Chance of getting in to Oxbridge as a science major?

Student Lounge International Students
1

<p>Hey,</p>

<p>I'm a Canadian citizen(11th Grade) who's dreamed about going to the UK for a few years.</p>

<p>I really want to study medicine, but I've realized that it would be really hard...I heard that AP Chemistry isn't enough for UK Univs' Medicine programs, because UK students to the CHEM HL or something like that which is higher level than AP Chesmitry...</p>

<p>So just to line out my grades and scores.</p>

<p>I've always thought of myself as a science major but my school's lack of classes and counselor f****** me up in the ass.. so I have a lot of unrelated AP's.</p>

<p>I went to an American school for 2 years(9~10)</p>

<p>I had 3.5 GPA(9th grade),
3.9 GPA(10th Grade).
My new Canadian school's started 2 weeks ago and classes here are really much relaxing/easier, so I'm guessing maybe at least 90~93% average.</p>

<p>I had following AP tests done
AP Economics X2 - 5
AP Environmental Science -4
AP World History-4</p>

<p>I'm taking these this year(11th grade)
AP Biology
AP Calculus AB(going to take the BC Exam, though)
AP Psychology(all about the brain, thought it would help me get into science courses)
Honors Chemistry, Physics
English, Socials and all that stuff.</p>

<p>12th grade
AP Chemistry
AP Physics
+Any other AP's that might help(suggestions please!)</p>

<p>SAT Subject Tests
Math 2C-800
Biology-790
Chem/Physics-finishing this on May/June</p>

<p>SAT
Got a 2190, planning on getting a score 2300+ on October/November/December/January March</p>

<p>ECs
400 hours at local hospital
Lab intern at UBC
Biology, Math, Brazilian Ju-jitsu clubs(Becoming the leader of these clubs next year)</p>

<p>I'm looking to major in Biology in Cambridge or Oxford, and then apply to a medical school in Canada or something. </p>

<p>I really want to apply as a medicine major, but I'm afraid I will entirely lose an opportunity to attend a school I really want to go.(I really want to apply to both Biology and Medicine, and see what happens, but that's obvs. not possible). </p>

<p>Help me? Any ways to go in to Medicine school? Chances of me getting into Oxbridge as a Biology/Chemistry major?</p>

2

<p>If you want to get into Cambridge, you are going to need at least five scores of “5” on AP tests. You MAY get into Oxford with only three scores of “5”, but I wouldn’t count on it.</p>

<p>An SAT subject test of 700 or more can be substituted for an “5” on an AP test. But I don’t think they will let you double up (SAT Biology and AP Biology together only count ONCE, not twice!!)</p>

<p>You need to start routinely getting “5” scores on your AP tests if you want to get into Oxbridge.</p>

<p>Somebody else will explain how different medical training in the UK is.</p>

3

<p>The trouble with applying for medicine in the UK as an international (apart from the limioted number of places for such and getting in in the first place) is that (unless you are a dual citizen of an EU country) you may find you are not going to be eligible for post-graduate training posts in hospitals which are essential to complete the medical training assuming you actually want to end up working as a doctor. So you would almost certainly be better off studying in the US or Canada. That said, it looks as though <em>at present</em> overseas medical students are being allowed to extend their visa for Foundation training (the couple of years immediately after the degree), but who knows what will be the case by the time you get to that stage?</p>

<p>Current BMA guidance on this issue: [BMA</a> - Essential UK immigration guide](<a href=“http://bma.org.uk/practical-support-at-work/immigration/uk-immigration-guide/graduates-of-uk-universities]BMA”>http://bma.org.uk/practical-support-at-work/immigration/uk-immigration-guide/graduates-of-uk-universities)</p>

4

<p>As far as getting into Oxford alone… they’ll probably ignore your 4s. Make sure to get 5s this year! They say they only need 3, but your application can only get stronger with more. </p>

<p>Also, as a side note, I would do some intensive studying if you plan on taking the AP Calc BC test but only took AB. There’s about 50% more material covered, and I found that most of the test was on the information I learned last. Just a tip :)</p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

