Wow, it’s shocking for a school to be planning remote and announcing those plans so early. I wonder if it is unique to their student body, as a community college, perhaps they have a good share of older adult students who prefer online?? It may be a better model for that particular school, as opposed to a concern about covid??
@EmptyNestSoon2 @TomSrOfBoston
Harrisburg Area Community College is a community college in central Pennsylvania with five campuses. Central Pennsylvania is not very densely populated and is not the greatest area for commuter accessibility (so online / distance format may have more relative advantages for many students). If HACC is resource-limited in terms of being able to hire instructors, it may be able to offer one online / distance course instead of finding instructors for the same course at five campuses.
HACC’s web site says that “Fall 2021 classes will be taught through remote instruction and virtual learning except for classes approved to be on campus.” Could be that courses or portions of courses that are less suitable for online / distance education (e.g. labs, performing arts) may be more likely to be in person.
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That area of the country has been hit hard by Covid, at times, during the pandemic. Community colleges are already set up to have online sections of many courses, so they don’t have to reinvent the wheel to do mostly online. Plus, they don’t have dorms to fill, as do 4 yr colleges. Penn State announced that they’re going back to all in-person this summer, I believe.
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I’m afraid colleges will require students to get a vaccine if they want to return to dorm living, or in-person classes. Ohio State has been gloating about the fact that they are the leaders in testing students, now twice weekly!! Because the positivity rate went from .5% to 1%, (horrors!!)
Ohio State released they plan to have close to 75% classes in-person, but I’ll believe it when I see it. They have been famous for bait and switch for in-person classes from the start and through 2nd semester, as well as housing. Right now, current freshman are told they must live on campus again as sophomores. But I’ll bet the masking and grab n go food will continue come next fall.
Just curious, SCdreamin, why you say you’re afraid they will require vaccination, what you are concerned about? I’m not trying to be difficult; I really like to learn/hear all different perspectives.
I’m actually hoping my kids’ school will require vaccination, and I guess my reasoning is that I do believe the vaccines are safe and effective, and I do think that if the kids are all vaccinated, they can get back to normal which I am really eager for.
I read a podcast transcript with Dr. Ashish Jha of Brown University’s School of Public Health, and he indicated that in their discussions it appears likely they will require vaccinations of students, although they aren’t sure if they will require vaccinations of professors/staff. I wonder if there is a legal difference/different implications for those 2 groups, there must be. I think it is highly likely that the vast vast majority of faculty will opt to get vaccinated anyway, but there may be a sizable chunk of staff that do not. But if all the kids are vaccinated, that at least gives them protection, so it should be fine and the only people who will remain with any real risk would be people who of their own choice choose to remain unvaccinated.
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If an individual wishes to decide not to have a vaccine that is their right. It’s also the right of colleges to require vaccines. Sometimes there are consequences for your decisions. I don’t see why the colleges should allow individuals who choose to be unvaccinated (as opposed to those with allergic reactions, etc) on their campuses where they can potentially spread the disease to others. It’s really pretty simple - if you choose not to be vaccinate, you can stay home or maybe find some different school that doesn’t care. I hope my son’s college requires it for the fall.
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I think if colleges require it, then it should be required for everyone- professors, staff, students etc… Why should there be exceptions for certain individuals?
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A big problem though is schools won’t really know what they are going to do until closer to the fall start time. By then, we all will have made a big emotional, academic, financial, etc commitment to our children’s schools of choice. For whatever reasons people choose not to have the vaccine, it will be a huge blow to them if their school of choice then denies them entry in-person and it is too late to switch to another school.
It’s all a crap shoot right now. Many schools are saying they will open in-person this fall, but what if they find they can’t? I don’t want to pay full tuition for online school. But I also don’t want to make my kid defer a year or withdraw from a school if he doesn’t want to.
Potential dilemmas for either scenario.
Well, those are the choices the hs class of 2020 had. I’d think through all scenarios if I were him.
There’s also the possibility of requiring vaccinations to live on campus, and strict testing measures for those who don’t. It might not be an either/or.
If your child feels the same way as you do, they should plan for the possibility of not being permitted on campus in the fall. It is very possible that schools will require covid vaccination, in order to protect older people and people with risk factors.
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I still have my blinders up at this point as I am just really really hoping that in-person school happens. My son works part time in our local grocery store, so he has been lucky to get the vaccine already. That’s one hurdle down.
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That’s not “misinformation”, that’s “revising guidelines” as new information is discovered. Recommendations are made based on the knowledge at the time and then as new knowledge is acquired those recommendations get revised. That’s the whole basis of the scientific process.
And I take any definitive statement beginning with the statement “I believe” to be absent of fact. You are of course entitled to your “beliefs” but that doesn’t make it factually true.
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The government knew masks worked. They just didn’t want non healthcare people buying masks when there weren’t enough for people on the front lines. Once you admit you lied it’s a bit tougher to get buy in the next time.
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I agree. Legally, there should not be the ability to mandate a “vaccine” that is still considered experimental & has only been approved under emergency usage. Some consideration needs to be given as to who is giving guidance and possible conflict of interests ( for example who holds patents on the vaccines and was involved in the funding of the Wuhan lab). Also, be aware that the pharmaceutical companies producing the vaccines are shielded from liability currently as they are under “emergency” usage. Think about what this implies before pushing for anyone to be REQUIRED to receive it. Look at the CDC website and the number of deaths listed as due to the vaccine (surprisingly high!)
