Chances me for ED and RD

Colleges and Universities A-Z Vanderbilt University
1

<p>First of all, the title of the thread should be "Chance me for ED and RD." I'm a high school senior this year and want to know my chances for admission to Vanderbilt in the early decision pool. </p>

<p>Ethnicity/Background: I'm Asian (sucks for me lol), my parents are both educated and have degrees beyond college, and I also have two younger siblings. </p>

<p>Schools: I went to a public school my freshman year that was in another state then moved to TN and went to a private school in Nashville for two years, and switched to my local public school because it was much closer to my house and didn't cost 20K/year. My current school is in a very rich area and usually sends 8-10 people to Vanderbilt each year. </p>

<p>Grades (Huge weakness): UW-3.5, W-3.8 (I got A's and Bs' my freshman year, mostly A's and a couple B's my sophomore year, my junior year was pretty terrible and I got mostly B's with 2 A's and 2 C's.) </p>

<p>Class Rank: I did not have a class rank in my private school. At my current school, my class rank would be in the top 30% out of 400 if I got straight A's. I know that's terrible for Vandy where just about everyone is in the top 5-10% of their class. A question I have is if I should apply to ED 1 with my current grades, test scores, and recommendations and not have a class rank or wait till the first semester of my senior year is over in December and show I've improve a lot in terms of grades (all A's in 6 AP classes) but have a class rank that's much lower than the average accepted student. </p>

<p>Courses (Strength-sort of): I took all honors and advanced courses my freshman and sophomore year. I took AP Calculus BC (A: Semester 1, B: Semester 2) and AP Chemistry (B: Semester 1, C Semester 2) last year. I also took Honors World History, Honors Spanish II, Honors Physics, and Honors English II (I switched to a private school from a public school my sophomore year but did not have a good English foundation so I stayed behind one year in English). I took English III online this last summer and had a C average. In my senior year, I'm taking AP Physics B, AP Statistics, AP US Government, AP Macroeconomics, AP English Literature, and AP US History. </p>

<p>Test Scores (Strength): I didn't take the AP exams for my AP classes in junior year b/c I missed the deadline for registration. 780 Math II, ACT: 36, SAT: 2370. (Lol, test scores are my strength.) I'm taking the SAT Subject Tests in Biology and Physics in January and if I apply then, I'll send the scores to Vanderbilt as soon as I get them as additions to my application. </p>

<p>Extra-Curricular Activities (Strength):
Math Club: Team State Finalist (9th Grade), Regional 2nd and 4th Place (9th /10th Grade)
Played Piano for 4 years: Gold Star Winner (9th Grade)
National Honor Society Member (10th, 11th Grade)
Selected for Mu Alpha Theta Society (10th, 11th Grade)
Young Democrats (10th, 11th-Vice President)
Community Service-100 Hours (10th, 11th): Regularly delivering speeches and presentations in monthly religious meetings
Adventure Science Center (Nashville, TN): 40-50 Hours
USA Chemistry Olympiad Top School Score (11th Grade)
Speech & Debate (10th-12th): Speech and Debate Honored NFL Member (364 Speaker Points), Speech: Original Oratory (prepared speech on creativity) State 2nd Place (10th), Debate: Consistently Ranked in the Top 6 in TN (11th Grade)
Mock Trial Lawyer: Placed 2nd in Region (11th Grade)
National Merit Commended Scholar (12th Grade)
I might do Mock Trial and Model U.N. Team Member this year (fall). </p>

<p>Essay: I think of myself as a Renaissance Man because I've done lots of activities as a "politican, mathematician, scientist, and artist." I've not done too well in school not because I didn't have the ability or because I was lazy. It's just that my interests are so deep that when something falls outside of them, I just sort of shut off. I've trying to improve that in my senior year and show that since all my classes interest me, I can do really well in them, but also that I've learned my lesson about not working hard in things that are not your favorite things to do. A lack of knowledge haunts you everywhere you go if you don't diversify your education. </p>

<p>Recommendations: I'm a new student at my school, but am working hard and have already made an impression on my physics teacher. It's the beginning of school and I don't have all A's yet, but I'm working hard and studying for everything and I think I will. Hopefully, I'll be able to get my English teacher and another teacher to write me a good recommendation. </p>

<p>I know I have some gaping flaws in my application but please try to be nice. Would it be to my advantage to apply in November in ED1 where I don't have a class rank, have A's and B's for grades and not many AP courses, but have all the EC's, recs, and test scores, or should I wait till December and get better recs, do some good senior EC's, have all A's in a tough semester of 6 AP's but have only a top 30% class rank? If the better option is waiting till December, should I apply to EDII or RD?</p>

