Chance me: small liberal arts colleges

Chance Me / Match Me!
1

Hi all,
I’m new to this forum and this is my first time posting discussion so please let me know if I missed anything in my post.

I am currently an upcoming senior, and I am a first generation Chinese immigrant and have been receiving education in America since 8th grade. These are the schools I am thinking about applying:
Pitzer College
Connecticut College
Trinity College
Wesleyan University
Emory University
Wheaton College
Lake Forest College
Washington College
Drew University
Hamilton College
St. Lawrence University
Vassar College
Davidson College
Denison University
Allegheny College
Franklin and Marshall College
Haverford College
Susquehanna University
Swarthmore College
Ursinus College
Washington and Jefferson College
College of William and Mary
Pepperdine University
Bard College

Here are my stats:
Unweighted GPA: 3.99, Weighted GPA: 4:33 (I go to a private school in CA)
AP: AP World History (3), AP Chinese (5), AP English Language (waiting for the score), AP US History (waiting for the score), AP Calc AB (waiting for the score but probably failed), AP Biology (next year), AP Calc AB, AP Literature (next year) , AP Government (next year)
Honors: Spanish 4 Honor (next year), Trig Honor(sophomore), Chem Honor(sophomore), Lit Honor(sophomore)
SAT: 1340; I am retaking it again (right now my practice tests show that I’m around 1430).
SAT Subject: SAT Math (720), SAT World History (640; not going to submit this score), and I have other SAT Subjects’ score coming up.

EC:
Fabric Arts (11,12[upcoming])
Stage Crew + Technical Theater (9,10)
Interact Club (9-12; with 1 year of being an officer)
Robotic Club (9-12)
Piano

Summer:
Internship in CORO(10)
Internship in startup company(10)
Internship in non-profit organization (11)
Summer Program in Columbia (9)

Awards/Honor Society:
Bronze medal (10) and Honorable mention (11) from Spanish National Exam
Spanish Honor Society (11)
Math Honor Society (11)

Volunteer:
Service Trip to Fiji (9)
Service Trip to Puerto Rice (10)
non-profit organization (started an internship with the non-profit this summer)

I am very interested in Haverford and is considering applying ED to the school. I am aware that my last SAT score is too low for the school, but if I (hypothetically speaking) get a 1450-1500 would there be a chance for me to get accepted by Haverford? I am hoping that my personal essay regarding to my experience through my mental illness will help boost my application. Also what are your opinions regarding to my chance to other schools? Do I have enough safety and match schools on my list?

I really appreciate your time to read my long post!

2

If you reach 1430+ you’d have a shot at Haverford, but a shot, not a certainty.


What’s your budget? Have you run the NPC and talked with your parents about the results?


Pepperdine (a conservative/Evangelical Christian college) is the outlier in your list.


William and mary is a public school and will thus not give you any financial aid - can your parents afford to pay $5,000 every month for 10 months each year for 4 years?

3

Wew! That’s a ton of colleges.

It sounds like you’re in great academic shape for them and it looks like you’ll be able to get your SAT up, as you said. I think you have very good chances at the majority of them.

I think you should make sure that you really like all of those colleges. 24 colleges is a lot to apply to.

4

Hi MYOS1634, I have talked to my parents about tuition, and they are fine with the price of most colleges. But I will talk to them again to make sure that they are okay with William and Mary, thank you for your reminder.

Hi newkidnewtrix, yes I will shorten the list to about 10 colleges since I don’t want to apply to the colleges that may not fit me. Thank you for the advice!

5

OP, try not to write an essay on mental illness. It’s commendable that you have preservered and made the most out your opportunities, however that type of essay would divulge too much.



An Asian applying to LACs has a decent chance at some of the East Coast and Southern ones (not the tip tip ones though). The demographics are in your favor as long as the SAT 1 is closer to 1450.



Definitely agree with the other posters that you should need to pare down the list. Also do some research on the schools since they seem to be scattered all over the country. Would the schools be a good fit for you culturally and educationally? This is going to be important since there will be very few Asians with a similar background at some of your school choices. What do you have in mind as a potential major?



Add your state public school to the list as well as a match/safety.

6

Hi Hamurtle,

Thank you for your advice and useful information. Most of the schools I am looking at are located around northeastern part of U.S. (PA, CT, NY, etc) and in CA, although there are some outliers in the list of schools (e.g. Pepperdine, College of William and Mary). I will definitely shorten the list of schools and I will update the shortened list of college onto the forum, and you do bring up a very good point of researching for the cultural and educational aspect of the colleges as well as the locations; I will keep that in mind when I am shortening my list. Are there any other advice that you (all) can give me regarding ways to shorten my list of schools?

