Chances at W & M? (and compare to UVA)

Colleges and Universities A-Z College of William and Mary
1

<p>My son is out of state, from a highly rated public high school in Florida.</p>

<p>His SAT scores are as follows:</p>

<p>CR 800
writing 800
math 700</p>

<p>ACT-34</p>

<p>His gpa is only 3.6 or 3.7 unweighted, but that puts him in the top 5% of his class (barely, by two people).</p>

<p>His weighted gpa is around a 4.3.</p>

<p>He has taken eight AP classes, and has received four 5's, two 4's, and two 3's. The 3's are in calculus and physics.</p>

<p>The others are in liberal arts subjects.</p>

<p>When it comes to English and Political Science, I really think he is close to being a genius.</p>

<p>He is very intellectual, and reads all sorts of esoteric books (for "fun") on topics such as comparative world mythologies, and linguistics, way beyond my comprehension (and I have four college degrees) </p>

<p>His ECs are not particularly strong, at least compared to the "stars" on CC, but he has been doing debate for years now, and travels to all sorts of tournaments, and goes to "debate camp" every summer. He has also attended various Duke TIP programs in creative writing every summer. He has become extremely knowledgeable about current events because of the requirements of debate, as he reads The Economist, and Foreign Affairs, and stuff like that.</p>

<p>He has zero interest in sports, and while a very handsome kid, is still a bit of a loner with respect to kids his own age (he is certainly not a party person). With adults, he is great.</p>

<p>Does he have a shot at WM, being out of state?</p>

<p>And given how I have described him, would WM be a good fit for him?</p>

<p>And also, since WM and UVA are both highly ranked public universities, why would someone tend to pick one over the other?</p>

2

<p>Your son’s academic credentials sound first-rate. He’s taken great courses (completing AP Physics and AP Calc before the senior year is no joke), gotten good grades as indicated by his class rank and has outstanding standardized testing. </p>

<p>Is debate the only EC he’s a part of? TIP programs and the like are great but summer activities do not carry the same weight as academic year ECs. Because schools like W&M and UVA have so many outstanding candidates who academic credentials are all super strong, personal qualities like ECs, letters of rec, essays, backgrounds, experiences, etc. all play a large part in our admission processes. There are some debate programs that do take an inordinate amount of hours per week and we understand that that can limit access to other ECs. W&M looks for students to have shown dedication and commitment to ECs (having continued some throughout their tenure in HS) and leadership or distinction within that realm. </p>

<p>Most students can find their niche at W&M. Students here are absolutely intellectual but also enjoy getting involved, making friends and having fun. W&M is about a community (a community of students, faculty and staff who all work together to make this place great). Here your son will have many opportunities to interact and research with faculty but he will also hopefully find a peer group with whom he can connect and thrive. That is essential to a great W&M experience.</p>

<p>As to your last questions, W&M and UVA are both outstanding schools. The biggest difference is in size. UVA has more students, W&M has fewer. Both are Div I schools but UVA’s larger size allows it to have a larger sports program. W&M is a more residential campus because of its smaller size. Some students really like both schools and some prefer one to the other. We’d encourage your son to visit both and see which one he feels best at.</p>

3

<p>There is always debate over whether W&M or UVA is “better”. I don’t think anyone could go wrong with either; it pretty much depends on whether someone wants a larger school or a smaller school, with the various plusses and minuses that go with either option. My own kids were accepted at both schools, but decided on W&M because they preferred: smaller residential campus (most students live on campus all 4 years), few or no TAs teaching classes, more opportunities for undergrad research, campus traditions, smaller classes, and not to be downplayed, fewer of their high school classmates going there. I may have missed a few, but overall I definitely know they just liked the “feel” of W&M. D has graduated, and S has finished 1 year, but both are extremely happy with the decision to attend W&M. </p>

<p>If I had to pick something they wished they could change I think they might have preferred the wider selection of classes at UVA. However, the research opportunities at W&M have far outweighed that. As a freshman my S worked with a professor both semesters on research in S’s chosen field and S was invited to present a paper based on his research. I just find that truly amazing, and the opportunities are only going to improve as he gets more experience. If you post your question on the UVA board you will hear the other side of the coin; really, it depends on individual fit and taking advantage of the opportunities each school offers.</p>

4

<p>I think he’d be likely to get in. I also think he’d find many people similar to himself at W&M. The College embraces that sort of public intellectualism so he would be among peers. There is also no pressure to be involved in the sports or party/frat scenes if one does not wish. W&M’s relatively small student population and lack of graduate programs presents unique opportunities to work with professors on projects and receive guidance and involvement in independent research.</p>

5

<p>In regards to the differences between W&M and UVA, my brother goes to UVA and I go to W&M. Both are very fine schools with dedicated and intelligent student bodies, but when I was making my decision, the websites said a lot. UVA’s was much more traditional and straightforward, whereas W&M’s had a sense of humor and quirk about it. And in my experience (though there are probably several factors contributing to this), UVA students are more traditional, almost “partying” types (while still remaining smart), whereas W&M kids are a little more offbeat and quirky. Some may disagree – but that’s my experience.</p>

6

<p>Thanks for your response.</p>

<p>In answer to your question, his only significant EC is debate. It is very time consuming, in that he participates in lots of tournaments, some in Florida, and some out of state, and when he goes out of state, he typically will miss one or two days of school. To date, in a typical tournament, he typically comes out #5 in a group of 20, but this year, now that he is a senior, I anticipate he may start winning. When he participates in a tournament, there is a lot of “catch-up” academic work to do. Plus, the activity is year round. His debate team is considered top notch down here in Florida. And of course, he has to do his required minimum service hours.</p>

<p>He is currently working on starting a literary magazine at his high school, but it hasn’t happened yet. He has published some poems in some Florida publications.</p>

<p>He has gone to “debate camp” every summer to improve his skills, which is quite extensive from a time perspective----- 8am to 8pm, every night, including Saturdays, and a 1/2 day on Sunday. And has done TIP every summer.</p>

<p>I think he could makethe tennis team, as he has been taking lessons since he was a little boy (and has a great backhand !!!), but at least to date, has decided that it simply wasn’t worth the time commitment, because it would interfere with his academics. He takes a very tough schedule, all APs, and is often up until midnight, or even 3am, doing school work. But if he did make the team, he would not be a star. </p>

<p>Like many of your potential applicants, he first got the idea of attending W & M when we visited Colonial Williamsburg together.</p>

<p>I have been told that admitting a group of kids to a college class is like casting a play, and that you need varied types to fill the various roles.</p>

7

<p>That is a good analogy. We have many competing interests when building a class. We consider the individual merits of the individual applicant, we consider the incoming class we’re building and try to make it as diverse and intellectual and talented as possible, we consider the College as a whole and its goals for enrollment and as a state institution we also have to consider the wishes of the Commonwealth. </p>

<p>There are places in our class for students who do very few ECs but do the ECs to a higher degree than is usual and we have places in our class for those jack-of-all-trades students who are more “well rounded”.</p>

<p>The Common App does ask students to provide hours per week and weeks per year for their activities. We do understand that some debate programs can take up to 30 hours per week or more so we consider that when evaluating a student’s overall resume. We do also look at summer programs but because students are not also committed to school work during the summer, most summer ECs do not carry the same weight as those that go on during the academic year.</p>