<p>HKToUs - I’ll think I’ll chime in on this. </p>
<p>Let me first say I appreciate your posts and I wouldn’t necessarily disagree that HYPS are a reach for me. </p>
<p>Obviously, making the IMO is a HUGE accomplishment – but the standard can’t be that you have to be superior to that in your ECs in order to be considered a match. If that were the case then there would only be a handful of people who could ever be considered a match. (I certainly haven’t seen in any thread someone with a superior EC to the IMO.) Thus, I just wouldn’t generalize from these two people - maybe there were other parts of their application that were simply too problematic. </p>
<p>Also, I did look through some of decision threads. And you’re right that at Harvard most of the accepted people had superior ECs. (Although I would say my academics were better than most. It was hard to find someone with perfect SATor ACT, ranked #1, perfect SAT IIs, and all 5’s on the AP that was completely shut out of HYPS). </p>
<p>So I was wondering, among HYPS, is there any difference between the schools on the weight they place on academics vs. ECs? </p>
<p>Also, how may people get a 36 ACT or 2400 SAT in any given year?</p>
<p>Lirazel - For Penn, it would be Arts & Science.</p>
<p>^ I remember reading that more people score a 36 on the ACT than a 2400 on the SAT despite less people taking the ACT. That’s probably part of the reason why many people think the ACT is easier.</p>
<p>If I were you I would take the SATs because you are applying to a lot of schools in the NE US where the SAT is the main test. Study hard and with your perfect ACT score, I’m sure you will do good.</p>
<p>Oh dear, oh dear. A lot of people getting on the OP’s back for having generic ECs, making it sound like she has no chance. lolz</p>
<p>Your stats place you above the 75th percentile at the schools you’re considering. Your ECs are average. Not bad, but unremarkable.</p>
<p>Solution? Write unique essays that convey your personality. Because it won’t shine through otherwise. You have the academics, now you have to show the adcoms that you’re a real, flesh-and-blood person. That’s all you need to do.</p>
<p>And apply EA to Yale.</p>
<p>(On the other hand. While your chances at HYPS are as good as anyone’s (which is not very good to begin with), I wouldn’t say schools like Columbia and UChicago are low matches, like somebody else did earlier.)</p>
<p>Ah, a fellow standardized test “perfect scorer” (lol). It’s good that you have 4 years of every EC (shows commitment), but there is a lack of leadership. That could hurt you when applying to Ivys. Legacy at Yale will help a lot, and with your stats, I could almost guarantee admission. It would be very helpful if you could also chance me. Good luck</p>
<p>Many people are accepted into HYPS based purely on academics. That doesn’t mean just 2400 SAT I, 2400 SAT II etc. That means amazing academic achievements like Intel winner or IMO team. So, without a doubt, those two IMO team members should qualify for that academics based acceptance. If I read correctly, they had very high SATs too, though that would be expected.</p>
<p>There is a guy in my school, who is one year older, who just got rejected from Harvard. His ECs are excellent; they’re almost at the level of being in a IMO team - class president; 2300+ SAT, 2300+ SAT II, 45/45 IB predicted, 44/45 actual achievement, world rank 18 in debating, won like 50 awards in debating and MUN; #1 public speaker/debater in the whole of Hong Kong (includes all age groups).</p>
<p>Not only are his ECs and achievements outstanding, he has been doing them for 6 years - showing commitment just like you. Now, if he has shown similar amount of commitment as you, has grossly larger accomplishments (I am sure you would agree unless there is something I have missed) and similar scores, he seems to definitely be superior in terms of his application, especially considering the weighting given to achievements and ECs at top colleges. So, if he didn’t get in, I really don’t see how you could possibly call yourself a match.</p>
<p>HKToUS- I didn’t realize you were from Hong Kong. You might want to consider that the standards for international applicants are higher than for applicants from the US.</p>
<p>Ignore the ■■■■■. Anyway… People have been veering way positive and way negative (if I did this in my first post, it was an allergic reaction to the gush. I’m very sorry, and should have known better) on you, OP, which I would find frustrating. Heck, reading it is frustrating! Good for you for being more level-headed than me. You have a better chance than the average applicant at most of these places, but not so much better as a lot of people have been thinking. (I wouldn’t be sure of Yale or any of them–it’s just so RANDOM! Random random ultra random. I doubt Yale will reject you unless off the waitlist, though.) Good luck!</p>
<p>And HKtoUS, you should seriously stop quoting the IMO team.
Yes, IMO is (correct me if Im wrong) the most prestigious math competition in the world.
But that does not mean that it is a guarantee ticket to acceptance for Ivies.
