Chances of Admission and Scholarship (Updated Again)

Colleges & Universities A-Z Washington University in St. Louis
1

<p>Hello, I'm interested in seeing what my chances are for first getting into Washington University in St. Louis and then getting a full tuition scholarship for physics/math or bio/chem. Please also post which of the two I have a better shot at. I'm aware my grades are quite low and I don't have any spectacular summer activities, but please take my other credentials into account as you post on this thread. </p>

<p>Subjective:</p>

<p>Ethnicity: Pakistani American </p>

<p>Age: 17</p>

<p>Schools:
Large Public in IN (9)
Small Private in TN (10-11)
Medium Public in TN (12)</p>

<p>Family: Doctor-MD (Dad), Master's (Mom), 2 younger siblings</p>

<p>Recs (Potential): I hope to always be at the top of my class and do much better than my previous record, so I hope they'll be good. </p>

<p>Essays (Potential): One on being a Pakistani American Ahmadi Muslim (a minority group) Democrat in Tennessee, One on how I found a passion for learning purely for itself rather than as a tool to achieve material gains </p>

<p>Intended Major: Physics, Chemistry, or Math</p>

<p>Objective:</p>

<p>Grades (9-11): Semester 1 (9): 7A/1B, Semester 2 (9): 1A/4B/1C, Semester 1 (10): 5A/1B, Semester 2 (10): 5A/1B, Semester 1 (11): 2A/4B, Semester 2 (11): 4B/2C in All Honors Classes and 2 AP Classes: AP Chemistry (Semester 1: B, Semester 2: C+) and AP Calculus BC (Semester 1: A-, Semester 2: B)</p>

<p>Senior Course Load and Grades (Potential): All A's (100%) in AP Biology, AP Statistics, AP US Government, AP Macroeconomics, Honors English 4, Honors US History, Personal Finance, and Choir </p>

<p>GPA and Class Rank (Potential): Will be about 3.5 UW (9) and 3.97 W (10-11) (Top 20%) when I apply b/c I will only send in previous grades but after first semester of senior year, it will hopefully be 3.94 W and about 3.54 UW and I hope to be ranked in about the top 20-30% of 380 students </p>

<p>SAT: 2400 ACT: 36 SAT Chemistry: 800, SAT Math II: 800, SAT Physics: 800, SAT Biology M: 800, SAT US History: 800</p>

<p>AP Exam Scores: AP Calculus BC 4 or 5 </p>

<p>Extra-Cirricular Activities:</p>

<p>Speech and Debate (10-12): State 2nd Place (10), 350 Tournament Points</p>

<p>Piano (9, 11): Gold Star Rating in Region (9), Participate in Recital (9-11)</p>

<p>Mock Trial (11): Lawyer- 2nd Place in Region</p>

<p>Young Democrats (10-11): VP (11)</p>

<p>NHS and Mu Alpha Theta Member (10-12)</p>

<p>Community Service (10-12): 100 Hours in Mosque and Science Center; Local Library (12-Potential)</p>

<p>Employment (12-Potential): Work at Kumon as Math Tutor for 5 months </p>

<p>Math Club (9, 12): President (12-Potential)</p>

<p>Student Newspaper Member (12-Potential)</p>

<p>Research (12-Potential): Independent "Research" done in Science- mainly with a home telescope and in some higher math</p>

<p>Other Awards/Distinctions: Regional Math Test Top 5 (9, 10), National Merit Commended Scholar (12), State Math Problem Solving Test Top 10 (12-Potential)</p>

<p>Awards to be sent after initial submission of application (all potential): </p>

<p>Intel STS Semi-Finalist in Math (Sent in Late January)</p>

<p>USA Physics Olympiad Semi-Finalist and AMC 12 Top 1% (Mid-February)</p>

<p>USA Chemistry Olympiad Top in Region and USA Biology Olympiad Semi-Finalist (Early March)</p>

2

<p>You have a good chance being competitive in Washu or other top schools admission. Plus - ECs, SATs, ACTs; Minus - GPA, Grades, multiple HS. You have multiple potential positives but not a lot of proven track records. Very low chance for a Washu merit scholarship even lower for full tuition. It is only reserve for the top 1% of the 1%. and your stats is not at that level. Good Luck.</p>

3

<p>Theres about 20-30 scholarships for probably 3000 that apply and can get in. There’s no chance asking for chances on it.</p>

