Chance my Extracurricular Activities

Colleges and Universities A-Z Harvard University
1

<p>Hello everyone!</p>

<p>I am a German student who toys with his goal to study at an Ivy college (especially Harvard,Yale,Columbia,Princeton,Brown). Moreover, Stanford, NYU Stern, UChicago are strong options, too. Currently, I am about to finish my high school career by taking the Abitur examinations, the German equivalent to the US high-school diploma.
As I know that the so-called EC's play an essential role in the admission process I would like you to rate my EC's so that I receive a realistic overview. I would like you to do the "standard" chance procedure .</p>

<p>Extracurricular activities:
- communal political commitment as member of the JuSos, the youth organization of the Social Democratic Party
- tutoring for pupils from socially disadvantaged families (Turkish,Arabic and slavic families);not only based on educational help as socialization and integration into society are omnipresent
- leader and founder of a network respectively NGO trying to combat the Turkish-Kurdish conflict in Turkey and partially in Germany actively
- 2 service trips to Anatolia where I helped harvesting and taught basic knowledge to the children as they do not enjoy education
- sports as fitness, football and basketball sweeten my leisure time; moreover I function as a teacher/coach for socially deprived children and disabled persons
- founder and leader of a debate and politics club , again trying to find solutions for communal problems
- I have worked at my father's firm which specialized in civil engineering where I had some organizational stuff to do
- playing Turkish guitar
-Prospectively, I toy with the plan of going to the Gaza Strip or Palestine in order to have a clearer picture of the Arab–Israeli conflict respectively its impact on the everyday life of the population there
- prospectively, I could gain an internship at the Turkish/German government or embassy</p>

<p>Probably, I will finish my high school career with a 1,2-1,4 Abitur which is equivalent to an overall A or A+, according to wikipedia (Academic grading in Germany - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia).</p>

<p>I do not know if a class rank/percentile system is available in Germany but my head teacher stated that I would be 1-4/160 people in my class which is pretty amazing as both my school is competitive and I am Turkish ( usually marked by failure in Germany).</p>

<p>Hooks: I do not know if Turkish people can be counted as URMs ( I rather tend to no), I am the first in my family to go to college/university</p>

<p>Now I would like to have your evaluation and comment on those points. I know that commenting on chances without SAT scores is kind of difficult but you could give a try for it. I would like to do a double major (political science/economics). So what do you think? Could I stand a chance for those top schools?</p>

<p>Thanking you in anticipation</p>

<p>Parkhead</p>

2

<p>“As I know that the so-called EC’s play an essential role in the admission process . . .”</p>

<p>Harvard, and all Ivy League schools, are first and foremost academic institutions. Although EC’s do play a role in the admissions process; they are NOT as “essential” as you make them out to be. What matters most in the admissions office is your transcript, course rigor, standardized test scores, teacher recommendations, guidance counselor’s report, essays – and then your extracurricular activities followed by your interview. Read:
[Guidance</a> Office: Answers From Harvard’s Dean, Part 1 - NYTimes.com](<a href=“http://thechoice.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/09/10/harvarddean-part1/]Guidance”>Guidance Office: Answers From Harvard's Dean, Part 1 - The New York Times)
[Guidance</a> Office: Answers From Harvard’s Dean, Part 2 - NYTimes.com](<a href=“http://thechoice.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/09/11/harvarddean-part2/]Guidance”>Guidance Office: Answers From Harvard's Dean, Part 2 - The New York Times)
[Guidance</a> Office: Answers From Harvard’s Dean, Part 3 - NYTimes.com](<a href=“http://thechoice.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/09/14/harvarddean-part3/]Guidance”>Guidance Office: Answers From Harvard's Dean, Part 3 - The New York Times)
<a href=“http://thechoice.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/09/15/harvarddean-part4/[/url]”>http://thechoice.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/09/15/harvarddean-part4/&lt;/a&gt;
<a href=“http://thechoice.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/09/16/harvarddean-part5/[/url]”>http://thechoice.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/09/16/harvarddean-part5/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

3

<p>I would be grateful, if you state some SAT scores of which you think they could make my application competitive at those top schools, considering the fact I am international.</p>

4

<p>See page 9 of Harvard’s most recent common data set: <a href=“http://www.provost.harvard.edu/institutional_research/CDS2010_2011_Final.pdf[/url]”>http://www.provost.harvard.edu/institutional_research/CDS2010_2011_Final.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>SAT scores for accepted freshman
25th percentile
CR = 690
M = 700
W = 700</p>

