You have a low chance of acceptance based on the fact of its competitive nature as well as the lack of success at your school for tippy-top acceptances. However, it is worth a shot in RD. Your ECs and gpa are fine/impressive and put you in the running, but rigor really matters. What courses have you taken compared to what has been offered at your school? Are you in the highest level of courses across most if not all of the core subjects? What are the hardest APs the school offers and have you or willyou be taking them? A school like Harvard expects you to challenge yourself across disciplines , considering what is available at your school.
Why won’t you say your state ? Put it this way - your state may have one or more solid flagship and Honors college. They may have reciprocal agreements with others? Some may not be affordable(once we know your budget).
Help us help you.
So let’s step back from Harvard and do many colleges. Run their net price calculator but budget is the first thing you need to discuss with your folks including room and board. Is it $20k or $40k? More ?
Schools like Harvard and Georgetown will be well over $300k and offer no merit aid.
So if you are full pay but cannot afford it, we need to change your list. Schools like Vandy, USC, and WUSTL offer merit but it’s hard to get.
Schools like the Ivies, Tufts, Gtown, Pomona are out.
Can you mention your targets just to ensure they are ‘targets’. Some people may be mos calibrate and if you can tell us your state.
You realize no one will know who you are - we have zero way to identify you. It would allow us to help you.
Finally - if you like an LAC check out the Johnson Scholarship at W&L, and then mid size Douglas Scholarship at American and Presidential at SMU.
Give us your budget and we can give you other schools.
UMD
The GW university
Syracuse
Fordham
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So you are from the Midwest but won’t say.
UMD is $58k and don’t forget inflation. Is that within budget ? Aid is unlikely and Politics is an impacted major - move to reach.
Fordham - I agree and it’s a likely.
Syracuse a safety almost but it’s likely going to cost more than UMD even with merit.
GW - similar but a target.
Give us a budget and home state please. Let us help you. You are too coy.
If you don’t know your budget, talk to your folks and come back.
Nothing is more important than a budget. It should drive the schools put on your list. If it’s $60k a year, those four might (or might not) work. If it’s $40k, they won’t.
Have that discussion so you build a proper list. That’s step one.
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As you haven’t shared a budget yet, this list obviously does not take this into account. But for a student with an interest in forming political connections, going to school in a state or federal capital are really important to think about. I’ve categorized these by I (a person who is not in college admissions) think your chances might be at these colleges. And there are other colleges in state capitals (U. of Montana, Louisiana State, Cal State Sacramento, etc) but until we know more about what you want, this is just an exercise in showing you what is possible.
Also, I would not recommend applying to this many schools. Just find at least two schools where you’re extremely likely to get in, that your family is willing and able to pay for without loans, and that you would be happy to attend. Then you can add additional schools in any more selective categories that you want, if you want. But find the schools that you’re a lock for that you would be happy to attend first.
Extremely Likely (80-99+%)
- Virginia Commonwealth
- U. of Hartford (CT)
- U. of Minnesota
- U. of Nebraska
- Agnes Scott (GA) – women’s college in a walkable part of the Atlanta area
- U. of South Carolina – with a very well-reputed honors college
- Meredith (NC) – women’s college
Likely (60-79%)
- U. of Wisconsin
- Ohio State
- Providence (RI)
- Fordham (NY) – not in a state capital, but very close proximity to the U.N.
- American (D.C.) – but this is one where they definitely want to see demonstrated interest…if they think they’re just a safety for the other D.C. schools you would likely receive a rejection
Toss-Up (40-59%)
- Trinity (CT)
- George Washington (D.C.)
Low Probability (20-39%)
- U. of Richmond (VA)
Lower Probability (less than 20%)
- Barnard (NY)
- Georgetown (D.C.)
- Harvard (MA) – a 4% admissions rate w/your ACT at the 25th percentile
- Wellesley (MA) – a women’s college with an 18% admissions rate w/your ACT above the 50th percentile
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First of all congratulations! You have done super well up to this point. You and your parents should be very proud of how well you have done. You are a very strong student and I expect that you will do well whichever university you end up attending. Being the top student in your high school is definitely not easy.
What do you intend to do with a degree in poli sci? Are you thinking of law school? There are definitely a large number of universities that will prepare you very well for law school (if that is the intention). There are also a wide range of majors that will prepare you for law school.
You should think quite hard about what you want in a university. Have you thought about a smaller school such as a liberal arts college? Why Harvard rather than Princeton, Yale, Stanford, Chicago, Amherst College, Bowdoin, Wellesley, Toronto, McGill, your in-state public university, or somewhere else? Having a good understanding of this question can be helpful both to improve your chances of getting accepted to Harvard, and to improve your chances of ending up at a school that is a good fit for you.
If you do end up at Harvard, expect to suddenly become average the day that you show up on campus. This is both a plus and a minus. There are more students like you, but classes are tough. Students who find high school easy but who then attend a top university such as Harvard sometimes have to improve their study skills in a hurry because classes have suddenly become harder.
