Chances at top schools (emory, vandy, tulane) with a low GPA?

Chance Me / Match Me!
1

Seeing the seniors at my school go through the stress of college admissions season has made me more paranoid than ever about my chances at my dream schools. To offer a bit of context:

I have always been obsessed with succeeding in high school and attending a prestigious university. Despite being so highly motivated and driven to get good grades, I have always performed poorly in my high school courses. After hearing teachers complain about every aspect of my standing as a student, one statement remains consistent: “He is smart, but he doesn’t do his homework thoroughly or on time.” The resulting consequence of this issue is me being left with a low GPA. I am not here to make the common excuses about having poor grades (anxiety, undiagnosed ADD/ADHD, depression, etc.), I will accept full responsibility in the fact that I am a slacker who procrastinates on a daily basis and ends up drowning in work.

At this point, I need to consider my options for college, and which colleges I have even a remote chance at. There are a few things that give me a little bit of hope that I can offset my low GPA, test scores and extracurriculars.

Here are my current application details :

  • Indian male from an upper-income household
  • open member of the LGBTQ+ community
  • attend a top 20 private school
  • have taken a mix of regular, honors and AP courses including (honors algebra 2, honors bio, AP bio, AP chem, AP stats)
  • Senior year courseload (APES, AP AB calc, AP lit, AP comp sci A, AP Latin, AP micro, anatomy/physiology, biochem, and psychology.)

GPA by year:

9th: 2.84, 10th: 3.45, 11th: 3.43 (my downward trend is due to my commitment to extracurriculars)

3.21 W GPA overall

  • 36 ACT (12 essay score)
  • 1550 SAT
  • 4 on AP Chem
  • 5 on AP stats
  • 5 on AP bio
  • 800 SAT math 1
  • 800 SAT bio
  • 800 SAT chem

extracurriculars:

  • 3 years varsity tennis
  • participated in concert band (playing percussion and piano) in multiple schools theatre productions
  • 300+ hours volunteering at my local hospital (flower delivery, pet therapy, wheelchair assistance)
  • an active member of my school's student council and class board
  • 3 years of experience working at Kumon
  • 3 years of a paid internship at a medical school
  • 5 years+ of laboratory research at my local medical school (started out as a curious student, ended up conducting my own soon to be published project.)
  • organized outreach programs at my local Hindu temple, organizing youth awareness and culture programs
  • founder of STEM researcher club at my high school
  • founder and president of 501(c)3 non-profit that's mission is to foster scientific inquiry in the world youth
  • Latin club, 3 years
  • Latin team
  • Jazz band club

Awards/Honors:

  • winner of 2018 state google science fair
  • 1st place in biomedical health sciences at state science fair
  • best of fair winner of state science fair
  • 2019 & 2020 Intel ISEF finalist (2nd place award in category)
  • US airforce and US naval Research award
  • winner of state JSHS
  • JSHS national finalist
  • American Society for quality national award
  • American society for laboratory sciences award
  • giving a TEDx talk

*fingers crossed for winning 1st place at ISEF 2020 and becoming a Regeneron STS Scholar

In summary, I have very high test scores and I strongly demonstrate my interest in science and medicine through my many years of working on my research. BUT MY GRADES ARE AWFUL

What are my chances at top schools such as Vanderbilt, Emory, Tulane, U Chicago, USC, Dartmouth etc.)

Which colleges am I currently fit for?

I would greatly appreciate it if those who have gone through the admissions process could comment on my chances and/or how I can increase my chances at these schools. I realize that I could’ve prioritized my school work over my research, but it truly is my obsession and why I wake up every morning. I have found my passion, and for that, I feel that I am one of the luckiest people in the world. I am ready for a fresh start in college, and I am ready to give it my all and kill it.

Thank you.

2

Why not go to the UK? They care about test scores, not grades. You don’t have the stats for science at Oxbridge or Imperial, but you could have a decent shot at (say) Kings College London, and you would be doing all science all the time.

3

What is your unweighted GPA?

4

So it sounds like from what you said that you are very smart but maybe prioritize your activities over your classes. Is that correct? You said, “I will accept full responsibility in the fact that I am a slacker who procrastinates on a daily basis and ends up drowning in work.”

I think your challenge will be convincing colleges that it will be different if you attend their school. Your commitment and “obsession” with research is great, but schools don’t want to think you’ll flunk out either. And I have to warn you, college is hard and the schools you are targeting will be REALLY hard. MY D has been shocked at how hard her STEM classes have been at a T20 school. The class average on her last Physics midterm was about a 50%. Her CS major friends are seeing failing midterm grades. And these are really smart kids, most of whom are really trying hard.

And in addition, how DO you think things will be different in college? Just saying “things will be different in college” doesn’t seem like enough. I suspect you say that every summer heading into a new school year. And in college you have even more distractions to deal with. You mentioned that you won’t blame your issues on ADHD, anxiety, depression etc. Do you think any of those things might be an issue for you? If so, I’d highly recommend getting some help asap.

I encourage you to think long and hard about why you want to go to a “prestigious” college? Do you think you’ll be happy in an academically intense environment? Honestly, it seems like you would flourish in a school where you didn’t have to spend many hours a day in the library, but instead could have more time for the things that you are passionate about. Your college experience is about much more than being able to wear a shirt with a prestigious name on it!

5

IMO pick one or two reach schools and then focus the rest of your time on schools that match your stats and safeties. (Which should be what everyone does).

Look at schools where the weakest part of your application, your GPA, will be the norm. There is a thread for B students in the parent forum.

The schools you listed are not going to overlook your gpa.