<p>75th percentile
CR = 800
M = 790
W = 800</p>

<p>Harvard does not break those figures down into domestic and international students, other than to say that international students represented 10.9% of the accepted student body (about 180 students out of 1600).</p>

5

<p>I think you have really good extra curriculars. you should definitely try to take the sat or act to show that you have great academic English and are able to use reasoning in that language.</p>

6

<ol>
<li><p>You are a decent candidate for anywhere, as long as you have decent SATs and a qualifying TOEFL score. That does not mean you will be successful, but I don’t think it’s a waste of your time to apply. A German Turk will not qualify as a URM, but will pique everyone’s interest, especially given your level of academic success.</p></li>
<li><p>Your college list is curious: I can’t imagine including Harvard, NYU Stern, UChicago, and Brown, and not including Penn (College of Arts & Sciences and/or Wharton).</p></li>
</ol>

7

<p>I appreciate all of your responses, thank you very much for having taken time to evaluate.</p>

<p>@ JHS:</p>

<p>I am strongly convinced that I will pass the ibt TOEFL with a score above 100 ( which is mostly required by US Colleges whereat I rather tend towards 110).
I endeavor not to be represented by my self-confidence as an arrogant and snobbish guy . It’s just the thing that I am very happy to have the chance to dream of a Top school. Do you think that I should attach an additional recommendation letter of the Turkish ambassador of Berlin?</p>

<p>In response to your second point I have to admit that I just forgot about those schools. Of course I plan to apply for Cornell, UPenn and other schools,either. However, my fascination for HYPS is ranked first.</p>

<p>As I am not that familiar with the particular educational specialization of those colleges, I would like to ask you if you could characterize one of those schools as ‘leading’ in PoSci/Econ.</p>

<p>Thank you very much in anticipation</p>

<p>Parkhead</p>

8

<p>I think your ECs are great. Fantastic actually. I’m assuming you are going to apply next fall, since it’s past the application deadlines. What are you planning to do with your time off? </p>

<p>I don’t know which of those schools is “leading” in polsci/econ, but I do know that Georgetown has one of the foremost political science programs in the country, and I would strongly recommend that you apply there if polysci is your intended major. Many students turn down Yale or Harvard to go to Georgetown’s SFS. </p>

<p>And yes, I think you should attach a letter from the Turkish ambassador of Berlin, but only if you actually know him/her and he/she can evaluate you effectively. It won’t help to add a letter from someone who barely knows you. </p>

<p>As far as SAT scores go, they really need to be over 2100 to have a good chance, preferably 2250+ If you can afford it, get a private tutor. </p>

<p>Also, are you going to be able to afford college in the US? There is limited financial aid for international students, and these colleges will be need aware when you apply. If you do not have the money to pay 50-60k yearly, I would recommend that you apply to some lower-ranked schools that you have a chance to receive financial aid or merit aid from.</p>

9

<p>

</p>

<p>Only if he knows you personally and can speak of your character or add additional insight not found elsewhere in your application. If he will merely say “parkhead is an excellent student, he achieved high scores and has great activities” etc it isn’t worth it.</p>

10

<p>A few grace notes:</p>

<p>100 on the TOEFL is very low for the schools to which you are applying. 110 would be OK.</p>

<p>Alwaysleah is not always right. Some of the colleges you mention will evaluate your application on a need-aware basis (NYU, Chicago, Brown, Columbia, Stanford), others won’t (Harvard, Yale, Princeton). The fact that a college may be need-aware does not mean that you shouldn’t apply, but it does mean you should recognize that you are in a VERY competitive situation if you require substantial aid and that you will only be admitted if you are one of the very best candidates they have. You may want to look into a few other colleges that may seem less attractive to you at first glance, but which are as strong as the ones you list and which have larger budgets for international student financial aid: Dartmouth, Amherst, MIT). Of course, the fact that they are need-blind for international students means that they attract lots and lots of very strong international applications, so they are not really less competitive than the need-aware schools.</p>

11

<p>I thank you all for your responses!</p>

<p>Nevertheless, I would like to pose the question, if there is the possibility of paying the full costs of $200k-250k by installments. I think that my parents could afford to pay $10k per year.
Is that an option?</p>

12

<p>Most colleges in this group will look at six things: What your parents can afford to pay out of their current savings and assets, what they can afford to pay out of current income, what they can afford to borrow against future income, what YOU can afford to pay out of current savings and assets, what you can be expected to earn during college, and what you can be expected to borrow against future earnings. </p>

