chance my son please

Colleges and Universities A-Z College of William and Mary
1

<p>W & M "looks" like the perfect school for my son, we will visit soon. It is the only OOS school he will apply for, so what do you think are his chances?
OOS cauc male (NC) public school.
4.36 GPA (w) 3.6 (uw) 1260 SAT /1910 (600 cr, 660 M, 650 W)
top 10 % ( 31 of 334)
3 AP Classes junior year , 4 AP's Sr yr</p>

<p>Ice Hockey, Competitive travel teams age 10 thru present
* Varsity Ice Hockey (10, 11, 12)<br>
National Honor Society (11, 12)<br>
*French Club (10, 11, 12)
* President (12)
*Math Debate Club (10, 11, 12)
* Vice President (12)
*Music Interest Club (10, 11, 12)
*North Carolina State University Summer Engineering Program,
(Summer 2007)
*European Travel, 16 day tour of France, Italy, England and Switzerland (summer 2007)
*Assembly of high performance Cobra kit car with his dad
Drummer 7 years
Guitar Player 7 years
small amout of voluntter work, and jobs for 2 summers</p>

<p>thank you!</p>

2

<p>Your son has a distinct advantage applying to William and Mary in that they get twice as many applications from girls as they do boys and they're not shy about admitting that this means that they give boys preference. Personally I think it's a lawsuit waiting to happen (we're talking about a public school, after all), but that's an issue for another day.</p>

<p>Your son's SAT scores are, on the other hand, on the low end even for in state applicants. His grades are strong but not over the top, as the large majority of admitted students are in the top 10 percent. His extracurriculars are similarly strong but not extraordinary. Finally, he's not applying early decision, which makes a big difference at William and Mary.</p>

<p>In short, I'd say that if your son were a girl I'd give him less than a 10 percent chance of admission, but as a boy I'd say 20 percent. He should not get his heart set on William and Mary.</p>

3

<p>as an OOS student with those SATs, I think your son is fighting an uphill battle to get into WM. That said, he could still get in.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Your son has a distinct advantage applying to William and Mary in that they get twice as many applications from girls as they do boys and they're not shy about admitting that this means that they give boys preference. Personally I think it's a lawsuit waiting to happen (we're talking about a public school, after all), but that's an issue for another day.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>the stats for admitted girls and guys are not significantly different. I don't think you will be able to make a legitimate argument that the makeup of a school should directly reflect the applicant pool.</p>

4

<p>Parent 2009, your comments about a "lawsuit waiting to happen" are out of line on this thread. William and Mary does not openly state that it gives preference to boys in the application process. You would have to mention any other college or university in the US since more girls are applicants across the board. What to do? The males admitted to William and Mary hold their own in the application process and are highly qualified. You comments smack of ignorance.......as if to say that the boys admitted are less qualified than the girls. You made a general statement that is false.</p>

<p>Peace,
Pedsox</p>

5

<p>When I said that William & Mary's admissions policy favors boys, that this is a "lawsuit waiting to happen," but that it is also an "issue for another day" I really meant all of just that. I have no interest in debating the legal merits of William and Mary's admissions policy on this forum; I was merely advising the original poster of the indisputable fact that her son was in a favorable position because of his gender. </p>

<p>Contrary to pedsox's post, there is simply no question that William and Mary's admissions policy takes gender into account. William & Mary's admissions director is on record as conceding as much, saying that it's necessary to favor men because so many more women than men apply to the college and the college wants to be the "College of William and Mary, not the College of Mary and Mary." There is probably no public college in America where the admit rate -- one out of four for women and one out of 2.5 for men -- is so heavily skewed in favor of boys, and this is not a fact that has been lost on any Virginia high school guidance counselor. </p>

<p>William and Mary defends the policy by pointing out that admitted women have higher high school grades but admitted men have (slightly) higher average SATs. But this merely confirms that the school is using different standards for men (slightly higher performance on a three-hour test) than it does for women (four years of working harder in high school). I'm willing to bet that whether this presents a legal issue is something that the college has at least thought about.</p>

<p>I never suggested that a lawsuit would necessarily be successful. I don't know enough of the facts to know either way. But to suggest that William and Mary does not press a thumb on the scale for boys is contrary to all of the publicly available evidence.</p>

6

<p>Does William and Mary recruit for ice hockey? If so, this might help.</p>

7

<p>The boys admitted to William and Mary are EQUALLY as qualified as the admitted girls. It may be a fact that more qualified girls apply.......but to imply that William and Mary has to make concessions for their male applicants is false. A 4.0 is a 4.0 is a 4.0............get it now? The admitted males are lacking in nothing and the admitted females have nothing over them academically or otherwise.</p>

<p>Troublemaker! You failed at your attempt to backpeddle. </p>

<p>Pedsox</p>

8

<p>Pedsox, rather than engage in name-calling why not attempt to engage in intelligent debate supported by facts rather than platitudes? How do you know that what I'm suggesting is necessarily false? Do you have access to all the data? Can you explain why no other public university listed in U.S. News' top 20 public colleges has anywhere near the skewed admissions statistics that William and Mary has despite the fact that the majority of them also have many more women applying than men? </p>

