Chances of American going to Oxbridge

Student Lounge International Students
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<p>Since I'm in the Alevel system, I've been looking up on UK admissions, specifically cambridge, cuz so far for me it wins over oxford except for that PPE course, not to mention cambridge is so pretty it'll make you weep. Anyway, for philosophy, the general policy is that they don't tend to do interview; in fact the cambridge prospectus do state that the department of philosophy don't do interviews. </p>

<p>For oxbridge, note the difference in structure of courses, esp. the fact that cambridge has a special tripos system [which you can go read up in their webpage] which basically means that you'd be learning a much wider range of stuff and narrowing down starting 2nd year to 3rd year. Other schools generally go for a more specific path, meaning that you'd have to apply for a major and stick with it in your 3 years.</p>

<p>For UK schools, note that the focus is definitely on ur course of study, so it's pure academic muscles plus a tiny little shove in the direction by your activities and competitions etc. Would help terribly if you can prove that you've had long-term interest in the subject. </p>

<p>So to bring to a point that everyone applying for UK should know, you should NOT apply for a few majors that's different from each other. [for those who don't know, applying to UK requires you to apply for a school & a specific major in that school per option. oxford & cambridge are mutually exclusive. Also if you apply for schools w/ multiple colleges, state the college you're applying to as well.] Meaning for example if you apply for philosophy, try not to apply for chemistry and literature, but instead stick to majors that are similar to each other. The reason is that you'll be submitting the same essay for all your application [they use a central system], and generally you'd have to aim every bit of your application to point towards your interest in a particular area of study. Would be quite hard to justify why you can have so many serious interests in such different areas.</p>

<p>lastly, putting 'open' under college choice for oxbridge will increase ur chances, but if you're picky about how ur school/dorm will look, or more importantly, who takes you for tutorials, then go check out which college you'd like to apply to...</p>

<p>for money issues... I'm aware of people who's on scholarship over at cambridge, but it's relatively rare. Try out for UK scholarships offered by companies and/or organisations. There's a central portal for them though I've misplaced the address...</p>

22

<p>
[QUOTE]
Anyway, for philosophy, the general policy is that they don't tend to do interview; in fact the cambridge prospectus do state that the department of philosophy don't do interviews.

[/QUOTE]
</p>

<p>Departments don't do interviews - but the colleges DO! the interview is the most important part of the application process. I'd be amazed if you can find anyone who got in without an interview. </p>

<p>If someone has told you there will be no interview, you have been ill-advised.
see the Cambridge web-site</p>

<p>Interviews</a> at Cambridge

[QUOTE]
The University of Cambridge interviews the majority of its undergraduate applicants.

[/QUOTE]
</p>

<p>cambridge Philosophy entrance requirements page - note "test at interview" means there must be an interview
Undergraduate</a> courses: Philosophy admissions tests and written work</p>

<p>Reading the university web-site is always more informative and relying on random rumours. I highly recommend it.</p>

23

<p>^^Putting an open application does not increase your chances of getting in. It first depends on whether you even receive the offer from the university.</p>

24

<p>Do you guys think I have a chance of getting into the PPE program at Oxford. </p>

<p>2190 SAT: </p>

<p>790 Math
730 Critical Reading
670 Writing</p>

<p>SAT II's
800 on Math 2
800 on US History</p>

<p>GPA=3.969, all A's except a B in Calc</p>

<p>All 5's on AP's
World History
Biology
Chemistry
English Language
Spanish Language
US History
European History
Calculus BC
AP Music Theory</p>

<p>I know they don't look at EC's per se, but I participate in policy debate extensively. Policy debate subjects are nearly identical to PPE in that you are constantly debating the year's resolution from economic, philosophical, and political standpoints.</p>

25

<p>oh thanks then, I'll manually update that prospectus from last year; I actually thought I'd hit upon a interesting observation when I read that line there which said no interview for those applying for philosophy.</p>

<p>Cambridge interviews are conducted by profs, as far as I know, the last time I went over to cambridge and sat in for a talk on admission. </p>

<p>regarding open application... I heard from a student over at cambridge who was teaching attachment courses over the summer break that open application do raise chances, though not significantly. </p>

<p>The thing with cambridge is that it's made up of colleges that's all quite independent. So whatever the central admin says, it many not apply to some of the colleges. If I'm going to look at cambridge, I'll go check the college webpages just to be sure. Just look at the divided opinions regarding the new subject Knowledge and Inquiry set up in Singapore last year. The representative over at Singapore told us that the central cambridge admin says it'll get same treatment as other subjects, but added that the individual colleges may not agree to that decision anyway.</p>

