Chance me for ED UChicago, EA Cornell, UCBerkeley(please)

Chance Me / Match Me!
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hello,
Demographics: white, female
US Citizen
State/Location of residency: California (Bay Area)
Type of high school: Private, catholic, all girls
Other special factors: n/a

Intended Major(s): most likely english, maybe minor in phosophy

GPA, Rank, and Test Scores:
Unweighted HS GPA: 4.0
Weighted HS GPA: 4.66
Class Rank: n/a
ACT/SAT Scores: 1480 on SAT (800 R+W, 680 Math), I intend to retake it and then hopefully superscore (have been studying for math and taking practice tests and have been able to get around 1540, so with some luck hopefully I’ll get that??)

Coursework
Sophomore year: AP World History (5)
Junior Year: AP Calc AB (4, unexpected), AP Lang (4, lower than I expected), AP US History (5), AP Biology (4)
Senior year: AP Lit, AP Environmental Science, AP Gov, AP French
Self-studied AP Comp Gov (5)
Greek language B2 certification
Journalism elective

Awards:
California Scholarship Federation
National Honor Society
School-level academic scholarship

Extracurriculars:
President of Greek cultural club at school
intern on local political campaign
volunteer in local politics and with local mutual aid network
senior editor for polyphony lit
online editor in chief for school newspaper
editor for a youth literary mag
greek school from kindergarten to 10th grade (reached B2 certification)
pit orchestra for musical during freshman and sophomore year (musical cancelled in junior year due to covid, hopefully will participate again this year)
secretary of teen advisory board at local bookstore

Essays/LORs/Other:
Letter of rec 1: English teacher (this year and last year). I think she knows me more than most other students, although not super well. We have met one on one a few times to talk about essays and she has always been very encouraging to me. I suppose 7/10?
Letter of rec 2: AP WH teacher, havent had her since sophomore year but I loved her class and I think she liked me (she once ran into my mother, recognized her, and told her that i had a “beautiful mind”) 8/10 maybe?

essays are a bit rough right now, but I already had one person look over them who said that theyre looking good for first drafts. I am a fairly experienced writer, so at least im not worried in terms of craft. I dont expect them to be masterpieces, though

Schools
(List of colleges by your initial chance estimate; designate if applying ED/EA/RD; if a scholarship is necessary for affordability, indicate that you are aiming for a scholarship and use the scholarship chance to estimate it into the appropriate group below)

  • Likely
    Kenyon
    Macalester
    Denison
  • Match
    NYU
    Boston University
    Carleton
    Northeastern? (not sure if this is match or reach)
  • Reach
    Cornell (EA)
    UChicago (ED)
    UC Berkeley
    UMichUMich
    JHU
    CMU
    Bowdoin

this list is far from fully refined (I’m having a really hard time narrowing down schools). If anyone has any advice for whether I should apply EA or if I should add any schools/take any off the list it would be much appreciated.

Thank you for reading!

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Congrats on your accomplishments - very impressive.

Agree with your likely.

I think BU / Northeastern depend on ED, etc. I’d expect you in - even with current tests - but would not be surprised if not. NYU another.

Reach - agree with all but I’d bucket Bowdoin and Cornell together. I’ll let someone else answer UC because some folks have tables with UC GPAs that will give you odds.

So I think you’ve done pretty good - and your likelies give you wiggle room for sure. But I would add a definite - because likely is not definite and while I think you’d get into all three likely, they’re not a definite. For example, an ASU or for huge merit, U of A…you can get in eithers Honors…as a worst case, would be nice. Or something similar…just an almost guarantee…is what i’m saying.

So answer a few questions:

  1. Major or major type (social science, humanities, engineering, etc.).

  2. Any cost issues or desires - like you can only spend x $ or you only want to? If you think you might qualify for aid (and even if you don’t), go on Cornell or Bowdoins Net Price Calculator and see what it says - if you’ll get aid or not.

  3. It’s an eclectic mix of schools - huge, midsize, and small LACs. Are you simply seeking “prestige”?

Thanks

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hi! thank you for your response

  1. intended major type is humanities, possibly majoring in english
  2. regarding cost i still need to figure out with my parents, but based on what they’ve said so far, there are no particular cost issues (within reason, obviously) although financial aid would be beneficial (not sure if i would qualify, need to get all of the information)
  3. the reason why the school list is such a mess is that these were all schools that people recommended that i apply to and i’ve only properly researched a few of them yet (so its quite tentative). uchicago is my dream school though, because of the academics and the environment there. cornell is also on there because of the academics. northeastern, i like the idea of the co-op program and i’ve heard a lot about it (my dad went to grad school there and has told me a lot). with colleges, the top criterion is honestly academics that will be challenging and thought provoking. anyway, i hope that explains why its such a mix?
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Many schools have co-op programs although it’s often attributed to engineering, etc.

Tell you what - what do YOU like - in regards to size, weather, sports, urban/rural, greek life, etc. Any particular geographies?

Let’s find what you want.