That being said, I personally think that writing a very personal essay on my battle against my mental illness reflects my core values and allows the colleges to see who I truly am. If a college doesn’t want me because of my mental illness, I think it will be best for me to not go there because I don’t want to go to a school that cannot accept my core values and is not very accepting toward people with mental illness backgrounds.

7

Oh and I forgot to mention: my potential major is Biology with (not sure yet) a minor in Psychology/Chemistry. Right now I am not considering UC public schools in CA; I like small schools more.

8

If you can pull off an essay like that, then go for it. Most people would be uncomfortable with writing or reading that type of essay as it might divulge too much confidential information. That type of information is best left undisclosed. Just my opinion though.



I might add Oberlin to the list. A rule of thumb for paring down the list to 10-15 is to focus on the geographic regions that you’re interested in and select 3-4 schools that fit your criteria.



Since you mention California, would you consider the smaller Catholic schools like Santa Clara or St. Mary’s? You are within range and even though they are Catholic institutions the education is more holistic.

9

At most of these schools, a wide variety of interests and activities is more important than test scores. It is important to focus on the big picture more than a single score. Taking the SAT again is less important than writing a good essay. With that, Haverford is a reach, but if you know that it is your first choice, you should apply ED. I agree with this thread that you need to focus this list. A good number is about 7.

10

Run the net price calculators on each school website with your parents so they understand the yearly cost. Also, please take the advice to NOT write about your mental illness. No matter how well it fits the prompt, it could very well keep you out of many of these schools. You may think you are past your issues, but admissions officers are very aware that these problems can recur, and they do NOT want the risk of that happening on campus if they can avoid it. Most students have many different ways they could answer the essay prompts. Find something that makes them want you on campus. Ideally with something that is unique about you. Maybe something about what it was like to come here in your early teens could be a good topic.

11

Reach (some could be high match if you bump up the SAT)
Pitzer College
Wesleyan University
Swarthmore College
Hamilton College
Vassar College
Davidson College
Haverford College

Match
Connecticut College
Trinity College
Emory University
Lake Forest College
Washington College
Drew University
Washington and Jefferson College
College of William and Mary
Pepperdine University
Bard College
St. Lawrence University
Denison University
Franklin and Marshall College

You’ll get in
Wheaton College
Susquehanna University
Ursinus College
Allegheny College

Some LAC’s with top bio programs that would be matches for you are Colby, Franklin & Marshall, and Colgate on the East Coast. Bowdoin would be a reach but it has the #1 liberal arts bio program (and #19 overall).

In terms of bio programs alone out of the ones you listed - the order would go Haverford, then Swarthmore, then Pitzer, then Wesleyan, then Davidson.

How to shorten your list:
Take off 2 from the “you’ll get in” list (safeties).
You have a lot of matches with you can cut down to around 3-6 schools (so take away 6-7).
You can have more reaches and I would only knock off 1 or 2 from the list above.

When choosing which ones to keep, I would recommend doing as many visits as you can (obviously not visiting every single school) AFTER you take a look at the school’s rankings in biology, their faculty in that area, as well as culture as has been mentioned above and choose the ones you feel are the best fit for you.

Good luck!

12

@Hamurtle and @intparent :
Thank you for bringing up again about the issue of writing my personal essay regarding my mental illness. Intparent you brought up a VERY good point. Even though the teachers and school counselor (who read my personal essay) said that it is very powerful, some admission officers may be very concerned about my mental illness background. My mental illness is Social Anxiety (which I wrote about how I overcame my low self-esteem and started to be able to speak up in the class and be myself), and will it cause concern within the admission officers? If it will make them worry about my condition, I will choose to write something other events that can still express my core value.

@tcw111 : Thank you for the reminder. I agree with you that while the colleges want to see my academic performance, it may be more important to these colleges to get to know me through my personal essay and activities. I will try my best to write the personal essay.

@upwardss12 : Thank you for the list of reach, match, and safety you created for me! It will be very helpful to me during the process of selecting colleges on my way-to-long list of colleges. I will also possibly replace some of the colleges on my list with the colleges that you mentioned that have very good bio programs. I will select out the colleges I want to apply to and post it in the forum in possibly a week (depends on my schedule, but I since I have to finish the list someday, I figured why not do it this week). I do have a question: I have heard stories like some colleges rejecting one’s application because they know that they are his/her safety schools. Is it likely to happen to me?

