Chance for a lower GPA?

Chance Me / Match Me!
1

<p>Hey guys,</p>

<p>So I've struggled to stay motivated about school for my first two years of high school (now a rising senior) and I realize I probably screwed myself in regards to getting into any top school. I'm reasonably intelligent (or so I'd like to think), but never really bothered to try to keep my gpa up. I was wondering what chances I'd have at these schools.</p>

<p>Male, Asian
MA</p>

<p>SATs: 2340
750 Critical Reading
790 Math
800 Writing</p>

<p>Sat Subject Tests:
770 Chemistry
760 World History
750 Biology
800 Math 2</p>

<p>Unweighted GPA: 3.4
Weighted GPA: 3.9
Class rank: School doesn't rank</p>

<p>AP Classes Taken:</p>

<p>World History
US History
Chemistry
Biology
My school doesn't offer AP math until senior year, or AP english at all</p>

<p>Senior year AP Classes:</p>

<p>AP Econ
AP C Physics
AP BC Calculus</p>

<p>EC:</p>

<p>4 years of baseball (varsity letter)
AAU/legion baseball during summers
4 years of indoor track (varsity letter)
Volunteer T.A at my local chinese school (about 200 hours)
Summer research at Harvard Med Lab
Helping my dad run his online restaurant ordering business (I help him run the site, design restaurant pages, make sales calls etc.) <- Not sure if this counts?</p>

<p>But yeah, my ECs are pretty limited, so I'm currently pouring my heart and soul into my essay.</p>

<p>Don't know if this matters but I go to a public school that is pretty well represented among top schools. Usually around the top 10% (out of a graduating class of 500) end up going to an Ivy or equivalent. Unfortunately I'm not one of them so this doesn't apply to me but I just thought I'd throw it out there.</p>

<p>(Repost from a few months ago but my list has changed)</p>

<p>Schools I'm considering:
WashU <-likely ED
Carnegie Mellon
Vanderbilt
Emory
Tufts
Bowdoin
Colby
NYU
BC
College of William & Mary</p>

<p>(note that this is just the reach list, looking to cut it down to 4-5)</p>

<p>Thanks if you made it this far</p>

2

<p>Could you help us understand how you chose those reach schools? I see big/small, urban/small town/rural, LAC/research university, north/south/midwest. sports-intense/sports-incidental. If we know more about your criteria, we may be able to make more intelligent suggestions.</p>

<p>One of the reasons for standardized tests is to measure your skills and knowledge in comparison to other applicants from all kinds of backgrounds. You have consistent, very high scores. That suggests that you’ve learned a lot and can handle college work.</p>

3

<p>I’d prefer to stay on the east coast, but I’ll make an exception for WashU (St. Louis is lovely). As a premed, it’s probably better that the school has a smaller undergrad population so I can get more individualized advising so NYU is out. Other than that I feel like I can fit in to really any of the other colleges. Only 3% of students at emory have below 3.5 gpa, so I’ll take that out and I’m just not feeling BC, so that’s out. The remaining colleges are
WashU
Carnegie Mellon
Vanderbilt
Tufts
Bowdoin
Colby
What are my chances at these schools?</p>

4

<p>GPA seems low. Which courses did you take in junior year and what were your grades?</p>

5

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<p>I am just a parent, not an expert. However, it seems to me, some schools are more conservative in grading than others. I have a feeling adcoms know about them. Yours could be one of them, seeing that so many students go to top schools from it (and your standardized test scores are pretty good). My son’s school is the same way. The top weighted GPA of vals and sals is below 4.8. A GPA of 4.4 is top 10%. Also, I think, a lot depends on rigor and gpa in junior year. This is why I asked you about your junior year performance.</p>

6

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<p>Can you tell us what percentage of kids in your class make NMSF, were you one? Also, does your school designate students as Suma Cum Laude, Magna Cum Laude and Cum Laude etc? Do you know the cut offs for those designations? Thanks.</p>