Here’s another thing - let’s say you won’t qualify for aid. I’m just throwing out hypotheticals - would your parents prefer you to go to BU/Northeastern at $80K a year. Or UCSB at half that. Yes, UCSB is not on your list - but what I’m getting at is maybe other UCs that are less of a reach would fit.

Or University of Arizona, with $35K merit at $20K and you can join the Honors College.

So you’re majoring in a humanity, you likely need to go to grad school which cost a lot more, and if you don’t want to go to grad school, what type of job will you get with a Humanities degree?

In other words, if you can go for $20K a year, is it worth paying $80K - i.e. $240K more over 4 years. Or if you can go for $160K (to a UC), is it worth spending $160K more.

This is what you should talk to your folks about - because should you get into Cornell, Michigan, JHU, CMU, Bowdoin, etc. you’re paying full freight unless the net price calculator says otherwise. And a school like CMU will be fine - but humanities are not why people go there, etc.

You score big aid when you go to a school where the academic profile is beneath yours. Let’s say you come back and say - I’d like a liberal arts college, but yes, I need a discount. Then you apply, not to Bowdoin, but to a second tier school like Willamette or Kalamazoo - great schools that will discount you.

It’s just my opinion and take it for what it’s worth - earnings wise - name your state school engineer is going to earn more than any school on your list English…so for me, and I’m not you, I’m chasing cost - as many do - and going to a public flagship with great tuition Honors College - ASU Barrett is often rated #1, U of AZ is unreal, Florid State has dirt cheap tuition, U of South Carolina another top rated, Miami of Ohio may work.

These are just thoughts I have - but tell me what you want - from the questions I asked above in the second paragraph.

You’re off to a great start and you’ve put yourself in a wonderful position. But let’s get you focused to meet your needs if that’s ok.

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Congratulations on being a competitive applicant and hopefully you realize that UC Berkeley is test blind this admission cycle.

I can list all the statistical admission data available but the reality is that UCB should be considered a Reach regardless of your qualifications but a Reachable Reach.

2021 admit data is not yet available so I will list the 2020 data.
Based on your unweighted GPA, I would say your UC capped weighted is at least 4.2 or higher. The UC’s use 3 GPA’s so it is best to know those numbers. GPA Calculator for the University of California – RogerHub

2020 Freshman admit rates for UC GPA of 4.20 or above capped weighted and not major specific:
UCB: 37%

2020 UC capped weighted GPA averages along with 25th-75th percentile range:
UCB: 4.22 (4.13-4.30)

2021 Admission Rates for California Applicants:
UC Berkeley: 16.8%

UCB application review criteria:
BERKELEY
*

  • Very important: Academic GPA, Application essay, Rigor of secondary school record
  • Important: Extracurricular activities, Volunteer work, Work experience
  • Considered: Character/personal qualities, First generation college student, State residency, AP/IBLH exam scores
  • Note: Thorough review of academic performance; likely contribution to intellectual and cultural vitality of the campus; diversity in personal background and experience; demonstrated qualities in leadership, motivation, concern for others and community; non-academic achievement in the performing arts, athletics or employment; demonstrated interest in major.
  • LOR’s by invitation only as of 2017

Note that L&S admits students as undeclared; admission to capped majors (e.g. CS, economics, psychology, ORMS, statistics, art practice, and a few others) is by college GPA in prerequisite courses (and portfolio for art practice) after attending for a few semesters.

Best of luck.

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You need to talk to your parents about what “within reason” means. You and your parents should check the net price calculators for each college to get an idea of what each college’s financial aid may look like.

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Your list includes:

LACs, in relatively out of the way places (Kenyon, Denison, Carleton, Bowdoin) and one in a mid-sized city (Macalester).

They will have a very very different lived experience from JHU, UCB, NYU and BU, which are all large universities in urban environments…

…which will be different again to UChic which is medium sized and urban and has a strong Core requirement…

…which would be different again to CMU, Cornell and UMi, which are large/largeish universities in medium sized cities/towns.

More than that, though, the personalities of these schools are so very different. Bowdoin and Cornell are (imo) strikingly different campus cultures. To me, your ECs & post read more UPenn than Cornell. From a campus culture pov I see your list breaking into a JHU/UChic/Cornell/CMU pile, a Kenyon/Mac/Carleton/Denison/maybe BU pile, and a UMi/Bowdoin pile. Again that’s just another way to slice the cake: you have to decide what variables are most important to you.

I think you would be well served to back all the way up, scratch ALL of them (yes, even your “dream” school- I’m not sold that you know as much about your dream school as you think), and start with a blank slate. Go back to first principles: what are the most important things you want from your college experience? some possible factors are

  • academic intensity (not the same thing as academic quality! check out Swarthmore for an example of academic intensity as a campus culture). It might help to think of it in work/life balance terms: what do you want?

  • community experience: do you want a more extroverted / sporty / school spirit environment or a more do your own thing / find your people experience? how much- and what kind- of diversity do want?

  • specific programs- are there things that you want to have available (academic programs (eg Chicago/Columbia core or the Kenyon Review Program)/ departments / cultural / religious / activity / academic / vocational)?