13

I agree that you should not write about mental illness. Isn’t there something else that defines who you are? So many students write about family tragedies, illnesses of all kinds, and stories of hardship. It’s not necessarily bad to write about those topics, but colleges are a bit wary of mental illness, with good reason. College is a big transition and their counseling centers are booked up solid. You don’t want to give a college a reason to deny you.

If you plan on majoring in biology, there are a lot of good schools that can work for you, as it’s a popular major. All the Maine NESCAC schools are strong in biology. There are some excellent LACs in PA such as Gettysburg and Dickinson that have good bio programs and could be match schools.

I think you should consider taking the ACT. As a tutor of both tests, my opinion is that the SAT is more difficult, especially in reading, and that as a non-native speaker, you may find the ACT is easier for you. Both tests are difficult, however the main problem with the ACT is the time constraint.

In all honesty, I think some of your reaches are too far out of reach. I really disagree with post #10. I just can’t see Swarthmore, Emory, Pitzer or Wesleyan happening. Emory had an acceptance rate of 21% this year. William and Mary is really tough if you are not in Virginia. A good number of colleges to apply to might be something like 2 safeties, 3-5 matches, 2-4 reaches.

Have you got a Fiske college guide or similar? It’s not unusual for people to have very different types of colleges on a list, but you really should try and do more research. Pepperdine and Bard have almost nothing in common, other than they are institutions of higher learning. Good luck.

14

Average GPA at Pitzer is 3.86 and average SAT 1400 - and I believe it’s test optional at that.

You have a near perfect UW GPA; just boost that SAT and you’re solid to get into the match schools (30% to 50%) and have a good shot at some of your reaches.

I wasn’t very familiar with Emory but it looks like it would be a reach for you given their high average SAT (1500+). That was my mistake.

But I think Pitzer would be a great reach for you, as well as Haverford. These aren’t Ivies with accept rates south of 10%. It’s always good to have a reach school - but make sure you love your matches and safeties. From there, pick the ones that are the best fit for your personality and that you feel have the best culture - and narrow down the best bio programs like I mentioned before.

I agree with post #11 that research is important. I am confident that you’ll be able to find good fits for you given all the information out there. Then make sure to visit to the extent you’re able.

15

@upwardss12 , Pitzer’s acceptance rate is 12.9%. Lower than Cornell. Any college with an acceptance rate of about 20% and lower is pretty much a reach for all. Yes, it is test optional. But it’s still a high reach for this student. If anything, Pitzer is going to scrutinize the test optional applicants more closely. The test optional candidates they accept are probably going to be very impressive in other ways, as will applicants that submit tests. I am not trying to sound horrible about the OP, but I am not seeing anything in the resumé above that makes me think this is a super strong candidate. Service trips to Fiji are fantastic, no question, but things like that mostly show adcoms that the OP has plenty of money, to be blunt. Adcoms know exactly what those service trips are, which is paying to play. I have no problem with that type of actvity and my own child had some pay to play experiences. But adcoms will be just as impressed by the kid who spends the summer volunteering at the animal shelter or doing something they are deeply inolved in that doesn’t cost a lot of money.

Now, OP goes to a private school, and maybe OP’s school has ties to some of the reach schools listed above. If that is the case, that will help the OP. The OP should understand that colleges with acceptance rates that low will pick the very strongest applicants. The OP is solid and has a nice range of ECs, but nothing special in my estimation. I think Haverford is a much more realistic reach school. My opinion is that schools with acceptance rates in the 20-30% range are still reaches for most students. And let’s remember that a match school doesn’t guarantee anything either. I agree for the most part with the categories you have created for the schools OP has listed, but I do not agree that OP has a good shot at some of the reach schools. Maybe OP will prove me wrong.