7

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<p>So, what are you taking in senior year? Finally, which courses do you need to graduate high school on their most rigorous program? With answers to these questions, I think we will all be in a better position to give you advice/ chances.</p>

8

<p>I asked, “Can you tell us what percentage of kids in your class make NMSF, were you one?”</p>

<p>I meant to ask how many kids usually make NMSF at your school annually? Also, will you be most likely one of them this year?</p>

9

<p>Hey, thanks for responding. To answer your questions,
-I took AP Chem, APUSH, Honors Precalc, standard english and standard spanish as a junior and had a 3.6 gpa for the year
-This year I’ll be taking AP Economics, AP C Physics, AP BC Calculus, standard english and standard spanish
-My school doesn’t give out any latin designations, just “honor roll” for keeping your grades in all classes above b-
-Last year, 20 students made NMSF. Unfortunately, I didn’t take the PSAT seriously and bombed it so I won’t be one this year</p>

10

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<p>It’s fine to try and spin your academic situation but I think it’s important to be realistic as well. By your own admission you are an under-achiever. You finally decided to take school seriously and posted a 3.6 which given your overall 3.4 implies that you had been pulling 3.3s. I don’t know if that sort of jump is going to impress admissions committees at the schools on your list.</p>

<p>IMO, Wash U (even ED), Vanderbilt, Tufts & Bowdoin are highly unlikely and Carnegie-Mellon and Colby are only slightly more probable. I’d work on lowering my sights and compiling a fuller set of match and safety schools. If you choose to apply to these schools recognize that they are some of the most competitive admits around. Your challenge is going to be to convince an admissions committee that they should take a chance on your new found motivation instead of admitting someone who’s been going all out since day one of high school.</p>

<p>Your past can’t be undone but it’s important to keep the motivation going forward. Sorry if that’s harsh but it’s best to recognize when you’re in a hole and adjust your strategy accordingly.</p>

11

<p>Thanks for being honest in your evaluation. I’ll gladly admit that I’m an extreme underachiever, I still underachieved in junior year. However, I was just hoping that these schools would be willing to take a chance on potential. Keep in mind that this is a reach list, I’ve got a whole other list of safeties and matches that I’m applying to. </p>

<p>It is interesting that you say Wash U, Vanderbilt, Carnegie Mellon and Colby are highly unlikely though. I understand Bowdoin and Tufts, as they clearly favor a high GPA. According to my schools Naviance data, about half the students in my GPA and SAT range (I think its .1 for GPA, 100 points for SAT) that apply get into Vandy and CMU, about 40% for WashU and 100% for Colby. I hoped the ED would offset the lower percentage for Wash U but I guess not?</p>

12

<p>That number of NMSFs suggests it is a pretty competitve school, similar to the one my son attends. How many students in the class? </p>

<p>At my son’s school a 3.6 would put you into the top 5%. A 3.4 would be top 10%. So the GPAs are fine. However, I am a little confused about your course load though, do you just take 5 courses a semester? Also don’t you have to take any electives, such as Physical Education, Govt & Politics etc or did you already take them? The only weakness I see, is a possible lack of rigor in your junior year course selection. It may have been better if you had also taken AP Lang and AP Spanish, since there could be kids who did that with similar stats. Beyond that I think those reaches are appropriate for you as long as AP Chemistry was an A and AP test score was a 5 (which I have a feeling it was).</p>

13

<p>Have never seen another Asian who has the same GPA (3.4) as me, haha. Glad to know there are others :stuck_out_tongue: I think you have a good chance at NYU, W&M, BC, and possibly Emory, but I’m not sure about the others. You should look into some safety schools, though.</p>

14

<p>I can’t speak to the individual reputation of your school or any connection/relationship they may have with the individual colleges that you listed. Naviance, while a good guideline doesn’t help much when considering individual cases. On average you can make guesses but the results to you personally are binary - i.e., yes/no, admit/reject. Then there is the issue of perspective…</p>

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<p>Another person might look at those statistics and see that half of the people with your stats get rejected at Vandy and CMU and 60% get rejected by Wash U. I’m not trying to depress you; I’m trying to get you to understand your risks. Regardless of the averages you are the one who suffers if you fall into the reject part of the Naviance pool.</p>