2

<p>Where you should start rather than asking for predictions on your admission odds (very unpredictable in your case) is in understanding a guesstimate of what you would have to pay to attend Vandy compared to your Honors college at UTKnoxville where you would surely be admitted and where if you focus you will stand out greatly. </p>

<p>You should have a short list of 5-6 schools you would be proud to attend and at least three of them should be likely admits/matches. You and your parents should be having that talk about what they can shell out annually vs what your CSS Profile and FAFSA may say. You should be examining if you are going to grad school. Are you going to borrow all the costs of grad school? (merit money is harder to find at grad school level). Are you going to be in college four years or seven years? You have the potential academically that could mean seven years of college, not four.</p>

<p>To give you an example the top public high school in America is Thomas Jefferson Gov School in Fairfax VA and hundreds of their grads must turn down Ivy quality offers because they can attend UVA for 20 grand a year. Thus there is a huge TJ contingency at UVA, strengthening the college daily. TJ students tend to ace their years at UVA and then move on to top grad schools. Ditto a phenom at UT…the honors college ends up with many students who can’t beat the pricetag with a stick and might spend the big bucks on bigger named grad schools later. This could happen to you…in that order. You could be the undergraduate stand out who goes to a top name grad school, and your peripatetic high school performace will be ancient history of no weight whatsoever. By the way, my Duke son in the work place is still required to put down his SAT ACT on many many job applications, so rejoice. </p>

<p>You may indeed be the person who nails a high GPA in college and leaves behind the spotty issues of high school (avoiding the AP exams, skimping on buckling down). </p>

<p>Do you think your tendency to scatter into varied interests would be better managed at a smaller college? What kind of social atmosphere will put you in the best frame of mind from age 18-22? Do you connect up well with college profs in small classrooms and then work in a more focused manner? Are large classrooms likely to play to your weaknesses in terms of delivering grades?</p>

<p>Your test scores are indeed a strength that indicate you can learn in challenging environments as long as you are at that place in life where you are well integrated re motivation and discipline.</p>

<p>The adcoms realize that people who were not very good at conforming well in high school re deadlines and assignments…can morph into power house college students. You must sum up in 2-3 sentences why you for instance would turn up with a C in AP Chem when students who were more industrious and less gifted could nail Bs and As. </p>

<p>Your class rank and grade issues will be harmful to you at schools like Vandy where there can be 25 thousand applicants. So you really ought to also be looking carefully for another school to “spend” your ED on and then think hard before choosing Vandy which is a bit of a gamble for you. Your grades are going to make a merit scholarship difficult to land although your SATs are going to be attention grabbers. There really is no reason you can’t do those SATIIs in the fall and Dec sitting (one at a time)…I think there is a deadline although my son with a 36 ACT Math didn’t like his SATII Math level 2 first score and he sent a December sitting to them in January…in general that is a bit OCD of him and was a stretch re being kosher.</p>

<p>You are not going to convince Vandy you have left your ways behind you easily so focus on addressing them in a forthright manner. For instance, I don’t think you are a Renaissance man but you may have been somewhat of an autodidact, and some introversion can go hand in hand with giftedness. </p>

<p>Do you have someone who you can talk to in your new school in guidance who can help you and speak for you regarding your sense of motivation for college academia? You need a reference for all your colleges about your potential, so get to know someone who will advocate for you.</p>

<p>Schools like Vandy permit optional Alum Interviews. But don’t be lazy and miss out on Alum Interviews at all schools that offer then with deadlines. Such interviews can be helpful. </p>

<p>Rather than feeling badly about the error of your ways in high school, I suggest you focus on your future and on a good essay that lets the staff know how you have grown in recent years. I also had a son that studied certain subjects at home that had no bearing on the classroom, but it made for good essays.</p>

<p>Do not beat up on yourself, but keep your expectations in check and your mind and heart flexible. Be brutally honest with yourself…ie would you do the work in large classes that were not as personal? Or would you work much harder at a school the size of Wake Forest or Furman? Smaller colleges tend to have professors that push hard for their best students and their grad school applications. I am a Furman grad and males with your test scores are sought after there, although your grades might reduce the merit aid they would offer and schools like Furman have less generous “sliding scales” on financial need than do schools like Vandy with bigger endowments. You could end up paying more for Wake Forest or Furman than for Vandy is my point, so you should be using your IQ to compile stats lists on financial aid and average profiles of last year’s admitted class.</p>