There are something like 35,000 high schools in the US (public and private). Last year Harvard had about 61,000 applicants. They were not all the #1 student at a high school in the US. However, a large number of applicants were. Most applicants to Harvard are academically very strong. You are certainly a competitive and academically qualified applicant. Your changes for admissions are pretty certainly in the single digit percentages.
Which suggests that is it worth applying if you are sure it is a good fit for you, but you need to think hard about matches and safeties.
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Affordability is your biggest concern, I would think. If you can’t get financial aid and your parents cannot comfortably pay, you may need merit aid or a school that has lower costs.
I was going to suggest the “little Ivies” (google this) but again, paying may be a problem. I was also going to suggest you look at the Collleges that Change Lives website for ideas. Clark University is a school we like that offers merit aid for the kinds of community service you do.
State schools’ honors program is another possibility.
Harvard sometimes prioritizes accomplished kids from schools that don’t usually send kids there. But that is irrelevant if you cannot pay.
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You have a better chance at Harvard than most. Virtually nobody has a “good” chance… If I had to put a number on your odds, 10-15%, which is much better than their overall acceptance rate.
Definitely worth applying, but keep expectations realistic. As others have said, Georgetown, Cornell, Johns Hopkins are a few others that should be on your list. A school like George Washington would be borderline safety. (A rejection would be purely yield protection… rejecting you because they assume you’re not really interested).
I am curious as to how you arrived at this handicapped range. Harvard’s overall acceptance rate was 3.19%. This number includes all hooked candidates such as legacy, URM, Athletes, faculty kids etc. The actual rate for unhooked is probably 2%ish.
OP is an extremely accomplished student and has a lot to be proud of. That said she is applying as an over represented minority with a below median test score from a school that doesn’t routinely matriculate students to Harvard or other elites. Her application otherwise (while once again very praise worthy) is fairly typical of the vast majority of applications Harvard receives from an EC, transcript, LOR perspective. So why do you think her chances are 5-7.5Xs that of other applicants.
I am not dissuading OP from applying but I think it important she approach the process with eyes wide open to avoid future disappointment and properly calibrating her chances when creating a strategy. Sure take a shot, be proud and confident regardless but be thoughtful and plan would remain my advice.
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I’m spit balling, largely based on local experience. Our high school valedictorian, typically “unhooked”, gets into Harvard about once every 3 to 4 years.
An overall rate of 2-3% is certainly true. But it’s not 2-3% regardless of your achievements. That 2-3% includes tons of kids who are nearly zero. It includes lots of kids who aren’t valedictorians, who didn’t score 1550, who weren’t a Director of Your Engagement for a US Senate campaign, etc. My local school, looking at their Scoir, they have had about 80 kids apply to Harvard in the last 3 years, 2 (or 3, 1 isn’t clear) acceptances out of the 80. So about 2.5%.
But of the 80 applicants… 77 weren’t valedictorians, 75% had SATs below 1550, 50% had SATs below 1500, 50% had GPAs of 3.9 or lower. Lots of kids take a gamble on Harvard. A huge percentage of them, if they don’t have a hook, get eliminated very very quickly.
A student in the top 10% of applicants is not going to have anywhere near the same chances as a student right in the middle of applicants.
Someone who has a 3.95, mediocre extracurriculars and 1450 SAT – which is a ton of their applicants – has a chance far below the overall 3%.
I know that’s the perception, but it’s simply not true. It’s fairly typical of the type of student they accept. But it’s not reflective of the majority of their applicants. They get lots of non-valedictorians applying, lots of non 1550 SATs, etc.
Look at it this way, only 10,000-15,000 kids score 1550+ on their SAT in a given year. Harvard gets 60,000 applicants.
So even if half the 1550+ scorers apply to Harvard, that means only about 10% of their applicants are 1550 or higher on the SAT.
There are 25,000 high schools in the US… So if half of the Valedictorians apply to Harvard, that would mean only about 20% of their applicants are valedictorians.
So being a Valedictorian with 1550+… that’s not their typically applicant. That’s likely in their top 5-10% of applicants.
And as a side note, I plugged in OP’s stats in the College Lab calculator (partner with this site), and it gave a Harvard chance of 27%. So the big data says someone with 4.0, her APs, and 1550, gets accepted to Harvard about 27% of the time. Not sure how accurate that is, but they are looking at far more data than I have available to me.
You previously mentioned in describing your local experience…”for example, in this year’s graduating class of 300, over a dozen are going Ivy, including 3 going to Yale).”
This is not representative, indicative or relevant to OP who describes her local experience as; “No one from my district has gone to an ivy league in years… and even then it was 1 student from years ago.”
At super elite schools typically 75%+ of students are described and academically qualified and I have heard AOs quote that 25%+ of applicants are val or sad.