<p>Chapel Hill had 12,000 women apply in 2007 and only 8000 men. They accepted exactly 34.8 percent of each. U-Va had more women than men apply but still accepted a HIGHER percentage of women (36.4 percent) than men (33.7). JMU had MANY more women apply (11,000 versus 7300), but still accepted 68 percent of the women and only 56 percent of the men. And Mary Washington, which like William and Mary has two women apply for every man, had essentially identical acceptance rates by gender (81 percent for men and 79.9 percent for women). </p>

<p>Here are the numbers for the same year (2007 applicants) at William and Mary (which are highly consistent with prior years): 6,923 women applying, 1,942 (28.1 percent) accepted; 3,930 men applying, 1,713 (43.6 percent) accepted. </p>

<p>With all of the cross-applications going on between U-Va, William & Mary, JMU, Mary Washington, and to a lessor extent Chapel Hill, how can it be that all of these women are finding proportionate places at these other colleges (especially U-Va!) but not William and Mary? I find it hard to believe that William and Mary is uniquely attracting an inordinate amount of applications from under-qualified women vis-a-vis these other colleges, particularly given its reputation in Virginia for highly rigorous academics. </p>

<p>At a minimum there's no denying that the numbers look odd, and when coupled with all of the press reports about how much trouble William and Mary has had attracting male applicants it's not unreasonable to worry whether there's something rotten in Denmark. </p>

<p>Finally, I'm not trying to be ignorant or be a trouble-maker. I'm merely supporting my advice to the original poster that males have a distinct advantage (legal or illegal) when it comes to William and Mary admissions. If you or anyone else can offer an alternative explanation I'm all ears. I'd be particularly interested in seeing data that shows not how admitted men compare to admitted women, but how DENIED women compared to admitted men. That, after all, is really the point.</p>

9

<p>ok, so better that he is a male.....still could use a few more opinions before applying.
Thanks, Hunt, for the hockey suggestion, but he feels it's best to get a feel for the academics before deciding to play competitive hockey!</p>

10

<p>You are even more off base to assume that the denied girls at William and Mary (or anywhere else) are more qualified than the admitted boys. I'll say it again...........a 4.0 is a 4.0 is a 4.0 is a 4.0. This alone makes a lawsuit without any real merit. Is it fair that a less qualified African American will get in with lower stats? Is it fair that an althlete will get in with lower stats? Is it fair that a faculty connection or a generous alumni will get in over a more qualified applicant? Welcome to the world of dealing with "what is". If your daughter is as smart and accomplished as you've been boasting about on CC, then she will be an easy shoo in to Harvard, right? So now worries. Would your daughter not want to meet any smart males while she is in college? Does she want to go to an all girls college? </p>

<p>Don't bad mouth William and Mary. Don't do it. By the way, it's UVA not U-Va. Maybe let your daughter navigate some of this on her own? </p>

<p>Peace and with Tribe pride,
Pedsox</p>

11

<p>1.) Pedsox is my favorite troll ever.</p>

<p>2.) WM does not have a varsity hockey team (or even a rink. Our hockey team has to travel pretty far to practice.)</p>

<p>3.) I'd give 2 to 1 odds against the OP's son, but if he could get his SAT scores up to 2100+ it would help a lot.</p>

12

<p>
[quote]
William and Mary defends the policy by pointing out that admitted women have higher high school grades but admitted men have (slightly) higher average SATs. But this merely confirms that the school is using different standards for men (slightly higher performance on a three-hour test) than it does for women (four years of working harder in high school).

[/quote]
</p>

<p>good point. Maybe they should hold the girls to the same SAT standards that they hold guys to so they stop letting in the stupid kids.</p>

13

<p>Accepting and actually enrolling are two different stories.</p>

<p>Maybe those other schools admit equal or greater %'s of the women applicants knowing that many of them will not enroll. Then the actual enrollment numbers end up 55/45 in favor of the girls.</p>

<p>Maybe W&M knows from past years that a high percentage of accepted girls will enroll, and so they can admit a lower relative percentage of girl applicants compared to boys.</p>

<p>Can't really explain my logic, but I can understand it!! lol</p>

<p>On the O/P's question, I agree with everyone else, 1 in 5, maybe 1 in 4 chance of acceptance.</p>

14

<p>On a final note, consider that all competitive colleges and universities usually have way more highly qualified male and female applicants than they have space for. You would find yourself down to splitting hairs and even that wouldn't work. How about Harvard? Think of all the straight A, perfect ACT/SAT's scores with a gazillion interesting and original EC's applicants that MUST be turned down for lack of space. </p>

<p>Since a school is co-ed with far too many perfectly qualified applicants, why not consider the male female ratio as just one of many factors that go into making a well rounded environment? </p>