5

<p>Oxford (same as all UK med schools) is only allowed to accept a set number of international students; Oxford’s quota is 14. Last year they had 1468 applicants, of whom 255 were international. After the BMAT was factored in, almost 30% of applicants were short-listed for interview, including 32 internationals (ie, a bit more than 10% of internationals). After interviews, 1 international applicant was offered a place. This is not unusual- on their roadshow, they say that they rarely take more than 1-2 international students for medicine per annum. Remember that ‘international’ doesn’t mean from the US, it means from the whole rest of the world. </p>

<p>Biological sciences, by contrast accepts 37% of applicants (sorry, couldn’t find an international/UK-EUbreakout). So, if your overall objective is to go to Oxford, the odds are substantially better in Biological Sciences than Medicine. </p>

<p>One thing, though: you refer to ‘majoring’ in Medicine or Biology. You probably already know this, but esp in the sciences it is really important that you understand it is not a ‘major’: it is 100% of what you will do. Sciences at Oxbridge are full on. If you are really passionate about biological sciences (or biomedical, or whatever science you apply to study) - if you eat, sleep, breath it- you will be a happy camper. If not, you might be happier doing a broader undergraduate course (Durham, for example, has a science course that is still demanding, and all science, but more flexible) and then doing medical school at home.</p>

6

<p>I would worry about your chances as a Natsci (Cambridge’s pure science course) with only one science AP. At Cam you spend first year studying science more generally (usually chem+physics+another science like materials OR chem+bio+another science). You can then specialise one way or the other (physics or bio). I feel they would be very concerned about your lack of demonstrated achievement in chem. If I were you I would self study for the Chem AP or the Chem SAT II (AP is more well regarded, if you feel you can handle it I’d do that). Also be certain to get a 5 on Calc BC or you will have very little to no chance of acceptance (math is incredibly important for the Cambridge course). </p>

<p>Overall oxford is a bit easier to get into from the US/Canada because they only require 3 5’s as opposed to Cambridge’s 5 fives but then more US/Canadians apply to Oxford because of this.</p>

7

<p>Yeah… But wouldn’t taking AP Physics/Chemistry in 12th grade at least give me a chance to get an offer? Like “You need to get 5’s on both physics and chemistry exams?”</p>

<p>Hmm… I thought thought of this… How about, I take those 4 exams(CalcAB/BC, Psychology, Biology, Physics, Chemistry), and then in 12th grade, I’ll take some English and easier courses, and then have a lot of spares/enough time to take courses at a local University? And that means University level Biology, Chemistry, Physics, Calculus? This actually sounds like a great idea, if I can self-study the following…in ONE YEAR!(ACTUALLY, LIKE 9 MONTHS)</p>

<p>AP Calc BC
AP Chemistry
AP Physics B
SAT Chem/Physics
SAT</p>

<p>Ooooh and I didn’t know that Cambridge wanted 5’s on 5AP’s…Hmmm…</p>

<p>But do I really need to do this much work just to get in to a biological science course in Cambridge? Or would this really make me competitive for the medicine program…</p>

8

<p>To be blunt, your chances for medicine in the UK are extremely small, and yes, you really would have to work that hard. It would be good practice, as Oxbridge medics work ferociously hard. As USCam notes, your application will be much stronger with more than 1 science & 1 math under your belt when you apply. Oxford may only require 3 APs, but I don’t know any Americans who got in with only three 5s (and I would be willing to bet that most Cam students had more than 5 5s by the time they matriculated). I know students who applied to Ox with 4 or more 5’s and were still required to get more to meet their conditions.</p>

9

<p>If you self study those sciences and perform well on them then your application would be much stronger. Yes, they may offer you a conditional offer based on your 12th grade AP tests (actually they almost certainly will at Cam, not sure about Oxford) but they would really, really rather see demonstrated achievement in multiple sciences BEFORE they decide whether you accept you or not. If you feel you can handle it, taking those courses at a local university of even Junior college and self studying for the APs/SATIIs would be great.</p>

10

<p>Thanks,</p>

<p>I’ve decided to take at least Physics+Calc BC by Junior year. If I finish SAT soon and i dont get chased around by it, maybe chem… I’m not sure, though, about chem. </p>

<p>I thank you so much you guys really “enlightened” me and motivated me to change my plans a lot. Now I can work a little harder. Got to go schedule my stuff, will come back by July/August and post again.</p>

<p>Thank you!</p>