26

<p>Stats are important at Oxbridge so far as the initial screening for who gets an interview, but after that it's essentially all down to the interview... watch the recent movie / play 'History Boys' for an amusing take on the interview prep that students go through over there. </p>

<p>Compared to US schools, Oxbridge is concerned about finding people who are brilliant in their subjects. If you're an introvert but the best 18 year old (insert subject) in your country then they'll want you. If you have tons of ECs but are just 'average' with your academics or don't show a true passion in what you do, they'll probably pass.</p>

<p>Also, be aware that Oxbridge generally considers a US high school degree to be inferior to the level of education achieved by most Brits of the same age (and there is some truth in that fact) so you've really got to demonstrate that you're on top of your game...</p>

27

<p>take it from me, I was an Oxbridge applicant to Oxford, PPE. PPE is one of the most popular one, many british apply for it. I never regret that I applied to Oxford despite all the things my teachers recommended -they prefer me to apply to cambridge.(they said Cambridge is the one that judge on ability). Just bear in mind that your application must go through ucas by oct, 15. Open application doesn't increase your chance of getting in and PPE does require applicants to take a test before they decide whether or not u have an interview. Make sure that your school will register for you so that the test papers can be sent to your school so u can take it there, otherwise u might have to come to Oxford. The PPE test I took consisted of 50 questions (multiple choices but god, the questions are very long) about Philosophy, Politics, Maths and Economics.</p>

<p>Although your SATs look great but bear in mind, they will look at your previous records. I was hit by my GCSEs, they weren't good enough. When I got to Oxford, I was horrified. I dont know how to put it but as I got to the exam room, I was surrounded by "geeks" n "nerds". During the exam, the huge chinese in front of me stepped on my feet, I was in pain but could not shout. Anyway, Oxford is a nice city but u do get the vibe of students either being nerds or r upper class while cambridge is kind of more friendly. But I dont regret for applying there. If i do it again, I'll still go for ppe at Ox.</p>

<p>Oxford judges you more heavily on your academic records since year 10 (GCSEs). If your year 10 is not straight As then your chance of getting in will be slimmer. History and maths are highly recommended since no previous study is required. But bear in mind that students apply for PPE will normally study maths, history, gov n pol, economics in their A levels and surely much more in depth than US high school. </p>

<p>u should prepare some knowledge about the british politics system as well cause after all, oxford is in England. Also be ready to be pooled, If the college u apply or assigned cant admit u (as they exceed their quota - yep, they have a limit of the number they can admit, college can borrow from each other though)and if they value u, they put u in the university pool. If other colleges still have places, they will look in this pool and kind of "fish" 4 u. Each college only admits about 5-8 applicants any way and there're about over 1000 PPE applicants to Oxford every year.</p>

<p>The interview (if u hav to go) will require u to stay there about 3days may be more and u should have 2 interviews, one of the interviewer should be ur supervisor next year and they will see if u hav the ability and whether they want to teach u.</p>

<p>P/S Cambridge offers more scholarship than oxford and Oxford rarely gives scholarships</p>

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<p>So reika, are you going to refuse to go to an interview if offered one then? they will jyust reject you if you don't turn up.</p>

29

<p>kudos to van_do for his insightful post on Oxford....i'll do sth similar for Cambridge</p>

<p>generally, Cambridge has a slightly higher profile, receiving more applications hence accepting more candidates from former british colonies which operate the A-level system (aka the Cambridge examination system) e.g. Hong Kong, India, Malaysia, Singapore etc., hence A-levels may seem to give you an edge (whether its cause or effect is unknown)....Oxford is more popular in the U.S./China etc. due to the rhodes scholarships/oxford dictionary (the latter sounds kinda queer but trust me, its true lol), so international qualifications like IB/SATs may work better for international applicants (again, not sure if its the cause or effect)</p>

<p>while both institutions are great all-round, Oxford has the edge over artsy subjects e.g. classics, PPE, english, history, languages, while Cambridge is more established in engineering, sciences, medicine, economics etc.</p>