Why? Because it just is. Academic achievement used to be favored in most of the colleges. What now? they are trying to see a “bigger” picture of the applicant.</p>
<p>If you look at past chance threads (like class of 2014,) you will see that applicants from CC were being real nitpicky about little details, like, oh I had a B in first midterm in Chem… Will this ruin my chances???
Now I talk to them in real life, all of them talk about the same thing: It is the bigger picture, the bigger picture.</p>
<p>Now, your class president seems to have awesome stats. But there must have been something wrong in his application. I doubt that though. Well, that must mean Harvard maybe had too many people who did debating as an EC, so they did not want to fill up the class with people with debate as their main EC.</p>
<p>Now the main flaw of your argument is that, just because person A with higher stats did not get in, person B with lower stats will not get in.
It does not work like that. Adcoms are humans, just like us. Applications are half objective and half subjective.</p>
<p>Now if we would leave everything up to robots, that will be a different story. </p>
<p>But I strongly agree with you, that Harvard is nobody’s “match” school.</p>
<p>PS: Past IMO winners got into Harvard, pretty recent, actually like in 2004 or 2005.</p>
<p>Back to the original topic:
One of my friends has near-perfect academics (face it, in the big picture, a 2350 is just as impressive as a 2400) and limited extracurricular activities and was rejected by places like Duke, Dartmouth, Williams, etc.
One of my other friends has perfect academics (even more perfect scores than you, I’d say) and more extracurricular achievement, such as state-level medals in Science Olympiad, etc. and didn’t get into Harvard, Stanford, or MIT. Granted he got into Princeton, but still, that was the only HYPSM he got into with those kind of stats.</p>
<p>In the end, you have a shot at these schools. Not a great shot because your activities are a bit limited, but the chance is there. If your essays and recommendations are stellar, and the reader is having a good day, good things can happen :)</p>
<p>It is kind of depressing that all our effort through 4 years of high school, or let me dramatize it- our lives, are evaluated in 10 to 15 minutes by numbers and ECs.</p>
<p>But of course, those adcoms at Ivies had their jobs for more than 20 years now- they should be able to see the bigger picture in such short amount of time.</p>
<p>“But that does not mean that it is a guarantee ticket to acceptance for Ivies.”</p>
<p>What is your point? That is exactly what I have been saying…</p>
<p>“Now I talk to them in real life, all of them talk about the same thing: It is the bigger picture, the bigger picture.”</p>
<p>Once again, you seem to believe that you a belittling my point when you are actually reinforcing what I am saying. The OP does not have the ECs (a major part of the “bigger picture”) to even call HYPS a low reach (Yale may be an exception because of legacy).</p>
<p>“Now the main flaw of your argument is that, just because person A with higher stats did not get in, person B with lower stats will not get in.
It does not work like that. Adcoms are humans, just like us. Applications are half objective and half subjective.”</p>
<p>There are always exceptions but they are few and far between. We are not admissions officers and we are giving chances based on general trends… furthermore, there is nothing in his application that screams ‘exception’.</p>
<p>“Past IMO winners got into Harvard, pretty recent, actually like in 2004 or 2005.”</p>
<p>That was quite a while ago, first of all. Secondly, Harvard would want the best team for the Putnam, a undergraduate math competition that all universities want to win, and who better to choose than a US IMO team member, to accompany members from the teams of other countries. There is already a strong reason to pick this US IMO member which is only re-inforced by the fact that the US IMO team has performed strongly meaning the members are stronger than the members of most other IMO teams.</p>
<p>According to you, only Kim Ung-Yong should get into Harvard.</p>
<p>Look, no college wants to fill up their student body with 800scorers.
That is the simple fact.</p>
<p>Again, I go with the bigger picture method.</p>
<p>And I am not belittling your argument- I am [enforcing] it.</p>
<p>But you should understand that the method you are presenting argument is just ridiculous- you have an extremely small set of data- IMO winners (6 people) and you are comparing it to the nation.</p>
<p>I think that you (Cubsfan) know very well that your academics are impeccable. </p>
<p>The only thing you need to do is write excellent essays & assume some type of substantial leadership positions if possible. </p>
<p>There’s no telling how many 36/2400 students with 4.0 GPAs get deferred or rejected because of weak ECs. They want well-rounded individuals and you’re nearly there.</p>
You have a better chance than the average applicant at most of these places, but not so much better as a lot of people have been thinking. (I wouldn’t be sure of Yale or any of them–it’s just so RANDOM! Random random ultra random. I doubt Yale will reject you unless off the waitlist, though.) Good luck!</p>