Chance me for T20s - Asian male, Molecular Biology major, Pre-med track

Chance Me / Match Me!
1

Demographics

  • US Citizen
  • NJ resident
  • Male, Asian
  • Public High School
  • No special factors

Intended Major(s)
Molecular Biology, Pre-med

GPA, Rank, and Test Scores

  • Unweighted HS GPA: 4.09/4.33(Our system counts A+ as a 4.33)
  • Weighted HS GPA (incl. weighting system): 5.63/6.33
  • Class Rank: School doesn’t rank, but I know I’m about 2-4% out of 637 students
  • ACT/SAT Scores: 1550 SAT, 780 english, 770 math

Coursework
Currently taking AP Biology, AP Chemistry, AP Lit, and AP Statistics
AP Physics 1: 4, AP Lang: 5, AP US History: 5, AP World History: 5, AP Calc BC: 5(AB subscore:5)

Awards
Placed 2nd twice in International Conferences through HOSA
^Won first in state/regional conferences both years as well
All-state viola player
National Latin Exam Silver/Bronze Medalist

Extracurriculars(My ECs mostly fall under music and healthcare)

  • Certified EMT(Have ridden for a little over 300 hours)
  • Started a music initiative to support a local homeless shelter(I organize monthly benefit concerts with a group of peers to raise food/water/money donations and have raised 1500 pounds of food across about 14 months)
  • Doing research isolating, sequencing, and analyzing a protein-coding gene from Landoltia punctata. Will be publishing the sequenced gene in GenBank this March-May
  • Orchestra Council President, First Chair in Chamber Orchestra
  • Helped organize and operated the hotline for a Vaccine Volunteer group that helped 1400 residents of my town secure vaccine appointments when they were in high demand
  • President of a volunteer group that plays music weekly at a rehabilitation center
  • Organize monthly concert venues and coordinate with nursing homes, veteran homes, and long-term care facilities for a Junior Music Club organization I am a part of.
  • HOSA Club, leadership roles within committees, organize SMAC cancer walk
  • Varsity Volleyball Player
  • Volunteer at local hospitals and pediatrician’s office: 210 hours
  • Shadowing physicians: 40 hrs

Essays/LORs/Other
*Common App Essay: 8/10(Wrote about an experience when I was younger when my dad had had a health scare and EMTs helped. Then talked about the present and how I have grown from then and how EMT empowers me.) < Still working on making this better

  • English Teacher LOR(8/10): Sophomore year english teacher, was pretty active in her class, she is a club advisor for a school club I do
  • Chemistry Teacher LOR(7/10?): I participated really well in his class, talked to him a lot, and he is my SNHS advisor, but it seemed he wrote it very last minute although I gave him a lot of notice so I’m tnot really sure
  • EMT Crew Chief LOR(9/10): I have ridden over 150 hours with this particular crew chief and she really likes me. I’ve only known her for about a year but she’s seen me grow and become more confident as I’ve matured as an EMT and person.

Cost Constraints / Budget
My parents make around 200-250k a year so money isn’t the greatest concern, but I’d like not to pay 80k a year lol. I am applying to dozens of scholarships so hopefully some of them pan out.

Schools(I’m applying to safeties as well)

  • UNC- Chapel Hill RD
  • Emory RD
  • WashU St. Louis RD
  • Northwestern RD
  • Vanderbilt RD
  • Johns Hopkins RD
  • Cornell RD
  • Brown RD
2

Can you put your UW on a 4 point scale ? Take out +/-.

Seems like you have great rigor. And overall just greatness. Congrats to you.

So I don’t love your list. The reason is that you likely won’t receive aid and you don’t want to spend $80k a year.

So Cornell and Brown should be out. Two similar that offer merit would be Chicago and Rice. Or a USC.

Are you a junior ? If a senior, why didn’t you apply EA to UNC?

Here’s the problem with the rest of the list…there is merit and you may earn some. But it’s unlikely and it often requires a lot more work…ie Vandy and WUSTL.

You can save a ton of money. If you did an Alabama or Arizona, your tuition would be $3k a year. U of SC and ASU have top Honors programs. Miami of Ohio is aggressive.

If you took money out of it, I’d say your list is likely fine except that you need to add matches and safeties…you said you are but are you sure?? What are they ??

So for example, have you applied to Rutgers? Instead of the very top schools, how about a Brandeis, Rochester, Case Western which may offer aid.

