status of each one. I saw who got in and who didnât, and sometimes did my own informal âlegacy analysisâ on that yearâs data.
Iâve interviewed âperfectâ legacies who were denied, even double-legs, and that theme runs all the way to parents at the top of Brownâs power structure and to the wealthy. Brownâs official position on legacy is the usual âa tie-breaker at bestâ, and thatâs been my observation (the âat bestâ part).
âMy math teacher (who gave me the department award) is a Brown alum, so maybe that could help? Iâm not sure.â No.
âI think it better for students to focus on fit (OP has spent time at Brown and constructed a thoughtful application), rather than trying to employ game theory informed by the speculative and anecdotal experiences of strangers.â Yes (says the stranger : )
âBrownâs dorms were pretty old (at least the ones I stayed in).â Most date from the 1950âs (a few from the the 1800âs), and are sequentially refreshed from time to time. Also a few that are only a decade or so old. So it depends on where you end up. I was soon more interested in the quality of people in the dorms than the dorms.
âadding a substantial minor or dual major to an ABET engineering program is going to be difficult to accomplish in four years, just because of the extensive requirements for the engineering degreeâ Even more so at Brown, to the extent that four courses is the normal load vs five. Yet people do it all the time, most notably pre-meds who major in something completely unrelated.
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