Taking this vaccine should be a personal choice. The virus is 99% survivable. Think about how mRNA vaccine technology works. With these vaccines, basically you are using the mRNA as an inducer for your body’s DNA to start producing the spike protein. As a result, your immune system will be activated to produce antibodies against something your own cell produced. In essence, you are inducing your immune system to react to your own cells as though they are producing something foreign to your body. This is basically what happens in any number of auto-immune diseases (ex such as lupus, type I diabetes, psoriasis, rheumatoid arthritis, multiple sclerosis, etc, etc). The cause of autoimmune disease(of which we do not fully understand the trigger -although virus stimulation is a current theory) is that the body’s own immune system inappropriately targets part of the body as if it is foreign or not “self” - thus leading to organ damage/destruction. How are we to know if 5-15+ years down the road, those who take mRNA vaccines maybe may have higher incidence of autoimmune diseases brought on by this artificial stimulation of the immune system to start recognizing ones own cells as “foreign”.
There is no way to know at this time. I know this is all theoretical and I am in no way an “antivaxer”, but without animal studies there are still unanswered questions. It may give pause to someone with a strong family history of autoimmune disease and to me that is legitimate.
There are also issues based on the usage of cell lines derived from aborted fetus’, such that even the Catholic Church has given guidance on this and while not advising against the vaccines, has acknowledged this fact and advised preference against the J & J version. Again, this may not matter to everyone, but should IMO be a personal CHOICE, and in no way should be a mandate, especially for the college-age population which is statistically more likely to die in a car crash on the way to getting the vaccine, than they are from dying from the virus.
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What is your source for making this statement? There have been 1,637 deaths (.0018%) among people who have had covid vaccines, and NONE of the deaths have been attributed to the vaccines. Per the CDC:
“ A review of available clinical information including death certificates, autopsy, and medical records revealed no evidence that vaccination contributed to patient deaths”
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However, some large percentage (10-87% in various studies) of recovered COVID-19 patients have long term after effects (such as breathing difficulties and/or loss of smell/taste; some have breathing difficulties so severe that significant physical activity or exercise is impossible, greatly worsening quality of life and imposing long term health problems due to forced inactivity).
For comparison, polio has a 99+% survival rate and a 99% chance of full recovery. But the unlucky 1% who suffered permanent paralysis (including those who needed to live in iron lungs for life) and sometimes died were sufficient incentive for people to seek vaccination against polio.
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People dying around the same time as getting a COVID-19 vaccine is not surprising when many of the COVID-19 vaccine doses were given to nursing home residents who were already in poor health. That does not mean that the vaccine had anything to do with them dying.
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Completely agree, UCB. Sadly, people do just die, sometimes unexpectedly and with no obvious cause. A very nice 55 year old man in my town died last fall suddenly of an aneurysm/stroke. If he had coincidentally had a vaccine in the weeks prior, people might have (wrongly) attributed it to the vaccine, when it was something that was going to happen for some other (still unknown) reason. Elderly people die after eating breakfast; do we attribute their deaths to breakfast food? Just because some people die after having the vaccine does not mean they died BECAUSE of the vaccine. And as you mention, a lot of our early vaccinated folks were elderly. But it’s not just elderly. Younger people also die, regularly. So I agree with you and MWFan that there really isn’t any evidence in the US of deaths attributable to the vaccine. There have been allergic reactions that have been dealt with (less than 5 reactions per million), but I think they all recovered. I checked out the CDC website as you suggested, woarble , and cannot find any evidence of deaths “due to covid”.
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Yes, there have been 1637 deaths among those who have had the vaccine. Yes, many have been those who are in nursing homes and may have died anyway. The same logic can be applied to death due to covid among those in nursing homes. Maybe a good number of those were people who were going to die anyway? My point is we do not know. You and I can look at the same data and view it completely differently as we are viewing it though our own lens, and each have our own built in bias’. My thought is that is is pre-mature to to say “definitively” that the vaccine did not contribute. I take what the government/CDC tells me not as gospel but use it as a basis to do my own research. I am skeptical by nature. As a physician, I am not the first one to prescribe a new therapy. I wait 6mths+ to see if additional side effects are found after more wide-spread use. I have been burnt by jumping on the bandwagon so to speak of a newly approved medication, only to have it then removed from the market due to very serious side-effects within 1 year of approval as it become more widely used. This has lead to my bias, as has the fact that I deal with patients who struggle with autoimmune diseases daily and have 20+ years experience with the devastating effects. I feel I have as good scientific understanding of the the immune system & know how much we still have to learn.
I don’t discount anyone’s long-term effects from covid or the seriousness of the disease in certain high-risk populations. However, as of the end of Feb. , the death rate in those under age 25 with covid is less than .2% & there have been 648 deaths in the 15-24 age group of people with covid. - unsure of how many of these had other underlying risk factors. Everyone needs to do a risk/benefit analysis for themselves. For many people the vaccines are the absolute right thing to do. However, I feel it is too early to MANDATE the vaccines in such an overall low risk age group. The other vaccines that are mandated, have been around much longer & there are the options to apply for an exception. For what ever reason, it seems with the COVID vaccines, people seem to feel personal choice has no validity.
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But what percentage of that age group has longer term after-effects after recovery?
The studies that I have seen suggest that the rate is quite high. Purely anecdotally, of the two people in that age group whom I know who had COVID-19, one has noticeable (cardiovascular) after-effects.