Woarble, I do agree with you about the nursing homes, though. I think around 42% of US covid deaths occurred in nursing homes, leaving approximately 300,000 outside nursing homes. I read a report yesterday that indicated that the median life expectancy upon entering a nursing home is 5 months (and 13 months for the average, as there are outliers that live for quite a while). Given that short time frame, I am inclined to see the tragedy of the nursing home deaths not so much THAT they died, but HOW they died (how unbelievably, shatteringly heartbreaking for people to be stuck alone without visitors, no loved ones at the end; I can’t stand it). And so obviously many/most of those nursing home deaths would have been occurring imminently anyway, so I agree with you on that point, and in my own head going forward I am mentally subtracting those numbers from the US death toll attributable to covid, while holding those people in my heart for the tragic, lonely ends they suffered.
No one here has said people don’t have personal choice. Just that sometimes choices have consequences. Seems simple.
Neither you nor I have seen the data of the 1,637 deaths. Each and every death has been thoroughly investigated and researched by the appropriate vaccine manufacturer, as well as the CDC/NIAID. I choose to trust that this vetting was thorough enough to determine the vaccine did not cause the death. It is in NO one’s interest to conclude that the vaccine did not cause the death, if in fact it was implicated.
I don’t disagree with you on possible long term effects, but will get vaccinated. If enough people don’t get vaccinated we will not be able to return to normalcy for a long time.
This is an excellent point. The isolation those in care facilities/hospitals are experiencing -especially at the end of life - is in my opinion actually cruel. My mother fell and broke her arm (she is 84). She was in the hospital for a week then sent to a rehab/nursing home facility for 2 weeks. She is blind. She could have NO VISITORS. She sat alone in a room with only PT& OT for 1/2 hr/day. She was not allowed to leave her room. Her food was put outside her door & then she had to come get it. It was significant work for the CNA’s to have to put on full PPE each time they enter a room so they just stand at the door and do not enter. This is despite the fact that she & they had been vaccinated. She was in significant pain from her arm brace being too tight & her arm swelling, cutting into her skin. It took over an hour with her calling the desk & myself calling & my dad calling to have someone come in and just loosen it because they don’t want to enter the room & use up the full body PPE unless absolutely necessary. I understand, I really do - but some of what is going on in this country related to covid defies common sense & basic human compassion. Thank you for listening to my rant. I will not step down from my soapbox.
I do agree that long-term effects from covid is a real concern. No info yet on if the vaccine will prevent this as they are not yet even sure if people who have had the vaccine are or are not even still “infectious.” The main endpoint I see on the vaccine studies is whether it reduced death or hospitalization. There is some recent question as to if those more at risk for “long-term” covid symptoms tend to be those who experience milder initial symptoms rather than those who end up hospitalized. Still a lot to learn.
I will note that unlike polio, covid tends to disproportionately effect older, rather than the younger population. Demographically, they are very different diseases.
Actually, it is very sure that people who have had the vaccine do not become “infectious”, meaning able to transmit Covid to others only by virtue of having been immunized.
It is true that those who are immunized still appear to have about a 5% chance of becoming infected, and possibly transmit that infection to others. This is why it is crucial that as many people as possible get immunized.
Anecdotally, when I got COVID in December, my symptoms were mild (chills, mainly) but in the ensuing weeks (and still now today), I constantly have that feeling that I do when I’m about to have a full blown cold- heaviness in the chest, heart palpitations, need to take a deep breath every once in awhile- plus constant low level fatigue. Not fun, but not totally debilitating. I also work in nursing homes as a psychologist, so I wear full PPE given that my work requires talking back and forth. Got the vaccine in January. Most residents got the vaccine but only about half the staff did. We are FINALLY starting to open up for visitors but because the staff that did not get the vaccine keep testing positive, the opening date for in-person visits keeps getting pushed back. My residents and their families are sick of it, and I wish the NYSDOH will revise their plans further so that even though staff may be getting sick, if a resident has had a vaccine, they should be able to see their families regardless, not have to wait until there are no staff COVID cases for two weeks. At this rate, it’ll be months before they can see their family, and it’s already been a year.
Most hospitals and medical facilities mandate that every employee get the flu shot. I don’t understand why the same is not being required for the Covid vaccine.
Seems like young and old both get COVID-19, and both have high rates of after-effects. Mainly in terms of death are old people more affected by COVID-19.
Many organizations are hesitant to require covid vaccines because they only have emergency approval, not full FDA approval…this is coming from their legal advisers.
Seems like the residents and their families should put pressure on the staff to get vaccinated, since the unvaccinated staff are preventing reopening (since the staff could infect the visitors).
But then perhaps after vaccine general availability, the nursing home can fully reopen for visitors, since then unvaccinated people (staff and visitors) will be taking voluntary COVID-19 risk by choice, rather than facing involuntary COVID-19 risk because of vaccine unavailability.
In nursing homes, the flu shot is not mandated. If you don’t want the flu shot, you have to wear a mask at work during flu season. Staff were more willing to take the flu shot but there always were a few who didn’t and wore a mask all day long.
Please stay on topic. Thanks.
UCLA had a zoom yesterday (there’s a link on their COVID-19 Resources page) in which they said that classes with more than 60 students are likely to be remote in the fall (50 minutes into the zoom for details). For freshmen and sophomore science majors, I believe that would include pretty much any required class. Pretty crushing for the current freshmen to face another year of this. Freshmen orientation sessions will also all be online again this year. They’re hoping to re-open housing with doubles (10-11K capacity) or triples (15K capacity if new construction is completed).
Seems odd… however, that would only necessarily apply to the lecture part of a large course, not the labs or discussions associated with the course.
Did they say who will get housing priority?
They actually weren’t clear about that whether or not discussion sections associated with 60+ student lectures would be in-person, which I found surprising. Still hoping they will be, of course.
No, sorry, they didn’t specify anything about housing priority. More to be revealed.
Being in higher education, the short answer is NOPE! Right now all staff here are working at home and classes are still almost exclusively online. It’ll get better as the vaccine is more widely available. Summer semester is around the corner and there’s been zero talk from the board on opening any further. When summer hits, there likely won’t be enough notice to prepare faculty for in-person classes in the fall. I work at a community college. That’s going to vary from school to school, but I wouldn’t expect normal this fall.
Wow, that is really surprising about UCLA. Berkeley recently said that the default instruction for the fall will be in person.
https://news.berkeley.edu/2021/03/16/an-update-on-uc-berkeleys-plans-for-the-fall-semester-2/
And across town from UCLA, USC is planning in person graduation this May.
Some schools are not trying very hard to return to normal.