16

@Lindagaf : Thank you for your honest comments and advices. I do agree with you that some schools will be perhaps too out of my reach (since their admission rates are too low and it is true that I don’t have any exceptionally good EC and summer internships except the paid CORO internship), but I do have a question regarding to Pitzer College: Why is the college’s GPA 3.86 and the admission rate is 12.9%, while Haverford college’s GPA is 4.00+ and yet the admission rate is around 20%? Perhaps the data says something about the perspective students that apply to these two colleges? Or maybe the colleges have different requirements to the students (I do know that Pitzer College focus a lot on social justice and the 5 core values)? It may seem like a silly question, but is admission rate the main criteria that determines the difficulty level for a student to get accepted?
I will change my personal essay into one that doesn’t involve my mental illness background.
I do have the Frisk college guide; in fact, I developed my list of colleges (except Pepperdine University and Bard College, which my friends mentioned them to me). But sadly under the Frisk college guide 2017 version, I don’t see “Biology” marked under the Dickinson, Bates, Bowdoin, and other LAC colleges’ “Strong Programs” section. Are there any other better and reliable online website and/or books where I can review comments from the alumni/student body and/or see what schools have good Biology programs?
Lastly, I have taken an ACT practice test before, but I had actually done better on the SAT practice test compared to the ACT one. I am not a good timer and I do not do well under tight time constraints (despite the lower difficulty level of the ACT than the SAT). I think I will stick with the SAT.

@upwardss12 : It is okay that you mistakenly put Emory University into the “Match” section. It is totally normal for anyone to not be familiar with some schools. After all, college admission is a very complicated process, and the overwhelming amount of colleges available to every high school students doesn’t make things any easier. But your reach/match/safety list provides me a good estimate into what school should I select and make the college selection process easier for me. Is your estimation of my reach/match/safety based on my current 1340 SAT score? Or is it based on my 1430 SAT practice test score?

17

Fiske cannot include all strong programs at a very strong college. Bate, Bowdoin, etc are VERY strong in all sciences. Basically you can’t go wrong if you go there, even if you change ideas on your major. They’re strong in many fields.

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I don’t know exactly which colleges have strong bio programs, but I can tell you that Bates has a very high rate of students getting into med school, and a lot of premed kids obviously study bio. Someone already mentioned Bowdoin. It’s one of the best LACs. A better reference for which schools have good bio programs might be Rugg’s Recommendations. It will be available in your guidance counselor’s office. I would be amazed if any NESCAC school did not have a good bio program.

Re accpetance rate differences between Haverford and Pitzer, those schools are both looking for very particular kinds of students. Haverford is very small and has a strict honor code. @doschicos is a good person to ask about Haverford. You can look at any college’s Common Data Set, section C7, to see what a school prioritizes. I am no expert on the Claremont Consortium. All the schools in it are very selective. Acceptance rate isn’t a be all and end all, but you need factor it in when you are coming up with a list.

There are other guides besides Fiske. Princeton Review and the Insiders Guide to Collges, amongst others. Also look at student websites such as Niche. I am getting the feeling that you are simply looking at colleges that you think have strong bio programs, rather than if you might actually enjoy being at the colleges. The most selective ones want to know that you want to be there, and they want students who fit. Do research and express interest for most LACs. LACs are not just about high grades. They are small and theywant to selelct people they like. Fit is important.

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@MYOS1634 : I see. I will do more research online to now more about the NESCAC schools and their strong programs. Thank you!
@Lindagaf : I will take a look at Rugg’s Recommendatiln and Haverford’s Commin Data Set. It is true that when I was making my initial list of colleges, I only looked at the colleges’ location and the “String Programs” under Frisk Guide to determine select the colleges. I have heard about Niche.com, and I have done some research on Niche.com and looked at the comment section from the student body in different colleges on ■■■■■■■■■, but the researches are definitely not extensive and are not enough. Looks like I have a lot of work ahead of me. Thank you for all the help!

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In the event you don’t get your test score up, you can google a list of colleges that are test-optional at Fairtest. http://www.fairtest.org/sites/default/files/Optional-Schools-in-U.S.News-Top-Tiers.pdf

You really can’t assume you will get a higher test score. Of course your English is very good, but unfortunately the test makers did not design the test for non-native speakers. There are some exceptional test-optional schools, but colleges have varying degrees of what they consider test-optional. For example, Hamilton, I believe, is test-optional for the ACT or SAT 1, but instead requires a certain number of AP or SAT 2 test scores. You have to work with what you have now, which is great grades.

@butter7 , editing to add: Some test optional colleges admit very high percentages of test-optional applicants. Bates is one of them. There are some others too. You have all summer to research, but think about other aspects of college besides what you want to major in. Of course your major is very important, but probably most of the collegs you have mentioned will have strong bio programs. If you choose a small school, you want to know you will fit in with those people for four years. Don’t just focus on academics, look at the whole picture.