<p>I'm a black history major at Yale currently with a 3.57 GPA and a 159 LSAT. I'm taking the LSAT again in October, but any idea of how likely it would be for me to get into places like Columbia, Harvard, UPenn, etc? Also, does anyone know what the average LSAT scores for black T14 applicants are?</p>
<p>The Average GPA for Harvard Law School was a 3.8 and the LSAT score was 170-172. That is similar for all of them.
Being Black most likely isn't going to help with those scores.
If you could get a 3.7 or so and a 170+ on your LAST, you might be accepted.</p>
<p>I recommend UChicago,Georgetown or maybe NYU if you can raise that LSAT to say 170 or so.</p>
<p>I dont think being a URM helps you as much as it does with being an undergrad.</p>
<p>The assumption (and the majority of the time:true) is that many underpriviledged children don't do well on the SAT or in school because of societal and familial influences.</p>
<p>Once you are going for a professional degree, a bad score and mediocre LSAT score is more of a result of lacking the intelligence to go to a top school and/or not wanting to give the effort to match your hard working counterparts. But you are going to Yale, I'm sure you can get at least a 165 on the LSAT, upwards to a perfect score. Just keep working on it and dont take the LSATs until you are scoring well on the practice exams.</p>
<p>"But you are going to Yale, I'm sure you can get at least a 165 on the LSAT, upwards to a perfect score."</p>
<p>Well, that's a false assumption if I ever saw one.</p>
<p>I did respond to the other (identical) post by the OP. I generally agree that the score will have to be pushed much higher for a shot at the T14, though I think he probably doesn't need a 170 for a school like Georgetown. A 167+ will probably get him somewhere.</p>
<p>The Yale pre-law adviser has grids. They are even posted on-line. If you go in to see the pre-law adviser, (s)he probably can give you an idea of where other URM candidates from Yale with comparable stats were accepted.</p>
<p>Okay, I think I get you guys. But check out these sites:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.ceousa.org/index.phpoption=com_docman&task=doc_download&gid=234%5B/url%5D">www.ceousa.org/index.phpoption=com_docman&task=doc_download&gid=234</a>
<a href="http://www.*********.com/thread.php?thread_id=340470&mc=73&forum_id=2%5B/url%5D">http://www.*********.com/thread.php?thread_id=340470&mc=73&forum_id=2</a></p>
<p>Obviously the UMichigan thing is probably more credible than Auto Admit, but wouldn't this indicate that the scores tend to be relatively lower?</p>
<p>Several years ago, there was a Supreme Court case (Grutter v. Bollinger) about affirmative action at Michigan's law school. A lot of information about that school's admissions policies came to light. For example: all African American applicants with LSATs of 159 or 160 and GPAs above 3.0 got in; 1/54 Asian and 4/190 white applicants with the same stats got in. </p>
<p>Michigan and California have since passed amendments mandating race-neutral admission, so they can't ask you about your race (but I can't see how they could stop you from mentioning it in your personal statement). I assume that other T14 schools still consider race and that while median GPAs and LSATs have increased a lot since Grutter (the case was decided in 2003 but the admissions figures are from well before that), there is still is a significant plus factor to being African-American, especially if you're also male.</p>
<p>However, even if you could get admitted to a T14, you may want to consider the fact that you'd be graded on a curve against students who had better LSATs and GPAs than you, and your class rank could suffer from that. Here's an article with a lot of links on the topic: Law</a> Blog - WSJ.com : Is Affirmative Action at Law School Actually Hurting Minorities?</p>
<p>Neither of your links work.</p>
<p>And no, it doesn't matter if you're black, white, asian, hispanic, or eskimo, you're not getting into a T14 with a 159. Your GPA is strong though, and will get a bit of an extra boost because it's from Yale. Work on getting that LSAT into the mid-160s and you'll be a strong candidate at the lower T14 schools. Check out lawschoolnumbers.com and search some similar profiles to yours...I did a quick check on UPenn because it's the lowest-ranked of the schools you mentioned, and a 162/3.5 got accepted, and about 8 160-162/3.50-3.65s were rejected. I'd say if you can get a 164+ you'll get into at least a couple of the lower T14s.</p>
<p>Regarding the comment about UMichigan admissions, I looked up the court cases and, while UMichigan's undergrad system was revised by the Supreme Court, I believe that their law school practice was affirmed. That said, I'm sure that schools are trying to tighten up their processes, but I'm sure it's not entirely equal either. In addition, isn't it true that most of the people on LSN are higher-scoring, non-URMs? How accurate are those stats then?</p>
<p>Look, instead of speculating--and refusing to listen to anyone who tells you that being black is not going to get you into a T14 law school with a 159 LSAT and a 3.5--go see the Yale law adviser in the fall and ask. You'll get much more accurate info. </p>
<p>Be aware though that when you do look at stats for "black" applicants at a particular law school, the results may be skewed based on SES (socioeconomic status). People who have really overcome economic hardship, are the first in their families to attend college, who may have gone to college by attending part-time and working to supoort themselves, etc., are getting a boost for these factors, as well as race. </p>
<p>Others will get a boost due to community service. I think Barack Obama would have gotten into Harvard anyway, but the fact that he had spent several years working as a community organizer on the South Side of Chicago would have also been a plus for him. My kid had an African-American classmate who had worked for about 10 years as a union organizer. </p>
<p>If you are from a middle class family, went to Yale UG, and are applying directly from college, you're not going to be cut the same sort of slack. That's why I think you'd be better off talking to the pre-law adviser at Yale if you want an accurate assessment of your chances.</p>
<p>Yes, Michigan Law School's race-conscious admissions practice was affirmed in 2003 by Grutter. But in the fall of 2006, the state passed a constitutional amendment (Proposition 2) that banned consideration of race in admissions decisions. See Michigan</a> Civil Rights Initiative - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia</p>
<p>Frankly, the only way you'll know if you'll get into a T14 school is by applying. The odds are against it. But at many of those schools, the odds are against ALL applicants. You'll probably get at least a few fee waivers, so it hardly hurts to apply. Just make sure you have some less-selective schools on your list (or an alternate plan for after graduation, if you're one of the folks who will only attend a T14 law school).</p>