<p>Parent 2009, I am totally amazed at the verbage you spewed about William and Mary. Someone less astute might even think that you knew what you were talking about..................however, you couldn't be more misinformed.</p>

<p>William and Mary has been around a long time. </p>

<p>Pedsox</p>

15

<p>Is it that Williamsburg is boring? Is it that the school is too liberal arts-ish? Is it a lack of athletics? A combination of these?</p>

<p>Pedsox, why are you the self proclaimed expert on W&M? </p>

<p>My opinion is that the surrounding town is really boring; there is a deli (yawn), but really, I was surprised at how little was there, once you got past the tourist-y part of Williamsburg. </p>

<p>C-ville and U of MW are surrounded by a more interesting town scene, closer to skiing, for example, and closer to more stuff to do.</p>

<p>Just my opinion. I personally love W & M but am trying to think of why so few boys apply there. Like most of USA education, maybe it is just geared more to girls and how they learn and thrive academically.</p>

16

<p>If your son is interested in playing ice hockey in college, then maybe a school
with an ice hockey program would be something to think about.</p>

17

<p>I'm with Parent2009. Lots of schools attract more applicants of one gender than another. If the end result is a 50/50 balance in the incoming class, simple math says that the gender with fewer applications has a better chance of admission. It does not follow that the class will have inferior students from the gender with fewer applications, since most excellent schools reject large numbers of applicants who are well-qualified to attend. Pedsox is correct in this, but nothing in Parent2009's original post suggests otherwise.</p>

18

<p>Linda,</p>

<p>Across the board, at most every college, more females are applying rather than males. Why would it be "easier" for a male applicant to be accepted at William and Mary? Don't foget that he is competing against way more qualified males than they have space for.............at the very least.</p>

<p>"Self proclaimed expert"..................uhhhh no, I never said that. But I do know that it's not a fact that a denied female is always trumped by a stupid boy/less qualified boy. Could be that a less than stellar football player got her spot, could be that a fast runner took her place, could be that a female with lower stats had an intersting list of EC's which could add to the student body, could be that another female had a better "hook". Could be that a Paris Hilton of a girl has a rich alumni daddy who donated a building. It's ignorant to assume that your genius daughter was denied because of a less qualified boy. William and Mary has pleny of qualifed male applicants. William and Mary has far more qualified male applicants than they have space for. A applicant with perfect stats may have only that to offer a college.............and as CC has proven, they are a dime a dozen. Hey, didn't you know that it's the adcoms job to create an interesting and diverse environment? Huh????? A balanced student body is a good thing. Do you even know what a "hook" is and how it can trump even the best of stats. Wake up and smell the coffee and quityerbeotching.</p>

<p>Come on board to the way things are and find another college to smack down. William and Mary will always lead the pack..............nobody ever kicks a dog when it's down.</p>

<p>I'm no expert. However I am a senior with a very good GPA in the Mason School of Business. Already offered employment with an MBA option at a large well-known company. </p>

<p>A lot of complainers have ugly, smart, reclusive daughters that have nothing but their 4.5's to offer William and Mary.............or life for that matter. Don't blame William and Mary for not taking them on..............a 4.0 is a 4.0 is a 4.0. That's all ya need to know. Now go on Harvards page and continue the cat fight.</p>

<p>Peace Out,
Pedsox</p>

19

<p>My issue with you is that in these threads, you come across as an expert in the
admissions process at W &M, such that I wondered if you were an intern in the
Admissions Office or an Admissions Officer. Portraying yourself in this manner is
unethical, and your pronouncements over various OP's chances may have the
effect of influencing prospective applicants to NOT apply because of your responses.</p>

<p>Remember, many of the folks asking for chances are 16 and 17 years old. I assume
you are an adult or of legal age.</p>

<p>So if you would kindly state that you have no ties to the Admissions Office and are
acting as a W&M student, it would put your opinions in context. If you insist upon
representing W&M, then maybe you should also use your full legal name.</p>

20

<p>"Self proclaimed expert"..................uhhhh no, I never said that. But I do know that it's not a fact that a denied female is always trumped by a stupid boy/less qualified boy. Could be that a less than stellar football player got her spot, could be that a fast runner took her place, could be that a female with lower stats had an intersting list of EC's which could add to the student body, could be that another female had a better "hook". Could be that a Paris Hilton of a girl has a rich alumni daddy who donated a building. It's ignorant to assume that your genius daughter was denied because of a less qualified boy. William and Mary has pleny of qualifed male applicants. William and Mary has far more qualified male applicants than they have space for. A applicant with perfect stats may have only that to offer a college.............and as CC has proven, they are a dime a dozen. Hey, didn't you know that it's the adcoms job to create an interesting and diverse environment? Huh????? A balanced student body is a good thing. Do you even know what a "hook" is and how it can trump even the best of stats. Wake up and smell the coffee and quityerbeotching.</p>

<p>Exactly -- which is why your responses to "chances" always jump on a kid's GPA.</p>