I admire your optimism but don’t see it as validated by my experience looking more broadly then versus a school such as your kids HS that appears to punch above its statistical weight. That is not the case for this student unfortunately.
FYI put your faith in college lab calculator or any other such predictor at your own peril.
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If we put aside anecdotal evidence, and look at objective data analysis…
I ran OP’s numbers through CollegeVIne… (where my own DS has a 1% chance at Harvard), it spit out 11% for OP. College Lab spit out 27% for Harvard.
I think people overestimate the number of Valedictorian/1550+/Impressive ECs, etc, applicants that they get.
So you’re saying, anecdotally, you observe 2%… I’m saying, anecdotally, I observe 15% for applicants like OP… but analysis of the big data spits out numbers ranging from 11% to 27%.
I’d take everything with a grain of salt. But those calculators are at least based on data, not anecdote. They are going to be more reliable than my or your personal opinion, as they are basing the analysis on far far more data.
At this point it’s clear OP wants to say, hey I got into an Ivy. I get it. I did that with a UC when I was a kid. My daughter wanted to apply to Cornell last year til she saw the effort required when she knew there was 0% chance I would pay $80k+ for her to attend.
OP needs to talk to her parents about budget. OP needs to run NPCs. If she is full pay as she thinks (if Harvard’s NPC shows) and she gives us a budget, we can tailor recommendations to her.
All the schools she’s listed are either a reach - and I include UMD as a low reach (for govt although I just read they are dropping limited enrollment status this year) and expensive - but until we know how much she has to spend and what she might qualify for at each specific school in need based aid - talking about Harvard or Gtown or GW is premature because they might be wasted apps.
That said I disagree Harvard is getting a ton of ‘nearly zero’. Yea some will be but I think most who have no chance realize. The last CDS (year b4) was 4% so it was interesting to see 3%. We don’t know the overall pool but no doubt in my mind most / many of the apps are strong…enough to fill the class multiple times.
It’s just not realistic to make someone, with a fantastic but for Harvard lower test scare, think they have a decent chance. Better than average ?? Does that mean 4%. 5% ?
But honestly until OP clarifies if she will qualify for need based aid and what the budget is for her family - it’s all premature discussion.
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I also admire your persistence but respectfully disagree on several points…
OP has a 33 ACT
Please see below regarding valedictorians from Duke 5 years ago. I don’t think Harvard or time will have caused that number to favor OP.
The ECs are great but typical in that nothing they won’t have seen.
Lastly “big data” looks to sell big data and No is not good for business or account for intangibles line ORM or an unknown HS.
We can agree to disagree and both wish OP well.
2% or 15% chance of rain I still don’t bring an umbrella. Either way assume the worst and take your shot.
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Agree to respectfully disagree.
But I think your Duke data backs up what I’m saying generally. Duke is nearly as competitive as Harvard, overall acceptance rate of 8%. Yet, they admitted 29% of Valedictorians!
Apply the same logic to Harvard – If, just like Duke, the acceptance rate for Valedictorians is 3-4x the overall acceptance rate, that would give OP a 9-12% acceptance chance.
That said… I do believe I erred. I misread, or might have been looking at something else… Could have sworn I read a 1550 SAT. With a 33 ACT, yes, that does diminish the chances. I may have been slightly too optimistic.
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Harvard is going to be a high reach, a very difficult admit.
What is it about Harvard that you like? If you can list some of your preferences, we can help you build a list.
I would also look at Wellesley and Smith. We have friends whose kids are at Grinnell and Carleton and Hamilton and each school are fiercely connected to opportunities during the 4 years for students in NYC and DC and they are very aggressive in having a strong alumni network senior year- placement into jobs.
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I was just going to suggest looking at LACs that give merit (including Grinnell, but also Macalester, Oberlin, Kenyon, etc.). They offer excellent education and usually have strong Poii Sci/International studies programs. The current US ambassador to Ukraine is a Kenyon alum, for example.
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OP’s should consider applying to her state flagship, probably honors EA or rolling, if available and perhaps adjacent state(s) if there is reciprocity. She could try EA at G’Town as her early reach. Depending on how results come in, she can shoot for other reaches, like Harvard, RD.
On chances for Harvard, while the data may be starting to go stale, for Asian Americans, they needed to be in the top 2 deciles of the Academic Index to have an admissions rate higher than the overall admissions rate (top 3 deciles admit rates 4.00%; 6.26%, 9.36% vs the then overall admit rate of 4.5%) – see Table 5.2 of the Plaintiffs’ expert report. chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://samv91khoyt2i553a2t1s05i-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/Doc-415-1-Arcidiacono-Expert-Report.pdf. Eyeballing the OP’s GPA and test scores, I don’t think she is in the top 2 deciles. She should still give it a shot, but she needs to set her expectations accordingly.
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There is no point in discussing schools like Harvard that offer only need-based aid, unless the family makes less than $180k or, better, $150k. Or if the family is willing not to “live comfortably.”
Are there younger siblings?
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