<p>Some of the best educations in this country are obtained at the top 30 liberal arts colleges in my opinion. Then you get to the bigger question…which of them give financial need aid that is significant? If you are full pay re your parental income, it won’t matter where you go except for the huge savings afforded at Honors at UT or Honors at UAlabama (if they don’t charge high OOS rates). In my opinion, Vandy does have very good class sizes and access to professors but you cannot compare Vandy Duke Emory with the intimacy of an education at places like Davidson, Bowdoin, Haverford, Grinnelll…where science classes are truly small and intense and the professor knows if you are not present. </p>

<p>Emory is an easier admit than Vanderbilt by far and it has wonderful classroom sizes and facilities. Widen your view and realize that your true proving ground is wherever you matriculate and you can make yourself stand out at any institution of your final choice.</p>

3

<p>Hello, I understand what you’re saying. I truly can have spectacular results in areas where I have a personal interest, but I truly am trying to change my approach to subjects I dislike (English and history) and doing assignments that I dislike in my favorite subjects (math and science). I realize I would probably fit well in a liberal arts college, but I live in the area and would love to go to Vanderbilt. I think my counselor sees me for who I am and believe that if I can perform very well this semester, he will be able to write a good recommendation defending my performance in past years and improvement this year. Do you think if my counselor puts in a good personal word to the Vandy admissions office and if my teachers write excellent recommendations for me, I’ll have any chance at all of getting in through the regular pool? Also, my dad is in the medical field and is able and willing to pay full for Vandy. I’ve checked out the FAFSA and have used the net price calculator. I’m not too interested in a scholarship b/c I know it’s impossible for me and am really only asking about my admissions chances. I thought I work better in small classes but this year I seem to be doing better in large classes. I am able to connect with teachers after a while and can have good relationships with them when I do. I know a few current Vandy students and have a general idea of the atmosphere on the campus. It makes sense my admissions chances anywhere are unpredictable b/c an admissions officer might see my test scores, low first three year grades but improved senior grades, and diverse ec’s as someone who has matured and deserves a chance or a smart wildcard who’s not good enough to give a spot to. In a lot of classes, my main problem has been doing well on tests but not doing important assignments which brought my grades down even in math/science (my interests). For instance, I got a B and a C in physics last year but have a solid A this year and am happily doing all assignments and studying for all tests this year. That’s another major problem, I tend to do poorly in environments where I’m not comfortable. In my current school, I feel very comfortable and from touring Vandy and what I hear about it, it really seems like a good fit for me that can enable my ability to combine with hard work to produce excellent results.</p>

4

<p>I really hope to turn around in college in terms of grades. I am embarrassed by my high school grades but not my individual mindset of pursuing my passions. I’ve come to realize that you have to diversify your knowledge and interests for you to truly get a good education. I think this year is the year to show that although I’ve been immature in the past, since I’m in 6 AP classes (basically a practice year of college), I truly can perform very high in all areas of formal education and be one of the best students at Vanderbilt in all departments if I’m given a chance now.</p>

5

<p>You say you avoid English and History…are you very math science oriented or are you also the first or second generation in a family that at one time spoke another language? Are you bilingual? All of these things that make you unique should come through in your essays as part of your journey and your personal family values.</p>

<p>I am so happy for you that your parents could swing full pay because this means that you will have choices in the RD round should you not be selected in the ED rounds. Personally, I think your test scores would overcome your class rank problems and the questions that your classroom grades raise at many fine colleges. College is hard! For everyone for different reasons of maturity and personality backgrounds. College classes at Work Forest (Wake) or Furman in sciences are just as difficult to make good grades in as many colleges ranked somewhat below Vandy. Vandy is now a college student body of equals. There is no bottom for curving grades, there is no echelon of students who will make poorer grades. But at other colleges, your talent will set you apart. That is, if you are happy there and well adjusted to the college of your choice.<br>
I am not at all trying to say you won’t be selected at Vandy. </p>

<p>But I will say you appear to also be “behind” in looking with an open heart and a fair mind at other great colleges. This concerns me. Because you are failing to set up a fall schedule that makes sense should you have to do RD all of a sudden when ED is declined. That possible outcome is present.</p>

<p>My sons had visited classes at least six colleges by this point in time, two state flagships in VA and a handful of private “match” colleges and a couple of “reach” colleges. They would have happily attended their state universities as honors students and they had crushes on their match colleges, although I admit one of my son’s took not getting into an Ivy way too hard.
You need to get out of town pronto and attend classes at Rhodes (curmudgeon’s daughter on CC went from there to Yale Med) or Haverford (I love Haverford sciences…the teachers are also addressed by their first names and a large percentage of the faculty live on campus—great community!). Your grades might be overlooked at Univ of Richmond or Wake, and your test scores would win the day.<br>
Your sense of comfort should not be limited only to Vandy is my point. Push yourself to get a visceral feeling of the classrooms in at least three more colleges quickly even if you ED to Vandy. It is too late to visit colleges by Thanksgiving in many instances because they do not allow class visitations in some schools in exam or mid term weeks. </p>

