<p>I want to study Economics. I am a Caucasian male from the west coast (who attends a boarding school) and Colgate is my - new - first choice school. I'm planning on applying Early Decision in the fall. My GPA is low but it has a good trend. It was around a 3.8 freshman year, a 3.5 sophomore year and a 4.0 junior year. As you can tell sophomore year was a difficult year for me, it was my first year at boarding school. Junior year I really challenged myself and I took 4 AP/IB classes (my school combines them): AP/IB US History, AP/IB English, IB SL Physics, IB ITGS. In addition I took TOK (Theory of Knowledge) and Chinese 1. I know that I can get good recommendations from this year, a lot of my teachers really liked me. My counselor also seems to like me a lot. Given the following stats would it be worth applying ED to Colgate or is it a waste? Keep in mind that I'll need FA (a significant amount). </p>
<p>Academic Info</p>
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<p>Co-Founder of my school's business club
Co-President of said business club
Founder of the Young Republicans Club at my school
Every summer so far I've spent about 20 hours a week working at my mom's CPA business
2 years JV Lacrosse
2 years JV Cross Country
2 Years Varsity ice hockey (12 years total, unlikely to play competitively in college)
Captain of my ice hockey team Junior year
Various awards for hockey regarding leadership, dedication etc...
300-400 hours total as a junior ice hockey coach
150 Hours refereeing ice hockey games
I've worked the past two summers as a councilor at a local hockey camp
I have created my own one on one ice hockey coaching service with 6 weekly clients
I worked 12-15 hours a week this school year at my ice hockey association and will continue to do so this summer</p>
<p>Sounds like you have a good shot. I wouldn’t worry too much about the aid, Colgate can be quite generous. I think the fact that you are West Coast gives you a leg up as it sets you apart from the typical Colgate applicant pool. Similarly, your extra curricular and especially your academic awards will be looked upon favorably. I say go for it.</p>
<p>Just out of curiosity, what is it about Colgate that makes it your top choice?</p>
<p>Applying ED means if you are admitted you will withdraw any applications you have sent to other schools, and will not apply anywhere else. You are agreeing to accept admission with whatever financial aid the school determines you need, according to their definition of your need. You will not be able to compare financial aid offers from other schools, because you will have withdrawn all other applications. If you are unable to attend Colgate with the financial aid they offer you, you will have to find a school that still has seats for first year students after everyone else has made their decisions, which often means community college. Or you could work for a year and then reapply to colleges. If this is acceptable to you and your family, and don’t forget to run this by your parents if you are expecting them to contribute to the cost of your college education, then apply ED. If you are uncomfortable with any of these ED requirements, then do not apply ED.</p>
<p>dunkswfur - Thanks for the advice. To answer your question: I’d really like to attend law school after my undergrad and I feel that Colgate will give me a solid foundation for law school. I really like the North East, and the size of the university helps too. It’s really a culmination of many factors.</p>
<p>dntw8up - I know what ED means. In addition, Colgate meets 100% of an applicants demonstrated need, and I can demonstrate need.</p>
<p>Some ED FA applicants are shocked at the low FA offer. But if Colgate is your one dream school (but you said new), and you’ll try to make the FA offer work no matter what it is, then go for it. If the FA offer just doesn’t work, you can decline it and apply RD elsewhere. Heed dntw8up’s cautions.</p>
<p>From my understanding, dntw8up paints way too grim a picture. If you apply ED, the choices are not Colgate or community college or waiting to see if all other seats are filled at other colleges before you have a chance. If you are accepted to Colgate ED, you will find out what your FA will be at that time (mid-December). If it’s unacceptable, you presumably will already be in the process of filling out other apps and will just continue to do so with the only caveat that come Spring, Colgate will no longer be an option among your choices.</p>
<p>From the Colgate web-site under fin aid FAQ’s:</p>
<p>Is Colgate “need-blind” in admission?
