Chances for Ivy Leagues a junior with perfect SAT and ACT?

Chance Me / Match Me!
1

I’m looking to know my potential chances for Ivy League schools, particularly HYP, University of Pennsylvania and Columbia, in addition to Stanford, MIT, the University of Chicago, Northwestern, Georgetown, Carnegie Mellon, and Cambridge/Oxford in England if anyone has experience with them. Also safe schools like the UCs. I’m currently a junior and have very strong academics and essay-writing skills; however my extracurriculars and volunteering are not anything stellar. I still have this summer and senior year to tighten it up, though, so I want to see how much it will affect me.

No hooks except possibly that my parents are from ex-Yugoslavia and migrated during the war.
My income bracket also ensures that I will never receive any kind of financial aid, unfortunately.
Probably will receive very good recs.

Here we go:

Prospective Major: Business/International Business
Ethnicity: Caucasian
Gender: Female
ACT: 36
SAT: 2400
PSAT: 228 (bad sleep night before- insomnia)
Cumulative GPA (weighted): 4.5761
Cumulative GPA (unweighted): 4.0000
SAT II Literature: 760
SAT II Math II: 780
(again bad sleep night before my SAT IIs, may retake; planning to take 4+ more SAT IIs)

APs:
Taken:
AP European History (5)
AP Human Geography (5)

Currently Taking:
AP United States History
AP Spanish Language and Culture
AP English Language and Composition
AP Biology
AP World History
AP Calculus AB
AP Art History (Florida Virtual Schools)

Will Take Next Year:
AP Physics II
AP English Literature
AP Latin
AP Computer Science
AP Statistics
AP Comparative Government
AP American Government
AP Macroeconomics
(almost all the APs my school offers)

Clubs and Organizations:
30 and Above Club 9, 10, 11 [club for people with 30+ on ACT; we tutors others to improve their ACT score]
Honors Academy 9, 10, 11
Key Club 9, 10, 11
Beta Club 10, 11
National Honors Society 11
National Spanish Honors Society 10, 11
Rho Khappa 11
DECA 10, 11
Latin Honors Society 11
International Club 9, 10, 11
National Junior Classical League 9, 10, 11
Battle of the Brains 10

Leaderships:
Key Club Vice President 11
National Spanish Honors Society President 11
maybe DECA officer next year

Awards and Honors:
Festivus First Place in Test 9 [Latin competition]
WordSmith Third Place 9 [a writing competition]
WordSmith Second Place 10
WordSmith Third Place 11
Latin Optimus Discipulus (Best Student) 9, 10
National Spanish Exam Gold Medal and Third Place in State 9
National Spanish Exam Gold Medal and Seventh Place in State 10
National Latin Exam Gold medal and summa cumme laude 9
National Latin Exam Gold medal and perfect score 10
Science Fair Second Place 10
DECA Regionals First Place 11
DECA State Second Place 11
[going to compete in ICDC this April]

Community Service:
Tutor, 30 and Above Club 9, 10, 11
Tutor, National Spanish Honors Society 11
Tutor, AP English essays 11
Volunteer at a local theater 9, 10, 11
International Extravaganza 10, 11
Key Club Service, 40 annual hours 9, 10, 11
Honors Academy Service, 12 annual hours 9, 10, 11
Beta Club Service, 6 annual hours 11
[other minor things that I need to go back and find]

Summer Programs:
Studied Spanish for a month with Clic in Spain
[this summer] potentially Governor’s School- I am on a wait list
[this summer] will be going to a semi-poor country to work with an anti-trafficking organization

Interests:
-Foreign Countries/Travel/International Politics
-Languages (I am trilingual, probably could pick up other languages pretty easily)
-Business
-Cooking (okay, irrelevant, but this is my major hobby- I am really good though)
-Art

Sorry for the length. I would appreciate any estimates. Thank you.

2

Oxford & Cambridge love standardized testing, which you seem to be very strong in, but neither of them offer business at the undergraduate level.