<p>For the most part, the colleges will not make long-tem loans to your parents themselves. (And that is what paying $200,000 in $10,000 installments means.) And neither will anyone else, unless there are sufficient assets or income to back up the loans. Note that, at 5% interest, which is low for an unsecured personal loan, a $200,000 loan will never be paid off at all if the payments are $10,000/year.</p>

<p>If your parents can only afford $10,000/year, and neither they nor you have valuable assets sitting around you can sell or otherwise monetize, you will need significant financial aid, either/both in the form of grants and loans. You really shouldn’t borrow more than $20-30,000 to finance your undergraduate education, and you aren’t going to be able to earn more than a few thousand dollars per year towards your education while you are in college. So you will need large grants.</p>

13

<p>Sorry I should have elaborated more! While Harvard, Yale, etc. are not need aware like some of the others, they do not commit to meeting 100 percent of financial need for internationals. Therefore, it is important that Parkhead applies to schools where he is above the average gpa, sat, etc. because he will be more likely to receive aid there. </p>

<p>Parkhead, of your family can afford 10k per year, I recommend that you apply to some lower ranked schools where you have a better chance at aid. You should also apply to top schools, because your ECs and grades are excellent, but it is good to have some back ups in case you end up not being able to afford a top school.</p>

14

<p>alwaysleah: Harvard and Yale DO commit to meeting 100% of financial need for internationals (at least as they define need). In fact, a fairly high number of colleges commit to meeting 100% of financial need for internationals, it’s just that most of them take that into account when they are making their admission decisions. Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Dartmouth, Amherst and a few others both commit to meeting full need for admitted students AND to being need-blind in the admission process.</p>

<p>There may be some number of lower-ranked colleges willing to give full aid to international applicants on a merit/competitive basis, but I am not certain who they are, and if you know maybe you should provide that information.</p>

15

<p>Allright guys, I think I got the main difference between financial aid types. Nevertheless, some problems occured as I was starting my application preperation.</p>

<ol>
<li>Does the teacher evaluation only have to present the academic potential, or is the inclusion of EC’s by the teacher also needed (referring to the CommonApp)?</li>
<li>Is it necessary to attach an evaluation of your school principal additionally?</li>
<li>Would it give a significant boost to you in the admission process, if you mention that you know a Harvard professor personally?</li>
</ol>

<p>Thanking you in advance </p>

<p>Parkhead</p>

16

<p>I just forget to put another question concerning the SAT and SAT II.</p>

<ol>
<li>Is it possible for me to take the SAT and the SAT II before I officially apply to college in August via CommonApp? The precise question would be, if those test score will get accepted respectively regard by colleges for the official application period.</li>
</ol>

<p>As I described in the OP I am of German-Turkish descent. Is there the possibility for me to take SAT II German. I was irritated because Harvard strongly recommends not to take a test in your native language. However, I regard Turkish as my native language as it is mostly spoken at home. What am I supposed to do?</p>

17

<ol>
<li><p>Yes, you can take SATs any time. Many 11th graders take it SAT Is the fall or spring of 11th grade, and either do not take it again if they are satisfied, or take it again in the fall of 12th grade. SAT IIs are often taken in June of 11th grade. Your test scores will be accepted even if you haven’t created an account yet, or done anything else to apply. It is completely normal for students to complete their testing before they start applying anywhere.</p></li>
<li><p>Harvard probably won’t disqualify your application if you take the German SAT II, but you will be weakening your own case very substantially if you do that. Whether German is your native language or not, no one is going to be impressed if you do well on a German test. If you have a perfect score, the reaction will be, “Of course, that’s really his or her principal language, so the score SHOULD be perfect. Not so impressive.” If you have less than a perfect score, you will look really bad. Either way, you lose.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>Meanwhile, you won’t have done anything to show what you have really learned in school, or to show that you can take somewhat sophisticated content tests in English. You should take tests that show the breadth and depth of what you have learned in school. It will be harder than taking a test in German, and you may not score as well, but you will help yourself more than if you got a top score on the German test. </p>

<p>And if you are applying to Harvard, you should not pass up a chance to help yourself. It does you very little good to be one of the 20,000+ applicants whose applications show that they have the basic qualifications necessary to do well at Harvard. You need to be one of the 2,000 applicants Harvard actually accepts. So you need to do everything you can to show why you are special, not just meeting the minimum requirements.</p>