15

<p>I think you should narrow this list down to no more then three colleges if this is a reach list. Also even though they are reaches I would look for schools where you are a little bit closer to there averages (let’s face it the top schools in the country tend to not admit people with a 3.5 uw).</p>

16

<p>^How can you say that when according to Naviance, 40 percent of the kids with a GPA of 3.3 from his school and 100 point lower SAT score are getting into schools such as CMU and 100% into Colby?</p>

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<p>You are exactly right, each individual case is binary. But then, I must ask, how can I judge my own individual case? I would think that the cases of previous students with similar stats that came from my school would be some of the better resources I could use.</p>

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<p>Yes, but even from that perspective, wouldn’t these be numbers that you would want to see on a reach list? I mean how many students would kill to see numbers like this for HYPSM? I was under the impression that a reach list (and especially ED) would be a chance to take risks on colleges that are above your standards, but still within reach, and in my perspective, a 40%/50% acceptance rate (again, I know each case is individual, but I’ll use the data just as a reference) looks to be in reach.</p>

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<p>Which schools would you suggest? Going off conversations with my guidance counselor, schools that are a notch below these in selectivity seem to be my matches (E.g. Brandeis, Rochester, GTech). Maybe UMich/Lehigh/BC/NYU?</p>

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<p>Wow, your son has it tough, the grade deflation here isn’t that bad lol (top 25%, according to guidance counselor). And yes, I do take other electives and phys ed, but those grades aren’t factored into our gpa.</p>

<p>Just read over my post, and WOW, I’m sorry for coming off so defensively. I’m just trying to come up with the best list of reach schools to apply to, so forgive me if I push and defend, I just want to really make sure I’m making the right decision before I adjust my list. I really do appreciate all the feedback, criticism and encouragement, and I’ll be sure to return the favor as I become more educated about this process.</p>

18

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<p>Speaking of class rank, this is not our school, but my son attends one like it:</p>

<p><a href=“http://kisdwebs.katyisd.org/campuses/CRHS/Counselors/Documents/007%20CRHS%20SCHOOL%20PROFILE%2011-12_spot.pdf[/url]”>http://kisdwebs.katyisd.org/campuses/CRHS/Counselors/Documents/007%20CRHS%20SCHOOL%20PROFILE%2011-12_spot.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>The top 25 percentile cut is at 3.97 (weighted). So, straight Bs (3.0 unweighted) in all honors classes keeps one in the top 25%.</p>

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<p>I have no issue with having a few reach schools. The problem I’m having is that you seem to be basing your chances on a Naviance set of data with little or no regard to the overall profiles of your reach list. To be blunt, a 3.4/2350 is an odd profile. How many 3.4/2350 students from your school have applied to Wash U/Vandy/CMU etc in the last three years? If there are 50 with that profile I’d be stunned, if they all applied to Wash U I’d call you a ■■■■■. The point being is that a handful of data points is a small counter-weight to the overall stats of these reach schools.</p>

<p>As far as reach schools, I’m all in favor of dreaming and reaching big but I have one question for you: What’s the goal? If you want to take a flyer long shot then go for Wash U - ED. If you want to get into a school a bit beyond your stats then you might want to lower the reach target. </p>

<p>Admissions are competitive. Your’re a ballplayer, who would you call up? A ballplayer in in a good league who’s hit .260 for two seasons then bumped it to .280 for a year or a player from a slightly lower league who’s been hitting .330 for three years?</p>

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<p>I am not suggesting that the OP belongs in this class, but please take a moment and look at the profile of the competitve suburban high school in Texas as an example, in post 18. Theoretically, it is possible to graduate with above a 4.9 (straight As) with a minimum number of required non honor electives. However, if you look at the scale for the top 25 percentile, the GPAs are between 4.75 to 3.97. So, not even the valedictorian is above a 4.75 and has a substantial number of Bs or diluted rigor at this school.</p>