<p>As for admission, either wait list or acceptance, probably 50-50. </p>

<p>Brag threads are fun.</p>

4

<p>Doubtful re scholarships due to class rank. Almost everyone at Wash U is at least in the Top 10% of the class and for scholarships likely the top 1-2% plus test scores similar to yours. </p>

<p>Your strong SATs and Wash U’s emphasis on SATs probably save you in terms of admissions, and I would say you have better than a 50/50% chance and higher if you apply ED. But be prepared to address the question why you have such such mediocre grades given your obvious academic gifts. </p>

<p>In any event, Wash U has a solid debate team. Do you plan on participating in collegiate debate. That could be a nice hook for you. Not sure if they give debate scholarships though.</p>

<p>Does debate explain the rank? I know it can be pretty time consuming at the highest levels.</p>

5

<p>No one at all has higher than a 50/50 chance to Wash U.</p>

6

<p>^ Well, maybe if you have all the stats and your family has donated millions of dollars, but that’s about the only case I can think of…</p>

7

<p>Hey, guys, thanks for all the awesome feedback. Sorry I have not responded for some time. It seems that if I explain my involvement in debate (3 hours a day), it’ll explain why I had little time for homework but did well on tests until I lessened it in my senior year. I hope that will sort of explain the contrast b/w my grades and other things. Yes, I definitely intend to pursue debate in college. Would that give me any advantage in WashU admissions or is there any recruitment or scholarships for very good debaters?</p>

8

<p>I’m not so sure explaining about debate will help you. Admissions obviously wants you to show a passion for extracurricular activities, but I feel like they might find it a bit irresponsible to have spent so much time with speech and debate considering how much it seems to have affected your grades. In other words, since you already have a great list of activities, I think they might consider it unwise of you to sacrifice your grades by using so much of your time on speech and debate. (If S&D really is your true passion, you certainly could have dropped some of the other activities.)</p>

<p>I do not know of any scholarships related to speech and debate. As for your chances of getting a scholarship, it’s difficult to say. You obviously have very good extracurriculars and test scores but your GPA and class rank are quite low for Wash U. For general admission, I’d say you have a decent chance but you’re definitely not guaranteed to get in. As for a full scholarship, that’s a very silly question. It’s difficult enough to judge admissions and it’s even more difficult to judge scholarships. Based on the fact that the scholarship committees are looking for well-rounded students (possibly even more well-rounded students than the admissions office looks for), I’d say it’s highly unlikely. Even if you do wind up with a scholarship, there’s an extremely tiny chance that it would be for full tuition (assuming you applied for many scholarships). As somebody already said, most students at Wash U were in the top 10% of their class so top 20-30% is significantly low.</p>

<p>Furthermore, students applying for scholarships (especially full tuition scholarships) do not just send out an application and hope they get a full ride. They’re in for numerous selection rounds and interviews, not to mention weeks of compounding stress. How each candidate performs under these conditions, regardless of their academic credentials, is simply not something you can predict. So in my opinion, asking what are your chances of getting a full tuition scholarship is a request so unrealistic as to be considered almost ludicrous.</p>

<p>Sorry for the long post. Just sharing my thoughts.</p>

9

<p>As others have said, your chances for a merit scholarship through washu is lower than low.
Furthermore, if you’re shooting for one of the physical/life sciences scholarships, an essay about debate is probably more a hindrance than a help. </p>

<p>One piece of advice, that goes for all of your college applications: top 20% is not bad by any means, even if it’s low for washu. Do NOT spend valuable writing space “explaining” your grades to adcoms. Yes, there are people who have “low” grades that get into washu- that’s because they have something that makes them stand out. Use your debating background only to your advantage. </p>

<p>(to be fair, admissions is such a crapshoot that everyone admitted probably stood out in some way)</p>

10

<p>Haha, @Johnson181, your post was so straightforward it made me laugh (in a good way, sorth of with you, not at you).</p>

11

<p>Irresponsible to spend so much time on speech? The guy is one of the best debaters in the south. That is a gift like music or art. Yes, Wash U will take your debate into account. To ensure that happens contact the debate coach and tell him of your interest and give him a run down on your accomplishments (college coaches may not pay too much attention to the HS scene except in their own state, and unlike TN, MO is not a hot bed of debate). </p>