Quick facts:

=you can only apply to either Oxford OR Cambridge;
=you apply to study a specific subject (usually one, but occasionally a joint honors, ie, History or History + Modern Languages);
=for many courses you have to submit graded school work and/or sit a specific aptitude test (before interview for Oxford, at interview for Cambridge);
=the application deadline for both is 15 October; registration deadline for Oxford aptitude tests is the same day and the tests are on 4 November this year.
=your application essay (Personal Statement) demonstrates your interest in, and aptitude for, the subject you are applying to study, including how that interest has been expressed outside the classroom
=the numbers, recs, PS, written work & any aptitude tests are used to make the shortlist for interviews.
=the interviews are not get-to-know-you, American-style, but more like a cross between an oral exam and a lesson, designed for the tutors to see how you think, how you process new information, how you handle the tutorial format, etc.
=Oxford interviews in person or by Skype; Cambridge only in person

3

Hey - I got into Cambridge this year, and come from the UK in a school that gears people up for admissions.
Cambridge and Oxford are soo different in terms of courses. You said you’re interested in business - the closest Cam has to this is Economic or Land Economy tbh. They have a Part II course called ‘Management Studies’ BUT you can’t apply to this for undergrad!!! You can only skip half way through your degree on to this. I’m not as familiar with Ox courses but I think Economics & Management is the closest you’ll get to business.
It’s useful to note Cambridge doesn’t do joints, but Oxford does.
If you applied to Cambridge you WOULD get an interview tbh. They interview something like 90% of apps, and given your stats are solid (which is generally how they filter out the first round of people), you should be good to go. Plus, it’s likely you would have to fly to Oxford and get interviewed in person there too - most Americans I’ve seen have to, and my friends met a lot of Americans at interview.
Oxbridge will ONLY care about your academic and interests in your subject. You literally could be a Michelin star chef and they probably wouldn’t care. Similarly, if you want to mention your ECs - link them to your subject. EG: I applied for languages, and I linked the fact I’m in an award winning film company to my interest in film as a way of exploring cultures and love of foreign film.

4

Thank you so much! This was very helpful. I know Oxbridge takes very few U.S. applicants, but do you think my chances would be boosted by my scores?

5

Also, do you know how going to Oxbridge for undergrad is seen in America? As in, would universities accept the credits/would employers look well upon it?

6

Still would like to know about American colleges, by the way, if anyone else has some input

7

I reccomend writing your essays about cooking because it will help you stand out. Don’t look generic, good luck

8

you are obviously very intelligent but ECs seem to be missing some umph - if you look at some results threads, you’ might see what I mean. I guess language seems to be your angle…

9

“I know Oxbridge takes very few U.S. applicants, but do you think my chances would be boosted by my scores?”

For Oxbridge, scores are a hurdle: once you are over the hurdle they are not as important as the interview & their own tests (TSA, for example). Between 2 candidates who are closely matched after interview, the higher TSA score could tip it, but a 2400 won’t tip it over a 2200.

“would universities accept the credits/would employers look well upon it?”

Do you mean would a US post-grad program accept an Oxbridge undergraduate degree? absolutely (if you were applying to med school there would be some specific hurdles though). Do you mean if you transfer part-way through to a US university would they accept the credits? I don’t know, but would imagine that it would be hard to figure out how to line them up, as they are structured so very differently. Employers view will depend a lot on the field, and what sort of graduates they are looking for.

For Ivy league schools, as dblazer points out you are very strong in the academics, but don’t have much in the way of leadership, and it isn’t clear what you have done with your summers. A one-off summer at Governors school tracks more JHU, not HYP. The dean of admissions at Princeton said ‘We don’t care what you do during the summer- just that you do something. And we want to know not just what it has meant to you, but how you are acting on that’. She went on to say that they read many essays about community service trips to a poor country, so standing out is hard.