<p>theres also some difference in the structure of courses and exams, Oxford offers many more courses and much more specific and somewhat interesting course combinations (around 50, there're 7 courses with history, 7 with philosophy etc.), and in-line with other UK unis, u choose a major and stick with it for 3 years....Cambridge on the other hand offers half the number of courses (around 25), split into general fields like economics, history, natural sciences, you'll start with a wider base and proceed to concentrate in a certain area after your 1st/2nd year (e.g. for natural sciences, u'll study all the sciences in general before specialising in physics/biology/chemistry in your 2nd/3rd year)....in terms of exam structure, Oxford has 2 exams, mods (mid 2nd year) and finals (end 3rd year), while Cambridge operates on a tripos system (one exam end of every year), i'm not too sure about Oxford, but its quite possible (though still not as easy as US unis) to change subject combinations via the tripos system (the 2nd and 3rd year exams are the ones that determine your major, so its possible to switch course combination after the 1st year) </p>

<p>Oxford resides in a bigger city, so u'll have more of the hustle and bustle and less of an enclosed feeling (the city comes before the university)....whereas for Cambridge, its an extremely quaint little town with impeccable sights and a relaxed pace of life...check on some pics below
<a href="http://www.cba.ua.edu/%7Ejlee/images/Cambridge_college.JPG%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.cba.ua.edu/~jlee/images/Cambridge_college.JPG&lt;/a>
Cambridge</a> University on Flickr - Photo Sharing!
Garret</a> Hostel Bridge, Cambridge on Flickr - Photo Sharing!
<a href="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e9/Kings_College_Cambridge_Great_Court_Panorama.jpg%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e9/Kings_College_Cambridge_Great_Court_Panorama.jpg&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>application-wise, its online via UCAS, u fill in your grades and details, submit the same personal statement (1 essay, no topic) and same teacher reference for all of your choices (u can only apply for a max of 5 schools, which honestly makes much more sense that the us system whereby everybody spams 20+ schools leading to huge waiting lists and total unpredictability of admissions)</p>

<p>bear in mind for the more popular subjects, there're generally additional entrance tests (LNAT for law, BMAT for medicine, STEP for maths, TSA for PPE, the latter which ironically enough is managed by Cambridge) and written work requirements (generally for artsy subjects like history, english etc.)...they are used as additional indicators of academic potential/achievement because A-levels/AP is notoriously famous for inflation of grades and the inability to differentiate between the good and the best</p>

<p>still, the most impt part of your entire application (alot of students and even the profs say its the entire application that matters) but trust me, the interview IS the make or break (provided that other parts of your application dont break you first lol)....because ultimately oxbridge are looking for ppl who are likely to benefit the most from their tutorial system, hence the interview is specifically designed to mirror a typical tutorial session so as to let the tutors find out if u're suitable applicant....say an interview for PPE or natural sciences, the interviewers arnt there to hear u regurgitate some scripted answers, nor are they looking for some impeccable grasp of current affairs or scientific knowledge which is rather impossible (a complete lack of knowledge will hurt you though as it shows u've no passion)....what they're looking for is creativity and originality of thought, your ability to draw interesting links and deductions which ultimately makes a tutorial stimulating and engaging for both your tutor and yourself....imo, the best way to prepare would be to take a genuine interest in your choice of subject, read up on it, think about issues relating to it etc., and let your passion shine thru during the interview</p>

<p>as for scholarships, as i said in my previous post, Cambridge does offer many grants and bursaries to international students (need-based) but its unlikely to cover the full sum so u'll need to fork up a large part of it...but unless u're the type that qualifies for a full/substantial ride at US colleges, costs arnt as astronomical as you think at oxbridge (inclusive living costs, 3-year at oxbridge typically costs US$126k, and for my case, the bursary covered slightly less than 1/3 of it)</p>

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<p>
[quote]
UK admissions are highly numbers-based.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>That's true at many universities in the UK, but not so much at Oxbridge. What will get you into Oxford is the interview. The Oxbridge interview is roughly equivalent to a job interview, in that it is a primary method of selection for candidates, as opposed to most US interviews which are simply not that important unless you are at one end of the bell curve or another.</p>

31

<p>
[quote]
in terms of exam structure, Oxford has 2 exams, mods (mid 2nd year) and finals (end 3rd year), while Cambridge operates on a tripos system (one exam end of every year), i'm not too sure about Oxford, but its quite possible (though still not as easy as US unis) to change subject combinations via the tripos system (the 2nd and 3rd year exams are the ones that determine your major, so its possible to switch course combination after the 1st year).