<p>Also, do not pay attention to those who say no one has even a 50/50 chance at Wash U. Its ED acceptance rate is over 30%, only 17% of the class goes in ED which means there is lots of opportunity for those applying that way, and Wash U focuses a lot on SATs, which is your strong suit. Wash U is very hard to get into, but it’s not yet at the Stanford/Harvard/Yale level in terms of admissions (although in my view, in many respects it surpasses them in quality teaching and undergrad experience).</p>

12

<p>It’d be great if this guy actually knew what he was talking about, but sadly, he doesn’t.</p>

<p>Yes, it’s somewhat irresponsible to have a 3.5 GPA and 20% in your class when you clearly have the capacity to do better.</p>

<p>No, the debate team isn’t an official wustl team, just a student run group, so it has no coach (officially through wustl, anyways). And even if they did, it’s not like the coach could get him in or anything, not even sports coaches can do that.</p>

<p>And finally, no, I don’t believe there to be many (if any) applicants with a greater than 50/50 shot, and if there are, I’m pretty sure OP isn’t one of them (no knock on you, just an effect of wustl’s somewhat random admissions process).</p>

13

<p>Wash U does have a coach, Jennifer Rigdon, and the fact that it is student run does not mean that the coach cannot help you with admissions. Wash U likes winning in debate as detailed in the article below.</p>

<p>In any event, Ryan MK, not interested in fighting with you. Actually really would be interested in your thoughts on getting into Wash U. My senior to be son, Peter, is going to apply, maybe ED. He has strong academics (all A’s with 9 Aps and 2250 SAT) and also is very interested in art, as well as pre-med. I love Wash U’s PNP major (phil, neuro, and psych). Do you know anything about it or the pre-med focus generally. Thanks.</p>

<p>The University’s debate team took first place in the National Invitation Tournament for small schools held at Knox College in Galesburg, Ill., March 19-21.</p>

<p>This is the first national championship for the University’s debate program.</p>

<p>The team of Jonathan Wolfson and Roxanna Mason beat a duo from McKendree College in the finals on an 8-1 decision. Sean Phillips and Abram Rose teamed to take fourth place.</p>

<p>Wolfson was also named the best individual speaker, while Mason and Rose took third and seventh places, respectively, in that category.</p>

<p>“The team is on cloud nine right now,” said Jennifer Rigdon, coordinator for speech and debate. “I couldn’t be more proud of them. They deserve all of the credit for their hard work and determination.</p>

<p>“It isn’t at all surprising that they won a national championship, given the talent of these students. I think we’ll continue to see great success from the speech and debate program in the future.”</p>

<p>The student-run debate team is funded by Student Union and the Office of Student Activities. The team started in the late 1990s and had no coach. Rigdon was hired in 1999 to coach the program, which now includes more than 30 students.</p>

<p>The team has been very successful. After winning the NIT, the National Parliamentary Debate Association ranks WUSTL No. 38 nationally out of 346 teams.</p>

<p>It also is the top-ranked student-run program in the country. Other student-run debate programs are housed at Harvard and Stanford universities.</p>

14

<p>That article is from 2004…</p>

15

<p>Yes, I saw that article, but I haven’t found anything more recent. Even if she still coaches them, she’s still not an official wustl coach. And regardless of how much washu actually cares about debate, telling the coach won’t increase your chances any more than simply listing your accomplishments.</p>

<p>Anyways - I’m somewhat familiar with the pre-med “program,” but not so much with PNP. I’d be more than happy to help however I can.</p>

16

<p>Um, @muckdogs7, were you referring to me as the “gifted” debater from the south? If so, how do you know who I am?</p>

17

<p>You said you’re from the South.</p>

18

<p>? Yes, but how does the person I asked know who I am and by debating ability?</p>

19

<p>He likely doesn’t have clue who you are, but the whole “second in state” thing is presumably enough to justify him calling you one of the best debaters in the south.</p>

20

<p>I think you might have a shot. I’m a dual scholar and I had a similar GPA and my scores were a bit lower. I had much more community service, however, I didn’t have nearly as many scholastic activities as you do. If you’re aiming for Compton scholarship or an area-specific scholarship, you will probably have a good chance. Are you doing some sort of Math/Science research or program this summer? I did, and I strongly feel that’s one of the main reasons I got the scholarships I did.</p>