This from Harvard: http://www.hcs.harvard.edu/womswim/recruiting/myths.html

10

Most of the schools that you listed do not have undergrad business (let alone int’l business) programs so you should be aware of which ones do and don’t when you apply. Also, I agree with @collegemom3717 that your planned service trip to a poor country won’t do much for you. Good luck with everything!

11

Good point, Falcon1. OP, if you want to study business, why apply to Ivies? Except for Wharton, none of these unis are particularly noted for business- and not all of them even offer it to undergrads. Is there any reason beyond getting in to the ‘biggest’ name you can to apply to them?

Remember that you don’t necessarily need to have a definite life plan to have discerned patterns about the intersection of what interests you and where your talents lie. You will need to think this through for the US universities anyway, to write the why this university essay, but it is important for you in figuring out what will fit you best. The Ivy league schools are rather different from each other- Cornell v Dartmouth? Brown v Columbia? UPenn v Princeton? Harvard v Yale?

Even once you get past a certain threshold of grades and scores (which you have), those schools are nearly lotteries, yet they actually do a better job than anybody wants to believe at choosing students who fit into their community (yes, there are outliers, but the point holds). You will do more to increase your chances of admission by learning about which one(s) is/are the most natural fit for you than by looking for more APs to take or scores to accumulate.

One thing that might help is thinking of your application as a narrative arc: how do the pieces of your life and accomplishments fit together into the developing story of you? why that university, that major? in what direction do you think you are headed? what role will university play in getting you there? and don’t forget: what will you add to the community?

12

I’m required to do a summer project by my school anyway, and it won’t take the whole summer (only going to be there for 2 weeks + there is a research component), so what would you recommend instead?
Also, how would one go about studying for the TSA?
Honestly I’m somewhat undecided but leaning toward business. I’m not exclusionary toward anything but Ivies, I understand they will always be a lottery. Also interested in living in a Northern city, that is just te kind of lifestyle I enjoy, so Ivies fit into that for the most part (yes I know Yale and Princeton are not urban, I just put them on there for kicks). I know my ECs are bad and that’s why I came on here to get some possible advice and see what my chances would be anyway, just out of curiosity.

I would also like to thank everyone for taking so much time to read my post and write all of this out, it has been really helpful and somewhat of a reality check for me and I really appreciate it.

13

If I could get some kind of internship with a businessperson would that be better? Also, is there any value in the trip I did last month last summer- staying in Spain for a month by myself and taking courses in Spanish, perhaps from a responsibility/language/foreign politics standpoint? It was not at all an exclusive program but could it still be material for an essay, or should I avoid it?

14

@melichrous‌,

I’m sure you realize that the objective parts of your application are superlative. Write strong essay, allowing your own voice, your own interests to come through, garner some great recommendations, and interview well, and you’ll have as good a shot as any, and better than the vast majority.

It wouldn’t be surprising if you got into most of the American schools to which you’re applying, and pretty shocking if you didn’t get into at least a couple.

By the way, special congratulations on the Gold on the National Latin Exams, especially the Perfect Paper. There is a special place in my heart for the NLE. My son got five Gold medals 8 - 12 grade, including two Perfect Papers, including one in Latin VI. He is now a classics concentrator at Harvard.

Good luck.

15

I’m a junior and in a similar boat as you (although I’m jealous that you can take that many APs as a junior!). Interested in continuing to read the replies to this.

16

Past papers (with solutions) for TSA Oxford are here: http://www.admissionstestingservice.org/for-test-takers/thinking-skills-assessment/tsa-oxford/preparing-for-tsa-oxford/

A past paper for TSA Cambridge (with solutions) is here: http://www.admissionstestingservice.org/for-test-takers/thinking-skills-assessment/tsa-cambridge/preparing-for-tsa-cambridge/

Again, I think some time doing research will pay off. The UK is really not for somebody who is ‘somewhat undecided’. You study only the subject you apply to, and (to quote a History tutor at Oxford): ‘we want you to love our subject as much as we do’. Go read the subject pages for E+M at Oxford (here: http://www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate/courses-listing/economics-and-management) and see if that looks like a happy 3 years to you. Go look at the Wharton program- does that look more or less happy to you?