Colgate provides need-based financial aid to all admitted students who demonstrate need, but the admission process is not need-blind.</p>
<p>I believe this means that if you get in you will have your need met as determined by the school, but they could deny you admission based on whether they want to offer the aid they determine you need. Colgate’s % of need-based aid provided as reported in Princeton Review’s books, e.g. “212 best northeastern colleges”, shows it does impact their admission decisions. Colgate extends need-based aid to approx. 30% of sutdents when most similar schools are over 40%. Apply and see what happens. Colgate waives the application fee if you submit it online so you have nothing to lose but the time it takes to do the Colgate app supplement, for which one essay is the only real extra item. If you get in and get the aid you want then good for you. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.</p>
<p>But if aid is important, steer clear, very clear, of early decision (ED). dnwt8up is quite right that you’ll be locked in even if the aid is not enough from your point of view and some schools will go to great lengths to stop you from trying to get out of it. Sure, they let in a higher % of applicants through ED, but that’s at least in part due to them having you locked in–all schools are like that. No, I don’t have any hard evidence on that but it’s common sense. So, apply but don’t go ED, there are lots of really good schools that have great track records getting their grads into law school.</p>
<p>Common sense? How can a school force you to attend if you can’t afford it and they don’t give enough aid? They would just kick you out when you can’t pay. Billy is right that there is no evidence for his claims.</p>
<p>Instead, pay attention to the instructions in the Common App:
<p>But schools DO let other schools know and share lists of applicants who have backed out on ED offers. Other schools can very well deny admission to these kind of students who apply early but decline offer because the FA is too low. That’s why applying ED with FA need is a gamble.</p>
<p>OP, have a long discussion with your parents. Do calculate your EFC. Speak with the FA office to get some kind of picture with the basics of your parents’ assests and income. If you don’t like their estimates, then DO NOT apply ED. Apply RD and see what happens. If you can write a very good application (seems like you have a very strong passion for community service and hockey which will be pluses), you will be looked at carefully in RD.</p>
<p>And as for West Coast… I hope that you’re not from California… just because being Californian wouldn’t really add much to the diversity pool anyhow since so many Californians go to NE schools. It’s generally the largest representative group in the West.</p>
<p>“But schools DO let other schools know and share lists of applicants who have backed out on ED offers.”</p>
<p>Which schools do this? Is this yet another rumor?</p>
<p>One scenario that I’ve heard a few times (rumor? ) is that consortiums that unify their FA offers may exchange info. In such a case it wouldn’t matter to the student, since she can’t afford any of the schools in the consortium, because they all make the same FA offers.</p>
<p>I agree that if you don’t like a school’s estimate, then don’t apply ED there.</p>
<p>I doubt you would be forced to attend Colgate even if they didn’t meet your needs. However, I suspect you would have to prove to them that they actually didn’t if you want to break the commitment. In this case, Colgate might offer you a more generous financial aid package. If they don’t, tell them that your family cannot afford to pay for your education at the school and apply for other colleges.</p>
<p>Anyway, I remember Colgate meets 100% admitted students’ needs, so I believe the financial aid issue would not be a big deal.</p>
<p>And yes, such a consortium does exist. If you are admitted to a college in the consortium, the others to which you applied to will be notified. However, these schools generally do not have the same financial capabilities; that you have declined one financial aid package doesn’t mean you will the other, which could be more generous. </p>
<p>That said, one disadvantage of applying ED regarding financial matters is that you would not be offered an AMS scholarship or Benton scholarship, both of which are reserved for RD candidates only.</p>
<p>Forget this idea of forcing you; they don’t, because if they did, they would just kick you out when you can’t pay the bill. There is no way to prove to them that they didn’t meet your need; you already supplied the required financial info. But if it’s not enough, do contact the financial aid office to see if there is any other info you can supply. </p>
<p>Believe the common app instructions given in #8 above.</p>
<p>I completely disagree with dntw8up and BillyB1918. You don’t have to attend a community college or spend a gap year at all because your acceptance and financial aid decisions are out by December 15 and most RD applications are after or on Jan 1 (except for Yale: Dec 31) and you can just apply right on time. Also these college applications are not Rolling that seats would end up and you’ve to worry about them.</p>
<p>And guys, don’t worry about applying ED at all. If you don’t get enough aid, you can still bargain for an increase and if you still fail, the ED agreement can be broken anytime. Just chill.</p>
<p>Also you don’t even need to compare your aid package if you get a full ride. Colgate can be very generous in aid (I repeat what dunkswfur said). </p>
<p>It’s so stupid of you guys thinking of being forced to attend. It is clearly stated in the ED agreement that you can break your ED agreement if you’re a financial aid candidate.