Or a bit smaller - Union, Macalester, Dickinson, Hobart, Denver, Miami, etc. depending on the environment you seek…but somewhere that merit is likely….that’s where I’m headed.

Btw have you discussed budget with your folks? That’s step one…always.

They might give you a max…or they might not.

Hope that helps.

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You will be a competitive candidate at all these schools. Nicely done!! Continue to focus on “fit”.

Given your apparent interest in an open curriculum like Brown I am glad that you are not contemplating a more rigid or structured curriculum at schools such as U Chicago or Columbia.

What are the most important characteristics you are looking for in a school? You will have to articulate fit into your essays so consistency is important.

Most of the schools you are applying to do not offer merit aid and even those that do at this tier do so very sparingly. Have you discussed with your parents the possible need to trade off prestige versus cost? This is a personal discussion and I am sure your parents will have a point of view that should guide you.

Once again if it’s fit I see some themes I. Your school choices but some detail from you could help in suggesting some alternatives or refinement.

4

Your parents make too much to qualify for need-based so the Ivies on your list are out if you don’t want to pay $80k/year.

If your essays are great then I think you have an excellent shot here and are competitive with all the colleges on the list you provided. You certainly qualify based on what you shared. Now it’s really the essays and LORs demonstrating why you’re a good fit for those communities you’re applying to.

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5

I’d be leery about spending a ton on undergrad. You’ll easily spend over half a million if you choose an Ivy. Do you or your parents have that? The Ivy League has a group agreement where they don’t give merit aid. Medical School is full pay for everyone.

Medical schools could care less where you go to undergrad, so I’d avoid debt if possible. It’s a wealth building killer.

I’d be inclined to choose your state flagship with a bunch of merit and keep some powder dry for medical school. I work with Ivy grads and Podunk U grads. There’s no distinction among them as far as how strong they are as physicians or how successful they’ve been in their careers.

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6

Not suggesting it is cheap but how do you arrive at over a half million dollars?

Annual cost at Ivies is currently $80k to $83 per year.

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So total of $320,000 to 332,000 assuming no need based aid at all. Even with some YOY increases you don’t approach $500+k.

OP have you talked finances with your parents? They are the ones that should be driving the money discussion not us strangers who don’t know the totality of your situation and or families ambitions and circumstances.

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I meant total expenditure including medical school. Just tuition and fees for medical school is now averaging over $50K/yr, not including room and board.

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I would remove the schools that do not give merit (Cornell etc). Keep in mind that merit is highly competitive at the remaining schools on your list.

What is your school’s history with UNC? Can your parents pay $55,000 per year? There are ways to bring the cost down a little- reducing your living expenses, staying on your parent’s insurance etc.

Take a look at schools such as Pitt, UMD-CP etc. You will likely make honors and possibly get some merit. Rutgers should also be on your list, and you can check out the SUNY schools.

I would sit down and discuss costs with your parents. Congrats on your accomplishments!

9

One question to OP is - are you a junior or senior? If senior, for some schools it’s already too late…UMD, UNC etc.

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10

Yes I agree!

I just went back and read the post again and it seems that this student is a senior (?).

11

I’m assuming that by telling us you are an Asian male, you are telegraphing the fact that your parents are onboard with all of this. That makes a big difference and all the easier for me to endorse your list. Otherwise, I don’t think it will be much of a factor in your admissions chances. You’re what I would call “a solid candidate” and - with the possible exceptions of Brown and Hopkins- have a better than even shot at all of your choices.

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12

If getting into medical school is your primary goal, then I would suggest a completely different strategy. Going to a T20 as an asian pre-med can be completely counterproductive. Medical school admissions is focused on two main things: 1) GPA and 2) MCAT. Other important secondary factors are 3) State of residence 4) Race/ethnicity. Prestige of academic undergrad degree doesn’t matter much.

So I say go to a place where you can get as high of a GPA as possible, and be near the top of your class. If you can get a full merit scholarship, thats even better. Small liberal arts colleges would love to have you. Its much easier to stand out to a med school admissions committee being the valedictorian of a small LAC than to be the 500th asian student applying from Big State U.

Read through the admissions stats published by the AAMC below. Especially the table titled “Undergraduate Institutions Supplying 50 or More Asian Applicants to U.S. Medical Schools, 2021-2022”

You’ll see that at the big universities, nearly half of the applicants to medical school are asian. Take UCLA for example. Nearly 1300 applicants, and 612 Asians. If you go to a college like this it will be a cut-throat atmosphere. Essentially you will be competing against other Asians for medical school slots.