6

In addition to your GPA, you are unlikely to get glowing recommendation letters. At the level of school that you have listed they are necessary.

7

Yeah, they won’t overlook your GPA.

8

However… your ECs are great. Is there a reason why you didn’t want to complete your schoolwork but had such great ECs and seemed committed to them more?

9

Most college admissions officers I’ve heard speak say that the first and most important piece fo information that they look at is the transcript (including GPA and course rigor). Admissions officers want to accept students that they feel confident will succeed in the school’s academic environment. It is unlikely that a super-competitive school will ignore an applicant’s GPA.

It is certainly fine to put in a few reach applications and see what happens. But you should work hard to create an application list that also includes match and safety schools (based on your GPA) that appear affordable (run net price calculators) and that you would be excited to attend. There are tons of great schools out there.

10

With 3.21 WGPA and no hook, you have zero chance of getting into Vandy, Chicago, or Dartmouth. Your chances for USC and Emory are also very remote. Even Tulane is a long shot, especially if you don’t apply ED. At this level, high test scores don’t make up for low grades - in fact, schools see it as a red flag.

11

Congratulations on your achievements. For anyone who doesn’t know…Intel ISEF is the International Science Fair. Your achievements are fantastic, but your classwork, as mentioned, is going to be an issue for many schools. However, there are plenty of schools that would be excited to have you. Don’t get discouraged in your college search. The school that is best for you is going to be different than the type that is frequently discussed on these boards. Best of luck.

12

What are my chances at schools like Case Western, SMU, Baylor, Brandies?

13

@physman Without having a clue as to what your unweighted GPA is, no one can really hasten a guess at any potential U.S. schools. Another question that will be relevant; are you a U.S. Citizen living in the States?

I can tell you that Case Western, SMU and Baylor are definitely going to care about your GPA. Someone else will have to comment on Brandeis, but given what can be extrapolated from the common dataset, Brandeis will too: The average unweighted GPA of incoming Freshman is 3.83, only 3% have unweighted GPAs below a 3.0, 99% of admits are in the top 50% of their class with 91% in the top quarter.

Honestly, I’d take the advice that you’ve already gotten, remove “name brand” from focus, and look at schools that align with your style of learning, has research opportunities for undergrads, is in range academically, and will leave you with a lot of time for extracurriculars.

Some thoughts for undergrad-- It strikes me that you’ll perform better where you have a cohort that will keep you accountable. You might enjoy a one class at a time, collaborative environments, or schools that are more focused on learning-by-doing, with intimate, interactive groups.

The University of Denver comes to mind. They’re on the quarter system & approach classroom learning with small interactive groups, they offer and strongly encourage undergrad research (lots of opportunities and money earmarked for it), and if you need something that will register on the ‘Prestige Meter’, it’s a top 100 university. It would still be a reach, but perhaps a low reach, given that they’d be (very) impressed with your ECs and research skills, which are highly valued. They’re more likely to recognize a kindred spirit who’s been needing the type of learning environment that they foster to perform well in the classroom.

14

“9th: 2.84, 10th: 3.45, 11th: 3.43 (my downward trend is due to my commitment to extracurriculars)”

You actually have an upward trend, which you should emphasize. The 2.84 is going to need explaining, taking full responsibility is good, but you’ll have to give some good reasons, maybe freshman year was not an easy transition. Many colleges do look primarily at sophomore and junior years and having a good first semester senior year will help. And there are going to be a lot of kids that also committed to their ECs while maintaining a good GPA. These colleges want students that can do both.

Also, you’ll need to take the math 2 subject test for the colleges you’re considering.

15

It’s obvious that you have plenty of potential that will help you if you get your organizational skills and priorities straight. Look at the long haul. If you love science, you will need to go to graduate school to pursue it, and it’s the graduate school you attend that matters in your career. Students with excellent college GPAs and recommendations get into top graduate programs from a diverse array of good colleges, many of them not elite.

Most colleges and universities these days have professors with outstanding credentials (it’s very competitive getting a tenured position anywhere in academia). In a slightly less-prestigious school, with hard work and better time-management skills, you can become the shining star student to be mentored and nurtured for your dream program in graduate school. On the other hand, if you do get into a reach undergraduate school that you’re not quite ready for (in terms of getting your procrastination under control) you might get lost in the competitive shuffle unnoticed before you manage to improve your study skills, and never make it to your dream graduate school later. So try to keep your ego out of it (hard, I know) and keep your eye on your eventual goal. I think you can make it if you want this badly enough.

16

Have you talked to anyone about all your issues (what you called excuses)? I can tell you my kid really struggled with procrastination and is textbook ADD. His accessing support has really really made a difference for him.

If you are battling these things now, I honestly don’t see college making them magically better.

17

I’m very confused. Are you a current junior, or senior? If you are a senior, there is little you can do to improve anything. Decisions are coming out now.

If you are a junior, then there is still time. Unfortunately being ORM makes things a bit more difficult. Most of the top colleges won’t overlook your poor GPA. Sometimes they will if there are extenuating circumstances (death of parent, medical illness, etc). But the reasons you provide above won’t be convincing IMHO.

Have you considered getting a neuropsych evaluation? These are expensive, but can help pinpoint your problem areas and devise behavioral interventions to help improve. This might be the best strategy for the long-term. As others point out, going to a top college with the same study habits might spell doom for you.

The second option is to go to a lower ranked college (or even 2 year community college) with the intention of transferring. After 1-2 years of solid grades, you would make for a compelling transfer case. There are some top colleges that accept lots transfer students (USC, Cornell, Vandy to name a few).