Top 20 and engineering don’t necessarily go hand in hand.
If you want to be an engineer, you should go for engineering.
But if STEM is not your aptitude, it’d be tough.
Ranking, for engineering, is not necessarily important but accreditation is.
But Ga Tech or Illinois are not top 20 but if you were studying mechanical, you’d go there over any Ivy, even Cornell based on prestige.
So - you’re a bit worrisome to me.
You are chasing prestige and wanting to study something that doesn’t really interest you but not pursuing what interests you because you’re not good at it - giving up before exploring to see if there’s a path for you as I see it.
I feel bad for the future you are baking for yourself but I wish you well.
History professor here. You don’t have to major in history, but you are deeply misinformed about the discipline, the purpose of a liberal arts education, or the tremendous potential of higher education in any discipline. Choosing a major because it’s easy (newsflash: it’s not) is every bit as lazy as avoiding one because you think it’s hard.
William and Mary is one of the best places in the country to study history. Distinguished in a lot of disciplines, actually. So is Southern Methodist University, which partners with a presidential library and research institute and brings world-class scholars to campus because of that relationship. Gettysburg College is an outstanding school that offers students extensive opportunities for internships and applied work in civic engagement. These internships lead to jobs. Not that you care.
For the vast majority of schools, you don’t apply as a history major. For LACs, you don’t apply as any major (though you do state preferences). For most schools, there are only a few majors you’d apply for – either because those are housed in their own colleges, or because they’re oversubscribed majors and the universities lack the resources to educate everyone who wants to declare those majors. So there’s gatekeeping. But for the vast majority of majors, in the majority of schools (and all LACs), you don’t declare your major until the end of your sophomore year.
If you are aimless, a four-year college is the best place to be. A community college is a fine place to start, if you want, but likely, you’d use that time to take care of general studies requirements. These courses are not likely to inspire those who lack inspiration to begin with. At a college or university, especially one with broad distribution requirements, research opportunities, first-year seminars, etc. – you have an opportunity to find something that inspires you.
You don’t really need to know career you want to pursue before you attend college. I think the prevalence of pre-professional majors gives the message that you need to have a plan in place, but you don’t. It’s possible that your major will lead to a career in unpredictable ways. But don’t write off majors because you think there’s no future in them. That’s almost never true. Please take a moment and look into a few majors of interest and look up what kinds of careers these majors might lead to. For example: Careers for History Majors | AHA
You don’t need a T20, Ivy, or Little Ivy, or whatever to have an outstanding education, to find world-class faculty and great mentors, and to have a great career. You do need an open mind, maturity and a sense of accountability, inquisitive habits of mind, and a willingness to learn. In fact, you need that no matter where you go. You most recent post suggests you may still need to develop these qualities.
You don’t even know what you don’t know about college. Your first step to a happy resolution to this process is to admit that fact, and to start learning. Temper tantrums will get you nowhere. Nor will a brand-name school, if you haven’t put in the work and developed the passion to take advantage of the opportunities it provides.
Engineering is different from science. Engineering is solving design problems using principles from math and science. Science is the study of the natural world / universe.
At colleges where intended major affects admission selectivity, you may find that changing to a more popular major needs another admission process based on college grades.
Wow, there are no stupid fields. I find your approach to education very shallow, to be honest. T20 or bust, only prestige schools and prestige fields. I hope as you approach your college years, you gain greater maturity and open your mind a bit wider, as you stand to miss out on a lot with such narrow and superficial thinking.
There are a lot of very knowledgeable people here, and I find your dismissive attitude towards their generous help to be worrisome. There are thousands of colleges in the US, many of which will give you an amazing education. College is about learning, growing, and becoming the best possible version of yourself - not about the “name brand “. I suggest you take a minute to really listen to the people here, and come back with an open mind. They will help you build a great, realistic college list if only you would let them.