“Also, is there any value in the trip I did last month last summer- staying in Spain for a month by myself and taking courses in Spanish, perhaps from a responsibility/language/foreign politics standpoint?”

On it’s own it mostly that says that you have parents who can afford to send you and that you probably have pretty good Spanish. Responsibility, no, especially if it was through a program. Fair or not, from an adcomm pov, it is just a slightly farther-away special interest summer camp. It only says foreign politics if you make that link in your essay (and if there was some awareness/involvement with it irl of course).

The big job in front of you is showing that you are maturing from a really good student who does really well on tests to a young adult with some ideas of your own as to where you want to go and what you want to do when you get there. So the value of the experience in Spain- or the service trip, or governor’s school, or work experience or whatever else you do, is in what you made of it, how it fits into your larger story. That’s why everybody here can give ideas and suggestions, but none of us can tell you what to do next. There is no single right answer to the story you are writing for yourself :slight_smile:

17

What are (most of) these people saying?? Your class rigor is insane and you maintained a perfect GPA, along with perfect test scores! Look up the Common Data Set for universities you’re interested in–those factors are usually the ones marked “very important”. I think your awards are pretty outstanding, and there’s nothing wrong with your ECs–could they be better? Of course, but they’re not bad. The only thing is what you’re doing over the summer; volunteering is great but overdone (what I’m saying is, if you’re doing it because you’re honestly interested in it, go for it, but if you’re doing it as an app boost, there are more unique things). I think an internship would be a good idea, and you could do other things as well. The research project sounds interesting. Try to show an interest in your major through your ECs/summer activities. Good luck! I would be very surprised if you didn’t get into quite a few of these top universities!

18

Maybe I should clarify- the project involves first doing research on anti-trafficking laws in the U.S. and other countries on the same level and then working with the organization to see how they could be applied in that country.

I feel like I should work on the internship then. Currently I cannot do anything as I am trying to prep for 7 AP exams… I was looking at the “outstanding extracurriculars” in the past results thread and almost had a heart attack to be honest.

Also, I forgot to mention that I live in an underrepresented Southern state- though not a poor area- if that make any impact at all. I’ve seen some people mention it.

Thank you itsmyusername for your optimism

19

@notjoe That is what I am hoping for. Thank you- and very interesting story about your son.

@hscruiser yes my school tends to be rather notorious for being very rigorous and having a lot of APs- we’re competing with the IB program nearby. Though, I wish my school offered AP Microeconomics.

@collegemom3717 I took a look at those TSA tests- quite unlike anything I’ve ever taken in the U.S., but I like them actually. The essays I could actually write extensively about.
I definitely need to do research- there is just so much information. I am also going on college visits this May so that should help.
I am definitely looking at utilizing my summer and trying to develop that story. Your quote about admissions at Princeton- I hope that’s true and it’s not too little, too late.

20

Fwiw, my D1 had a list of about 8 colleges, with 2 ‘definite’ favorites that she had visited (and even overnighted) at the end of Junior year. Over the summer she kept looking and researching, and in the autumn she ended up applying to 7 completely different colleges, in 5 countries plus the US. You have time!

The quote is true- I was there- and I believe she meant it. It’s why I am encouraging to look inside yourself, at who you are, at what is genuinely interesting and exciting to you.

Glad you enjoyed the TSA sampler. If you decide that you might want to go the UK route, sometime in June the ‘Oxford applicants for 2016 Entry’ thread will open over at the student room, the UK equivalent to CC (google all three words and you’ll find it). There are also threads on Americans Applying to UK Universities and Cambridge applicants for 2016. (they go by intake year, not graduation year, in the UK).

I have had 2 D’s do double history APs (US + Euro on the same day). Very tired hands at the end of it!

One last thing: you can go into business from any background - that’s what MBAs are for :slight_smile: If you really love business, as I said go look at Wharton. But if it’s not a passion, choose a place that will offer you something that is.