  • cost:benefit- what is your first choice of your instate options, what is the cost of that option, and how much better does another choice have to be to make it worth paying more? how much more is it worth paying (this is what @tsbna44 was getting at)

Then figure out what colleges that are good for those elements. Build as close as possible from the bottom up.

Every single college on your current list meets that criterion in spades- as do easily 100 other colleges.

ps, your school may not rank but dollars to doughnuts you know roughly where you stand in your class- are you in the top tier?

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Academic intensity is also affected by the minimum rigor level of courses required to graduate (including general education requirements).

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Someone I know with very similar stats but very slightly lower SAT and one B+ was accepted to both BU and NEU (regular decision). However, both would have been full pay and were not affordable. Given the quality of the various Universities of California plus the fact that you are in-state I do not see the point of flying to Boston to be full pay at either university.

One daughter was very interested in Bowdoin so we visited twice and checked the little scatter plots of others who had applied from her high school. Acceptance seemed to be very highly unpredictable. The NPC put it as unaffordable. I think that “reach” is the right category for Bowdoin.

Given the high quality of the Universities of California plus being in-state in California plus being a potential English major I would add more of the public universities in California to your list. You might also want to look at some WUE schools. You should avoid debt for your bachelor’s degree if you reasonably can.

You have very big schools, very small schools, schools in a warm climate, and schools in the “cold and snow” zone on your list. You have schools near home and on the opposite side of the country. What do you want in a university?

If you do attend Bowdoin, how do you intend to get here? It is a bit of a drive from Boston Logan Airport. Would you take two flights to get to Portland Maine (including in the winter in snow) and take a cab from there?

You should find out how your parents would feel about spending $320,000 over four years for your education, and whether this would wipe out any money that could have gone for a master’s degree. If you major in English, do not expect to get a high paying job right after graduation and be aware that you might not be done with your education when you get your bachelor’s degree.

I agree that you should run the NPC for each school on your list (with the possible exception of in-state public universities if you are fine with the full in-state cost).

I agree with the comment that “many schools have coop programs”. My daughters did quite well with coops from universities that are not known for their coop programs. Internships and coops are valuable, but are offered at many if not all universities.

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Double check me, but I don’t think Cornell has EA…

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Good catch, @momtofour12 - Cornell is ED not EA

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Northeastern is the biggest outlier here. I understand the hypothetical appeal of co-op, but I really think it’s the more pre-professional majors that are getting the really interesting co-op placements for the most part. For engineering, CS, business, health professions, journalism, it is great. But for humanities… I heard a lot about kids doing their co-op placements working in the admissions office or similar. It’s not a given that you get something fabulous just because you spend $$$ for NEU. And while you’re there, you will be in the minority as a life-of-the-mind type humanities student. I would think Tufts would be more aligned with the type of school you seem to prefer.

CMU also has a more pre-professional vibe than you might glean from their online presence. Great school but not sure how it beats out many many other possibilities for a spot on your list.

BU and NYU are urban and expensive. I went to BU and had some great experiences there. But would I pay double to go to either of these schools over UCB or UCLA in-state? JMHO but I don’t see enough value-added. Although it doesn’t hurt to apply and see what kind of merit you might get.

I assume you’re applying to more UC’s than just Berkeley. You might really like the College of Creative Studies at UCSB. There’s an additional layer of application in addition to the UC app, but it can be a best-of-both-worlds experience with aspects of a LAC, a “grad school for undergrads” philosophy, and the resources of a large UC. You can still minor or double-major outside of CCS. Writing & Literature | UCSB College of Creative Studies

Agreed that if you like UChicago, you might also look at Swarthmore. The other Quaker Consortium schools too - Bryn Mawr and Haverford. If you want the NYC experience, how about Barnard, or Fordham (apply EA - merit likely).

If you like Carleton and Kenyon, consider Grinnell and Oberlin. If you like Bowdoin, there are so many LAC’s in the Northeast - Colby and Bates, Hamilton, Middlebury, Vassar, Skidmore, Conn College, Williams, Amherst, Smith, Mt. Holyoke, Wesleyan…

Are you considering the Claremont Colleges? Maybe you don’t want SoCal in general…
You also don’t seem to be looking in the Southeast, but Emory could be worth a look.

My sense is that it may be tough to crack the tippy-top schools that expect STEM rigor even from their humanities-oriented candidates, but many excellent schools like “pointy” humanities students. Make sure to show lots of interest at schools like Carleton, Macalester, and Kenyon - get in touch with your admissions rep, ask questions, etc.

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Based on your tentative intended major, these sites may help you refine your choices:

Note that while the sites on one level pertain to creative writing, the included descriptions discuss the literary attributes of these schools in general.

This site also may be of interest:

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If you live in CA, you have a lot of affordable prestigious options, which would be more than enough to make an expensive school like JHU not worth the money. I would focus on staying in-state. If a lay-off or business failure happens (and it does), you could finish a degree on student loans if you’re in-state. If you’re at a private school, you’re toast!

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The OP may be assured that the University of Chicago appears in this Forbes article on colleges worth their expenses:

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