You seem pretty set on the “T20 or bust” path, and I’m not necessarily trying to talk you out of it. But I am going to recommend that you hedge your bets. Your chances at those T20 schools are low, as everyone here has uniformly advised, and if you only apply to T20s then there is a decent chance that you’ll get all rejections. You’ve stated that you’re OK with that because you’ll go to community college and then transfer into UVA after two years. And, maybe that’s in fact what you will do, and you’ll be happy with your choice.
But, a year is a long time, and you might feel quite differently this time next year, when the reality of having not gotten into any four-year college hits you, and you’re actually going to be heading off to community college, and all of your friends and classmates will be doing roommate questionnaires, making packing lists for their dorms, and registering for classes. Why not hedge your bets? Apply to some targets and even a safety or two, just to give yourself the option of a four-year college. Then, if you still feel the same way, you can turn them all down and go off to community college as you have planned. But, maybe you will feel differently than you feel now, and you’ll be glad to have the option of a different path.
I’m going to respectfully disagree with the “lower your sights” advice, and say that I support the OP’s current plan. If he’s for real, and not just here to yank everybody’s chain, then he knows his own mind and should go all-in on his desired approach. Why would we advocate for him to go to a “lesser” school, take a spot away from someone who would appreciate and make the most of it, and probably ruin the freshman year of his roommate and others with his “I’m too good to be here with the likes of you” attitude? "T10 or bust’ is the way to go here. CC-to-UVA is a fine path, and perhaps the most beneficial outcome for all concerned. The lesson here is that when a student leads with feeling sorry for himself for being blessed with affluence and a top-notch high school education, we should consider the value of our time when/if responding.
Since I suck at STEM right now, if I do apply for college declaring STEM (i.e to CS or the engineering school), I’ll simply get autorejected immediately with my ridiculously dumb stem grades.
Therefore, I must indicate interest in a major that I’m “good at” but don’t care for. However, if I’m able to switch into a STEM major later, maybe I’ll succeed, but there’s an insanely high likelihood that I’ll flunk out.
Let’s say I do flunk out of STEM (seems like it since I have a B- in calculus rn and dropped out of AP physics in the first unit). At least with a Stanford or Amherst history major I can get a job in some finance or business management sector just because of the name brand carrying.
If I go to some rando LAC in farmtown just because it has a “good history program,” I’ll literally fail. And I’ll only have a skillset of medieval feudalism that makes no sense to anyone (at this moment, since I am a history buff, people clown me in HS itself).
I just wish I had abilities in STEM so this discussion wouldn’t happen, but I’m basically forced to apply to history and polisci since those are my strengths. Circuits and machines fascinate me far more than antidissesstablishmentarianism.
In a way, I feel I’m both narrow minded (T20 or failure) AND aimless (what do I study?) at the same time.
…except that the same will be just as true (if true) for many of the next 80 schools.
Being an undecided student puts you in the majority, and very many colleges and universities, regardless of rank, will offer a wide range of majors to eventually settle on.
Your focus on T20 is irrational, because for what you seek the number 20 is meaningless.
Only because you’re beyond ranking blinded. If you applied to the right schools - you’d get in and likely earn the same amount of $$ (adjusted for COL depending where you live) as UVA. Since you’re unwilling to pursue what you want because having a certain name to brag about is more important, you’ll be pursuing in life something you’re not truly interested in.
This is not the case. I can give you 200 colleges you can go to and get a great CS or engineering degree - if you can get through. 40-60% of engineering grads (depending on the study) don’t finish.
The odds are slim that you’d get a job in IB even from those schools - it’s not all who can get those. But frankly the odds are slimmer you can get into those schools. You have an imbalanced perception of reality. There are plenty of, looking at it from a financial POV, not successful people from Amherst or Stanford - I once had a Stanford grad as an administrative assistant. And there are people from Radford or Longwood - who make bank!!
You have no idea what college is about. You are not going for job training if you major in history - you are going to grow, develop writing and communication skills.
5.You do have abilities. You struggled in calc and dropped AP physics. At a lot of college engineering programs, calc will first happen in college and many didn’t take AP physics. Actually, most likely didn’t.
