Seems like Brown’s open curriculum is ideal for a pre-med, since there are no general education requirements in categories that may force the pre-med to take a course that is a GPA risk.
@mom2collegekids ah, glad to clear up the misconception. thank you yet again. I will seriously consider UA for their scholarships, and will try my best. Affordability is a key factor for me.
@ucbalumnus seems logical. do you think I have any sort of hook for brown? or should I not bother applying there?
Brown expects an interest in a diversity of courses (and that that shows in the hs record and ECs.) And there are course expectations per your major. Med school has certain course expectations. That cycles you right back to the getting top grades issue. If you can’t do orgo, you can’t do orgo.
OP, did you run the net price calculators/NPC for each college? If your parents are together and not self employed.
Also, there’s not only a lot of competition for these top colleges, but also from NJ. Plus that you’re international. Some colleges will not be need blind for internationals. Choose your targets wisely. Every additional app means the corresponding supplements, too.
@lookingforward i have talked with my counselor and decided to apply to Brown. I did not know about the diversity of the courses but that is something that interests me. Also, I know that NJ is a very competitive state when it comes to stats, but I am hoping I can qualify, so I am setting for backups at Buffalo and the automatic tuition scholarship at Temple University.
Much of the premed to med school process is counter-intuitive. Too many think that going to a “top undergrad” is the golden ticket to med school, when in fact, it’s often the biggest misstep a premed can do.
As mentioned, half of Princeton’s premeds are weeded out and never ended up applying to med school. Think abou that for a minute. These students are the cream of the crop. They’d
I’m currently working with 2 med school applicants who went to tippy-top undergrads and their GPA’s suffered. BTW…both of these students had MULTIPLE acceptances to tippy top schools as high school seniors. One had acceptances to Harvard, Princeton, Duke, Vandy, and UChicago. The other had acceptances to WashU, Columbia, Cornell, JHU, Rice, and Northwestern.
Neither they nor their parents had any suspicion that either student would struggle for grades those first 1-2 years. These are students who had never seen a B EVER, much less a C.
Both had very high GPAs and perfect ACT/SAT scores in high school…yet when they were in a class full of similar students they did not end up with the As a few times. Both have college cum/science GPAs that are hovering around 3.3 and 3.4. …and that’s with upward trends. Both had B’s & C’s in some sciences frosh and/or soph years. Both had to wait until after senior year to apply to allow senior grades to boost GPAs, particularly BCPM GPAs
I suspect that one of these applicants may get into an instate public med because that student lives in a state with more than 1 public meds AND they heavily favor residents AND the student’s MCAT is a 518, which may help her overcome the 3.4 GPA. The applicant’s public meds may want that 518 to help compensate for any lower MCAT applicants that they may accept. It’s not unusual for a public med to have an average MCAT of around 508-511, so a 518 would be very desirable. This student has interviewed at 2 instate publics.
However, I don’t have a lot of confidence for the other applicant, even though that applicant’s state also has more than 1 public med. That applicant’s MCAT is just ok (509), so likely not be high enough to compensate for the 3.3 science and cum GPA. The applicant’s school believes that their students get a boost, but the devil is in the details. Anyway, it’s well past Thanksgiving and no interviews. The rule of thumb is that if an applicant has NO interview invites by Thanksgiving, then very likely a failed cycle. It’s already a couple weeks past Tgiving and no interview invites. 
Yes, the student and parents are certain that if the student had gone to their very good flagship or some other good school, the GPAs would probably be at least a 3.6 or higher.
Anyway, what a lot of people don’t realize is how hard it is to adequately improve a GPA once a student has 2-3 science courses with C’s, since those classes typically are 4 or 5 credits. Add in a B or two, and the struggle is real.
@mom2collegekids Thank you, this was very good advice that I will definitely take under consideration. As to respond to this issue, I have backups that I am very comfortable with going to (particularly SUNY Buffalo’s Early Med School Assurance Program in their sophomore year). I would very much prefer going to an Ivy if I am accepted however, due to the opportunities that would be given to me. However, this does raise a few concerns for me. Once again, thank you for all the time you have taken out to help me, and I am close to being finished with those UA applications!
Don’t know why one of my sentences in post #45 got cut off…
Should say: As mentioned, half of Princeton’s premeds are weeded out and never ended up applying to med school. Think abou that for a minute. These students are the cream of the crop. They’d probably all or nearly all do very well at lesser-competitive schools.
that makes sense. At this point its either Princeton or considering any full ride I can get to pre-med, so it goes right back to the original question: what chances do I have of making it to this elite Ivy?
Your stats are competitive for any school. However, Ivy acceptance rates are very low for everyone.
Your stats and accomplishments are in range for any school.
I do want to note that no matter what school you go to, opportunities will not be given to you, you will have to find and/or earn them. The more selective the school, the more competitive things generally are when seeking said opportunities.
Good luck.
Getting into a tippy top undergrad is more than stats. If you end up needing to apply RD, spend some time getting to know what the targets are each about and what they look for. I totally agree that med school is about how you do in college (not what you personally feel about the experience) and med school test scores. Don’t underestimate the weeding.
It’s hard to learn the real med school admissions numbers versus how many freshmen started with med school as a goal. One very old study estimates JHU (with a high acceptance rate to MS) weeded out 80%. Only those the UG school feels are best of best get to the supported application stage. So do your research and make your own best decision.
@Mwfan1921 I completely understand. Thank you!
@lookingforward if admitted, the first step that I would make on campus would be towards a great med school application, with the help of the HPAA and the contacts offered with other med school graduates. It just always has been a dream for me to go to Princeton, and I’m prepared to work hard to get to a stage of my application being supported. I have some backups too with fine pre-meds, so I’m not at a total loss. Thank you so much!
I don’t really see where you have checked the NPCs for any of your schools.
If you are an “international” and need funding to attend, how will you pay?
There is not as much funding, nor scholarships, as you have led yourself to believe.
What good does it do you to be admitted, without the means to go to the school?
For med school, you will be focused on loans, loans, loans. That’s IF you get in, as an international, and IF your family has that kind of cash saved. No lender is going to loan out that kind of cash without an American co-signer.
@“aunt bea” I have scholarships from backups such as Temple, SUNY Buffalo, and have applied for the automatic full tuition scholarship at UAlabama, all with good pre-med. I have plenty of backups but at this point I am laser focused on trying to see my best shots at one of the Ivies (Harvard, Columbia, Princeton, Brown, specifically Princeton as I live in NJ) which will cover my full tuition if I am accepted regardless of citizenship. I want to know my chances of being admitted there.
Your chances, I think, would be based on what the school needs. If they need an artist, tuba player, crew, then that is what they are going to look for: someone who stands out with a different twist.
It’s not about just about making “a great med school app” if they’re purposely weeding and you can’t get A grades. Nor contacts with med school graduates.
@“aunt bea” thank you for the advice
@lookingforward is it more worth it then, to go to a smaller, more local pre-med