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Science majors at Oxford studying e.g. Physics or Chemistry are normaly required to take final written exams every year. Arts/humanities students on the other hand normally take only two sets of finals, usually at the end of the first and third years. </p>

<p>Keep in mind that 4-year courses (leading to an integrated bachelor's/master's degree) are now available in most physical sciences as well as in mathematics and computer science. In particular, ** all ** Oxbridge engineering courses now last 4 years in contrast to the older 3-year British BEng.</p>

32

<p>If I just did AP Calculus BC, AP Physics C, AP European History and one AP Economics is that enough? Would straight 5s lead to a interview being granted? Or is it SATs + APs? How many APs do they recommend? Also as I'm doing AP Calc BC as a soph and AP Physics as a soph, I'll end up doing higher levels of math and physics in 11 and 12. Would that be an advantage for Oxbridge?</p>

<p>Sorry for all the questions guys, but thanks.</p>

33

<p>There's no magic formula, but those stats certainly sound decent. I think they'll probably care more about the APs than the SAT since the APs align better with the A-level exams that the British students are judged by (they don't have an equivalent to the SAT). I don't know about Oxford, but I know Cambridge does have an office in New York City and I think they can do interviews there for American students to shorten the distance one has to travel, although don't quote me on that.</p>

<p>Also, as has been mentioned earlier Oxbridge interviews are proper academically rigorous affairs... not the sort of fluffy thing generally found in the US. Because of the tutorial system style of teaching used at Oxbridge, they want to see that you know your stuff and can discuss it intelligently and defend your opinions when challenged.</p>

34

<p>Yeah thanks rocketman08. Do they consider GPA? Because I go to Andover where the grade deflation is notorious as its such a tough school and I'm not sure they recognize it as its not British. </p>

<p>I'd apply to Cambridge as I'm thinking of Law or Economics + Math.</p>

<p>So its just for everyone's sake this time - SAT Is + APs (At least how many?) + GPA (?) + Interview (which is british/actually not a promotion as opposed to american)</p>

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<p>I'm sure they'll look at your grades, but I think the APs will be the most important as it gives them a standardized metric whereas GPA can vary quite a bit. If you get 5's on all your APs then it's quite clear you know your subject matter, regardless of what your school's grades say. The UK system uses lots of standardized tests called A-levels (AP style subject tests) to evaluate students.</p>

36

<p>
[quote]
If I just did AP Calculus BC, AP Physics C, AP European History and one AP Economics is that enough? Would straight 5s lead to a interview being granted? Or is it SATs + APs? How many APs do they recommend? Also as I'm doing AP Calc BC as a soph and AP Physics as a soph, I'll end up doing higher levels of math and physics in 11 and 12. Would that be an advantage for Oxbridge?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>There is no precise answer to your questions, but, from what I know about the AP program, Calculus BC and Physics C are similar in content to the A-level calculus and physics curriculum and should be probably mandatory e.g. for a prospective engineering major. Keep in mind though that, depending on your intended course of study, Cambridge colleges will also require knowledge of other math topics besides elementary calculus , e.g. vectors and analytic geometry in 3-D, probability/random variables, more advanced differential/difference equations (second-order linear equations with constant coefficients for instance), and numerical methods. For more information, check the A-level "Further Maths" syllabus.</p>

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<p>Thanks Bruno123 and I think I probably will need to as I'd like to do Math + Economics at Cambridge or Law.</p>

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<p>From what I've gathered, the best option for someone in America considering an Oxbridge education is to do the IB. Oxford and Cambridge are much more confident on giving offers to IB students, as they do that on a regular basis to UK/EU students. I believe one reason for this is that in IB tests the grades aren't inflated, as getting a 7 on an IB test usually requires being at the top 5-15% (depending on the subject and year) of all test-takers, whereas in AP tests a much larger portion get a 5. </p>

<p>Pembroke College, Cambridge
"Candidates should be aware of a possible mismatch between the broad liberal arts curriculum of the North American High School and the specialist emphasis of British degree courses. Very few students enter a Cambridge College directly from a US High School. The Cambridge Colleges admit about 3000 students each year; last year only six of these offers were made to US citizens, conditional on SAT and Advanced Placement scores. Entry to Cambridge is at least as competitive as for Harvard, Yale etc and we would expect two or three APs in addition to a combined SAT score of at least 1300."</p>

<p>"Candidates who have the chance to take International Baccalaureate examinations are warmly encouraged to do so. This is likely to increase our confidence about setting a conditional offer."</p>

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<p>So really the very minimum is a 1300 SAT score where in reality those 6 students would have done 5 or 6 APs plus a 1500 SAT score. </p>

<p>So for ECs they look at ECs based on economics or math related stuff like internships, math club etc...Or do even those things not count? </p>

<p>Confusing but yeah, very intriguing...</p>

40

<p>EC is a relatively minor factor ...grades are the pre-requisite, interview the main selection criteria</p>