A STEM degree is not easy - whether it’s VCU or UVA, it’s tough - and perhaps you won’t succeed. My kid was a stud in HS and got his a$$ kicked at Bama. But if you have grit and fortitude, you’ll succeed there…or in a different major and in life.
If you’ve got a crap attitude and assume that you’ll be successful because of the name on your diploma…well you’ll likely be living off mom and dad for many years to come.
Others have commented on your attitude or your pre conceived notions.
I suggest you go back and re-read those messages and take a look in the mirror.
Your assumptions are wrong. LACs have some of the best alumni networks out there and some of the best internship opportunities. You are narrow-minded, but the good news is being narrow-minded is a choice, and you can choose to open your mind. Educate yourself.
Most Northern VA public schools use Naviance. Their scattergrams should give you an idea of your acceptance chances with your grades and test scores. I know the school systems don’t formally rank, but colleges will know approximately where you stand in your class. For example, if you were in Fairfax County, my guess is that you’d be approximately in the top 1/4-1/3 of your class using grades from your core classes (leaving out grades from classes like PE). Definitely solid but likely won’t make you competitive for top 20 schools. You’d likely have a decent shot at W&M or VT.
The elite college or bust plan is short sighted and (truth be told) not likely to end well. As others have mentioned, I have the strong impression that you won’t be happy 14 months from now if you find yourself living at home and going to community college just because you didn’t get into an Ivy caliber school. There are so many good colleges and universities outside the so called T20 that provide excellent educations, college experiences and job prospects. I know kids who excelled at schools like Tennessee, LSU, Oregon State and yes Gettysburg College (which you dismissed as beneath you) who got great jobs out of college with the likes of Nike and KPMG or are now at top grad programs at Georgetown Law (the Gettysburg grad) and Berkeley.
The first screen for a finance or consulting position is a case interview- and if you aren’t good at math and logic, you can kiss those career paths good bye. And some firms double down with a standardized test as a check on your quant skills.
You say you have a big preference for large state schools. Of course you list some of the most difficult admits like UMich, UT-A, UCLA and your home state school of UVA. There are tons of other big state schools that might be targets, like Penn State, Tennessee, Virginia Tech, South Carolina, etc. There are plenty of others that are probably safeties. Check your school’s Naviance to see where you fall. Everyone in the country knows these schools. Penn State has the largest alumni network in the country. You’re not really losing out on any type of prestige because everyone knows them, and they all have tons of proud alumni. For someone who is undecided about what they want to study, state schools can be great. They have practically every major. If history/polisci doesn’t work out, who knows you could end up in something like hospitality management or may even find yourself in the college of agriculture with a major that helps to satisfy your STEM interests, but isn’t quite as STEM heavy as Engineering or CS. There are a ton of possibilities.
As a piece of practical advice, if you think there is any possibility that you might want to major in engineering or CS, you should apply to that major and start there. It’s much easier to switch out than switch in. Switching in could cost you an extra year at undergrad, while switching out likely wouldn’t affect a typical 4-year undergrad timeline. Good Luck!
@blossom probably has a wider variety of samples, but the one my S was given was a hypothetical business that had a particular problem with its own systems. The issues/concerns were called out. He then was tasked with coming up with a summary proposal to the “client”. The background hypothetical facts were pretty detailed, but the assignment was pretty open ended. My guess is what he was being judged on was his thinking process on solving a systems problem as a third party, from identification, solutions and measurement points of view. He got the job, but spent most of the summer doing grunt work on pitches, so he opted for IB for the next summer’s internship.
One piece of reality to share is that a T20 graduate has no sure path to the lucrative careers that you seem to believe. My S is an HYP grad and plenty get shut out from the high paying jobs that they aspire. A 3.7 was kind of the cutoff to pass the initial screening. He was given various logic and quick math problems in several of the interviews. While his summer class was mostly target school kids, there were plenty from the Penn States of the world. I think it is fair to say that the major advantage of going to a target school (which may not necessarily be a T20), is that there are more on campus recruiting opportunities. You still have to deliver the goods in terms of grades and relevant classes, and you have to present yourself well.