<p>Do not end up having to apply to colleges you never “dated” at all in Nov and December…that would be awful for your mental health and you will have missed deadlines for Alum Interviews at these colleges. If I was to make up your “go ahead and visit” list --and sign up for classroom visits plus Alum Interviews etc it would include (since you like being closer to Nashville) Rhodes, Emory, UT Honors, Alabama Honors (your test scores may have significance re costs there), and Haverford (reach college). Because you are male with high test scores, you are sought after by some (not all) liberal arts colleges. Some liberal arts colleges like Furman…get more female applicants than males who want huge football programs. I would also be looking at Georgia Tech (huge bounce in the job market if you can stomach the hard work and the tough grades).<br>
You have the next four years to recover your ground and to get your test scores and your performance in sync. Do NOT hyperfocus on Vandy. Get in the car on a Saturday soon and go see other colleges. </p>

<p>I do hope you get your first choice. My sons did not. Many students at Vandy had other first choices they didn’t get. The name of the game is to have a high opinion of others and other colleges and a good opinion of yourself and to be positive. You will be AOK</p>

6

<p>Oh no, I don’t want to go to Vandy because of the “elite factor.” Some of my other top choices are Indiana University and Emory University. I am fully aware that I’m not the strongest applicant to Vandy. I’ve visited other places and Vandy just feels like home. It also unfortunately happens to be the most expensive and difficult place to get into out of the colleges on my list. I’m only asking about my chances at Vandy to have realistic expectations. If I have good chances at Vandy, I’ll hope to get in. If I don’t have good chances, I’ll make other places my top choices. Of course, Vanderbilt is the place I want to go to most but it won’t be the end of all my dreams and hopes if I don’t get in. Yes, I am a math/science nerd, and yes there is another language spoken my house. In fact, there is English spoken so little in my household, that I say words from my ethnic language accidentally in place of English words. I’m a very strong Democrat and am agnostic in a very religious family. Nevertheless, I accept most of my cultural and family values and try to live by them every day. I’m a very unique person in my opinion. I love physics but hate writing lab reports (lol). In college, I want to major in physics and political science, then go to grad school for physics, go to a JD/MBA program next, and finally get and MD and do surgery training. I want to be a doctor, a politician, and a physicist. How can I can I convey all this uniqueness to colleges? Should I write another essay? Also, in all honesty, do you think I have a good chance of getting into Vanderbilt through EDII or RD after my first semester of senior year if I have all A’s in my AP classes, have participated in two ec’s, and have excellent recs from my counselor and teachers?</p>

7

<p>I definitely think your application will be pulled for discussion because of your test scores being so exceptional and because of the discrepencies in your classroom performance and potential. They will be looking for signs of good emotional IQ and wanting to make sure you are not the sort of student whose potential would be thwarted by lack of focus for whatever cause. So draw on you family values, explain your cross cultural life experience thus far, and project exactly how you would use Vanderbilt. They are used to first and second generation students now from many different family backgrounds and roots and they will listen so “don’t be a stranger.” Get your essay looked at by a neutral eye and get some feedback on it. For further proof of your sincere interest, apply for the Chancellor’s Scholarship. you may not get it but since it requires two extra essays, they will read even more from you and it may help your admission decision. Read up on the history of the Chancellor’s Scholars and read their blogs on how they are using their stipends and their privileges. More essays=More understanding of your candidacy.</p>

<p>glad to be reassured you are looking elsewhere. Indiana is a wonderful place to live for four years and so is Emory.</p>

8

<p>Thanks, faline2, but Vanderbilt is still my first choice above Emory and Indiana. I will definitely apply for the Chancellor’s Scholarship then. Do you think I should apply in EDII or RD?</p>

9

<p>To the other people, I’d really appreciate any insight/advice. I really appreciate faline2’s responses but I’d like a diversity of opinions.</p>

10

<p>If you want to up your chances, you should be ready for ED1, and you should be arranging or an Alum Interview locally to meet that deadline. Good luck~!!</p>

11

<p>Dr. Red, is a bad thing in a hospital, that means there is FIRE somewhere, Just to let you know. I agree every word faline has said, you are an identical twin to my daughter. She has 3.5 GPA and 2380 in SAT1. She does have 800 in MATH2 which I understand Vandy doesn’t care about (straight from adcom). Bottomline, your scores are VERY competetitive for Vandy and if you apply ED1 I am sure you are in and so is my daughter, I hope. As I heard Vandy cares about good scores.</p>