So I would say avoid this altogether and go to a college that has few Asian pre-meds.

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13

If you do not want to pay $80k per year (perhaps to save money for expensive medical school), where are Rutgers and other lower cost colleges in your list?

Also, your list includes a non trivial chance of a shutout. This means that your default safety is starting at a community college, but that adds difficulty to the premed path due to medical schools frowning on community college course work.

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OP states the following so I don’t think community college is the default safety…

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Is the community college perception by med admission com true? I ask because I know about 4 doctors who went to two years of CC and then transferred to USC, and UCs to finish their undergrad and are now doctors. They’ve also been doctors for 10+ years now so it may be different now? Isn’t it GPA, MCAT, and ECs?

16

Taking the science pre-requisites at a CC is perceived by Adcoms as less rigorous. But if he takes gen-ed requirements and transfers, it will be fine.

But for classes like Orgo, Physics, Chemistry, they will want to see grades from a 4 year university. Students who are URM, or first gen they are more understanding.

17

There are some considerations:

  • Transfer students starting at community colleges are typically expected to take upper level science courses at a four year school to “validate” their community college science courses and grades. This may come mostly automatically if they are science majors, but needs careful planning for non-science majors.
  • California community colleges may be recognized as good quality more so than in many other states.

A science major transfer student needs to take lower level science courses at community college to prepare for transfer in the major, but will mostly automatically take upper level science courses at the four year school. A non-science major transfer needs to plan carefully so that enough of the pre-med science courses are taken at the four year school (but it may be hard to take all of them in the last two years at the four year school due to volume and prerequisite sequencing).

@WayOutWestMom any more comments on this subject?

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Agree with above. A student who attends a CC then transfers to a 4 years college will need to either:
a) take all or most of their science pre-reqs at the 4 year (take only GE classes at their CC)
OR
b) take UL electives in the science subject areas (bio, chem, physics, math) to supplement their CC science classes and confirm their academic performances at the CC

Also note that students who transfer from a CC to a 4 year will almost certainly need 1-2 gap years post college graduation before entering medical school. This is because the med school application process takes a full year. Colleges offering committee letters typically requires 2 full years of classwork/grades at the college before they will write a committee letter for a student. Also having only a single years at a 4 year college (student applies at the end of junior year which is necessary if the student intends to matriculate directly into med school after college graduation) makes it difficult to gain the LORs and research experiences needed to have a strong med school application.

I will also note that in the past 10 years, admission to medical school has become more competitive. The mean and median GPA and MCAT score has continued to rise and the number of applicants continues to increase. Last year only about 37% of applicants received an acceptance.

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19

Valid question. But one that should be asked on its own thread instead of hijacking another user’s thread. So I will assume no other users will continue the OT discussion here

20

Your stats are excellent. This suggests that you are a very strong and serious student and that being able to eventually make it to medical school is a very real possibility.

This in turns suggests that you want to start off on a path that will lead to your being able to afford to attend and graduate from medical school without taking on excessive debt. You need to be able to afford 8 years of university, where the last 4 years are likely to be expensive.

Which in turn leads me to fully agree with @eyemgh on this issue.

My opinion here might be a bit biased by having a daughter who attended a university for her bachelor’s that was a good fit and was affordable with a merit scholarship, but that was not the highest ranked that she was accepted to. She was pre-vet which means that her courses overlapped a lot with premed. She knew several students whose stats looked a lot like yours, even at a university that was ranked very roughly about 100 by US News. She now has a few friends who are currently at highly ranked medical schools, and is herself in a DVM program that is very good and highly ranked.

You do not need to attend a “top 20” university in order to attend a “top 20” medical school. You do however need to do very well in classes that are going to be very challenging at any “top 200” university. You will also need quite a bit of experience in a medical environment.

Personally for premed students I think that undergrad admissions should be boring. You should aim to attend a university which is affordable and where you can have some realistic hope to be near the top of your class – with the understanding that this is going to be take a lot of work. To me this says “Rutgers” for a very strong student from NJ. Here again I might be biased since the Rutgers graduates who I have worked with and/or studied with (in graduate school) made the university look good.

However, some of this might be based on my bias or the particularly experiences that I have. Assuming that your applications are all in, you might want to relax, stay ahead in your classes, and see what acceptances come in with what sort of financial aid.

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