BillyB1918 is wrong in his common sense; schools wouldn’t die to get you to their institution.</p>
<p>@ ticklemepink and HiLine: This is the first time I heard of such a consortium. How can Colgate know about the colleges I’m applying RD if I don’t tell them? And how can it affect RD decisions?</p>
<p>362 out of 650 ED applications were accepted. But all 362 didn’t enroll into Colgate. Only 354 enrolled. (This means that the 8 accepted candidates broke the ED agreement because of low fin. aid or didn’t want to attend college that year.)</p>
<p>If you’re fully committed to Colgate and its your prime choice, apply ED.</p>
<p>The school may meet 100% of demonstrated need, but that does not mean that the student and the school will agree on the amount of that need, and the difference in the perceived need can be thousands of dollars each year. Nobody will “force” a student admitted ED to attend, but because that student benefited from ED (if an applicant didn’t believe this s/he would apply RD) and his/her declining to attend has a negative effect on the school’s yield, the school will share the student’s information with other schools, and the student is likely to encounter difficulty gaining an admission spot elsewhere.</p>
<p>@ dntw8up: You also have repeated the same statement as ticklemepink and HiLine. But how is Colgate going to know whether I’m applying RD to other schools unless I tell them? And how will they know which colleges I will be applying to or will they send information to all the 3500 institutions? What type of information will they be sending? And I don’t understand why will they try to hurt me and how will it affect my RD application…I mean a person won’t die if s/he doesn’t attend a college for a year…and why will colleges waste so much of time and money just to hurt my chances in other RD colleges?</p>
<p>omega007: I believe the purpose of the consortium is for the member colleges to share their ED candidate lists to avoid double-ED (which does happen though rarely) and most importantly, to cross out a RD candidate should he have already been accepted ED. If you apply ED to Colgate and RD to school X and get accepted by Colgate, school X will be notified and might ask you if you would like to withdraw your application from them since you have been admitted somewhere. Of course, if you accept Colgate’s admission offer, it is your responsibility to withdraw your applications to other colleges but what if you forget? The consortium will save the colleges quite a little trouble.</p>
<p>Should you decide to decline Colgate’s admission offer though, you wouldn’t like to withdraw your application to school X and would just reply to them likewise. I don’t see how that should hurt your RD chance.</p>
<p>“his/her declining to attend has a negative effect on the school’s yield, the school will share the student’s information with other schools, and the student is likely to encounter difficulty gaining an admission spot elsewhere.”</p>
<p>Which schools do this? Where did you get this information? It would be helpful for others to know which schools are doing this. Thanks!</p>
<p>I have the same question as vossron. This is the first time in my entire college research where I’ve heard such a rumor. I definitely want to know which schools do this?</p>
<p>We seem to have hijacked the Colgate forum for a discussion generally applicable to many schools. </p>
<p>We have visited 10 schools, all small liberal arts schools in the northeast. I did not keep a tally but at several of the admission information sessions the speaker explicitly stated that if you applied ED, got in and tried to go somewhere else they would make a point of blackballing you at the other school, which other school they claimed would honor the ED rules and revoke your admission. Sure, they’d have to find out which school, but do you really want to take that chance? They take it very seriously because none of them want to find themselves in the same position where an applicant admitted ED backed out. Of course there can be extenuating circumstances to avoid that, but if you need fin aid then ED may not be the best option because the school could meet your “demonstrated need” yet leave you paying a much larger part of the bill than you believe is justified and then you’re stuck. As a practical matter, contact the fin aid office of the school you’re going to apply ED before you do to avoid the problem.</p>
<p>ED works great if you’re not going to be eligible for fin aid and you’d be a borderline applicant because the statistics show ED applicants admitted have on average lower numbers–again on average–or they are admitted at higher rates, or some times both.</p>
<p>However, and this was my point initially, if they meet your demonstrated need–as determined by the school itself–they expect you to attend. The schools can massage those numbers as they see fit, though don’t misunderstand me, I’m not suggesting it’s a big gotcha. If you’ve filled out any online estimators of fin aid you know that what they say you can afford and what you believe you can, can be very different numbers. Therefore, if you really need fin aid, ED may not be the best option because you won’t get a chance to shop around. Only one school (Williams) stated that if you could not work out fin aid they would release you from your ED commitment without consequences.</p>
<p>Vossron: To answer your question, we visited 10 northeastern, small, liberal arts schools and while I did not keep track many gave nearly identical versions of the same story: If you get in ED we expect you to attend because you signed an agreement saying you would if we meet your “demonstrated need”, which of course they do. However, if you’ve used any online fin aid estimator you know the number is not too close to what you believe your family can actually spend. Therefore you need schools to have some sense that they are competing for you to improve your package. If you go ED, you lose that leverage. No, they don’t force you but you signed the agreement and if your fin aid meets your “demonstrated need” then that school and any others expect you to attend. One school was honest enough to say that if they found out where you went they’d contact the other school to get you blackballed and stated they’d done it before as had other schools in reverse. What other way do they have to enforce the agreement if you back out? They’re not going to bother to sue so they try to get you another way.</p>
) is that consortiums that unify their FA offers may exchange info. In such a case it wouldn’t matter to the student, since she can’t afford any of the schools in the consortium, because they all make the same FA offers.</p>